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08-01-2015, 10:05 PM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Well should have said get a catcher or buy. And I don't mind paying for pitching but it is still a position of strength in the organization. And the Braves are still going to have be mindful of the spending. We are going to have to buy a bat probably for a corner outfielder and depending on how Olivera does at 3rd maybe one for that position as well. Those 3 pitchers you named are going to be in very high demand and unless we can get one at good value it's almost a guarantee that we can't match a big dollar club. And for all the complaining about a 30 year old Olivera those pitchers are the same age. Granted he still has to prove himself in the bigs like they no doubt have but $20 mil per year is the start for those guys. Now if we are trading away pitching this offseason to get a controllable bat then we can consider a pitcher but I think I still work on elevating the position players, catcher and bull pen first.

And in reference to your post right above that, you were talking about one game with Wisler and question if he can be a starter. Forgetting the other games he pitched really well in. Knee jerk and that's not the first time. When Peterson was hitting well the first half of the year you were all for getting rid of Peraza. That's what I mean about taking small samples to voice your opinion on a player. They will have bad stretches. All players do. Especially young guys. I do think he is self correcting some right now. But Peraza didn't look like he was ready for next year either.

I have no doubts that I knee jerk. I'm a hardcore braves' FAN. I feel like hart had a hard on for Olivera and the Dodgers took hart to the cleaners for that love of a player. I hope I'm wrong. I want to be wrong. I just don't feel I am at this exact moment haha
08-01-2015, 10:06 PM
msstate7

Oh and I would've been much happier using wood for lucroy. Re-sign uribe as a stop gap. Give peraza a shot at 2b
08-01-2015, 10:10 PM
msstate7

Shoeless and really... You guys should check out www.chopcountry.com

It's a great Braves' board in this same format. Thanks again, smoot
08-01-2015, 10:24 PM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

Oh and I would've been much happier using wood for lucroy. Re-sign uribe as a stop gap. Give peraza a shot at 2b

Brewers were not dealing him. Can want him but they were not getting rid of him. So that is a moot idea. And there are other guys out there you just have to find the right partner willing to deal but we may have to over pay for a great catcher if that's the route you go. Rather get a good defensive catcher who can handle a staff but is limited offensively. If I can get an equal value or give up slightly over value if it's a great catcher thats great but we don't have to do that.
08-01-2015, 10:28 PM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Brewers were not dealing him. Can want him but they were not getting rid of him. So that is a moot idea. And there are other guys out there you just have to find the right partner willing to deal but we may have to over pay for a great catcher if that's the route you go. Rather get a good defensive catcher who can handle a staff but is limited offensively. If I can get an equal value or give up slightly over value if it's a great catcher thats great but we don't have to do that.

The problem with going with a defensive catcher is we have too many holes in our lineup. Simmons can't be counted on offensively. Peterson is flopping. We need offense.
08-01-2015, 10:41 PM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

The problem with going with a defensive catcher is we have too many holes in our lineup. Simmons can't be counted on offensively. Peterson is flopping. We need offense.

And since we don't have a ready bat in the minors we will have to buy or trade for one. That's why I said that is where I would look this offseason more so than an ACE pitcher. You wrap up $150-200 mil in one of those three high profile pitchers you mentioned earlier then you will have to sacrifice securing premium bats through free agency. You will have to go the trade route almost exclusively to hopefully get someone and limit what you will get at catcher as well. But getting a stop gap at 2nd (if Olivera sticks at 3rd at about the same price Uribe would have cost per year) a good catcher and big outfield bat can be doable with the combination of free agency and trades.
08-01-2015, 10:52 PM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

And since we don't have a ready bat in the minors we will have to buy or trade for one. That's why I said that is where I would look this offseason more so than an ACE pitcher. You wrap up $150-200 mil in one of those three high profile pitchers you mentioned earlier then you will have to sacrifice securing premium bats through free agency. You will have to go the trade route almost exclusively to hopefully get someone and limit what you will get at catcher as well. But getting a stop gap at 2nd (if Olivera sticks at 3rd at about the same price Uribe would have cost per year) a good catcher and big outfield bat can be doable with the combination of free agency and trades.

If Olivera sucks at 3b, we're done. We've went all in on him. If he doesn't pan out, we'll be picking top 10 again next season.
08-01-2015, 11:01 PM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

If Olivera sucks at 3b, we're done. We've went all in on him. If he doesn't pan out, we'll be picking top 10 again next season.

No he could still play 2nd and at his salary it is much less than a significant upgrade for 3rd. And if he does stick it is at a very good value.
08-01-2015, 11:01 PM
msstate7

Found this interesting...

