THE 2020 MSU Football Recruiting Talk Thread

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msstate7

Will we? We aren't beating auburn, aTm, Bama, and LSU with recruiting. We'll have to beat them with experience and coaching. We can't outcoach or out talent bama, so cancel them off the list. aTm has upgraded coaching and is in the process of upgrading talent. LSU is staying an elite recruiter, but they do have coaching question marks. Auburn is a great recruiting program, but terribly inconsistent.

I look at the recipe you laid out as OM's, but they topped out even higher than top 15. They had a dynamic offense with a good coach. They did beat Bama, but it still didn't get them a west title. The grind of the sec west takes supreme talent, great coaching, and luck to win the west over saban. I don't see it happening for us as long saban is there

---

If we recruit every year inside the Top 25 with 1 out of 4 being Top 2", Moorhead wins more games over 9 years than Mullen did.

Moorhead is in a crap spot honestly. He's got 6 programs in his division that spend more money in recruiting and at least 4 that spend way more money on coaching.. But his predecessor maximized the output far above what we should reasonably get from what Mullen brought in.

But Mullen only averaged 7 regular season wins per year. I don't know how long our fan base would keep Moorhead if he averaged 8 regular season wins per year but never won 10 regular season games. That would be a major improvement for our program to average 8 per year, but with the strength of Bama, LSU, Auburn, and TAMU it's highly conceivable that could be his path the next 5 years.

Moorhead is going to have it tough at MSU. I can't find anyone that gives me a logical reason why we should expect to consistently beat the 4 teams mentioned. They spend way more than we do in all areas. They recruit way better. They make more money. They have much greater football history and they have better coaches. Now I know we develop talent better, but that's not really measurable.

For Moorhead to come in and win an average of 8 games would be big for us. But I don't know that our fan base will want him around long if he can't throw in multiple 9 or 10 win regular seasons. And he's gonna have to average around #20 in recruiting to reasonably be asked to compete with those teams every single year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Auburn and Texas A&M are good recruiters but in 2018 Auburn had the 14th most talented roster and A&M the 16th. Both of those teams obviously recruit better than us, but both are well within the margin for us to beat them.

---

Didn't you say if the recruiting rankings were within 10 spots of each other then the better recruiting team wins 65% of the time? So let's assume aTm, auburn, ark, OM, and Kentucky stay within that 10 spot range? What's the odds we run the table among those teams?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

If we recruit every year inside the Top 25 with 1 out of 4 being Top 2", Moorhead wins more games over 9 years than Mullen did.

Moorhead is in a crap spot honestly. He's got 6 programs in his division that spend more money in recruiting and at least 4 that spend way more money on coaching.. But his predecessor maximized the output far above what we should reasonably get from what Mullen brought in.

But Mullen only averaged 7 regular season wins per year. I don't know how long our fan base would keep Moorhead if he averaged 8 regular season wins per year but never won 10 regular season games. That would be a major improvement for our program to average 8 per year, but with the strength of Bama, LSU, Auburn, and TAMU it's highly conceivable that could be his path the next 5 years.

Moorhead is going to have it tough at MSU. I can't find anyone that gives me a logical reason why we should expect to consistently beat the 4 teams mentioned. They spend way more than we do in all areas. They recruit way better. They make more money. They have much greater football history and they have better coaches. Now I know we develop talent better, but that's not really measurable.

For Moorhead to come in and win an average of 8 games would be big for us. But I don't know that our fan base will want him around long if he can't throw in multiple 9 or 10 win regular seasons. And he's gonna have to average around #20 in recruiting to reasonably be asked to compete with those teams every single year.

---

I'm very aware of the mountain we face. I don't expect us to win 9 games a year... I expect 7-8 most years esp with aTm upgrading talent and coaching. I just want us to compete for a NY6 bowl every 4 years... this is why I was so upset over this season. We had the team, LSU has a below avg coach, aTm had a better coach but 1st year, auburn lost whole oline... it was our shot to get a NY6 bowl

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jarius

Jackson has shown us no return interest and Eli Acker is only going to flip if Matt Luke is fired and even then it's 50/50. Also, Jackson has plummeted down the recruiting rankings. He may be fortunate to stay a 4 star at the end of the day, although his potential is high enough that I suspect he will keep it.

---

I don?t watch highlight films because it only shows the good, not the bad. But I?ve scouted a few games where our opponent played GC and Jackson disappears. A lot. He is a really good player when he tries, but he doesn?t try often. He stands out on his size alone, is strong as hell and fast off the ball, but he?ll get beat 1v1 more times than he dominates due to what I perceive as laziness. I don?t expect much from him

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msstate7

Will we? We aren't beating auburn, aTm, Bama, and LSU with recruiting. We'll have to beat them with experience and coaching. We can't outcoach or out talent bama, so cancel them off the list. aTm has upgraded coaching and is in the process of upgrading talent. LSU is staying an elite recruiter, but they do have coaching question marks. Auburn is a great recruiting program, but terribly inconsistent.

I look at the recipe you laid out