David price era last 3 years...
'15 = 2.53
'14 = 3.26
'13 = 3.33

Zimmermann...
'15 = 3.36
'14 = 2.66
'13 = 3.25

Grienke...
'15 = 1.41
'14 = 2.71
'13 = 2.63

Wood...
'15 = 3.54
'14 = 2.78
'13 = 3.13

Wood is 24. I really hope we don't regret trading him
08-01-2015, 11:03 PM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

No he could still play 2nd and at his salary it is much less than a significant upgrade for 3rd. And if he does stick it is at a very good value.

Money wise yeah. You've got to look at what peraza and wood do though. If wood keeps pitching well, we really screwed ourselves big time if Olivera sucks
08-01-2015, 11:17 PM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

Money wise yeah. You've got to look at what peraza and wood do though. If wood keeps pitching well, we really screwed ourselves big time if Olivera sucks

And if....it's all hypothetical at this point. What if Olivera does hit close to .300 with 20+ hr. What if wood blows his arm out again. It's all a gamble and yes they have made a big gamble. But none of that means we should be in the Zimmer, Price, Greinke sweepstakes.
08-01-2015, 11:23 PM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

And if....it's all hypothetical at this point. What if Olivera does hit close to .300 with 20+ hr. What if wood blows his arm out again. It's all a gamble and yes they have made a big gamble. But none of that means we should be in the Zimmer, Price, Greinke sweepstakes.

If Teheran rebounds and miller keeps it up, I'm still not sure wisler/banuelos/Jenkins/folty/Perez can give us the innings or production to help us win the east. I hope winning the east is the goal next season. I'd like to add a veteran starter even if he's not the level of zimm, grienke, or price.

Oh and if Olivera gives us .300 and 20 hr's, I'll be estatic
08-01-2015, 11:38 PM
shoeless joe

For some reason I get the feeling the braves are going to go hard after price this winter...may be way off base but i could see it happening.

I'm not gonna get up or down on hart rite now...gotta let it play out and see where it goes. At this point he could be a genius or a dumbass.
08-01-2015, 11:43 PM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoeless joe

For some reason I get the feeling the braves are going to go hard after price this winter...may be way off base but i could see it happening.

I'm not gonna get up or down on hart rite now...gotta let it play out and see where it goes. At this point he could be a genius or a dumbass.

I think we'll go after a top starter. We have plenty of money to spend and we now have a hole in our rotation
08-01-2015, 11:43 PM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

If Teheran rebounds and miller keeps it up, I'm still not sure wisler/banuelos/Jenkins/folty/Perez can give us the innings or production to help us win the east. I hope winning the east is the goal next season. I'd like to add a veteran starter even if he's not the level of zimm, grienke, or price.

Oh and if Olivera gives us .300 and 20 hr's, I'll be estatic

And honestly I don't think Olivera will give us 20+ bombs. I think he has a better shot at .300. But he could be .270-.280 with 15 hr which is still good value for his salary offensively. Wood is think trends down some as well but who knows. As far as Peraza, I think he will be an avg to good player but right now he doesn't look like a lead off to me because of his low OBP. That has always been an issue and his upside value has always been as a lead off. But he gets that straight and it could hurt and I wish Albies was closer but maybe the office see him being ready for 2017. His development is also key on whether this trade makes sense. He looks like a potential really good lead off man. Time will tell.
08-01-2015, 11:52 PM
msstate7

Oh and I guess it's possible minor is the rotation next season
08-02-2015, 12:00 AM
Really Clark?

If I look at starting pitching, and maybe club does go after someone big, but I think I made look at someone like Mike Leake. Young and the last two years and this year look good. I think he someone we might could get a little more reasonable and be solid. But again I'm probably putting a premium for a bat over a starter right now.

As far as Minor goes, if I can get some good starts out of him it's a bonus and sell as soon as I can get a descent return.
08-02-2015, 12:05 AM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

If I look at starting pitching, and maybe club does go after someone big, but I think I made look at someone like Mike Leake. Young and the last two years and this year look good. I think he someone we might could get a little more reasonable and be solid. But again I'm probably putting a premium for a bat over a starter right now.

As far as Minor goes, if I can get some good starts out of him it's a bonus and sell as soon as I can get a descent return.

We'll have to pay what 5.5 million to keep minor?

I like leake
08-02-2015, 12:23 AM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

We'll have to pay what 5.5 million to keep minor?

I like leake

Something like that but he is definitely on the verge of not getting back to form. Have to see.
08-03-2015, 01:26 PM
msstate7

I was thrilled to see Teheran pitch so well on the road yesterday. If Teheran keeps it up and bird pitches well tonight, I'll feel better about trading wood assuming Olivera is the real deal

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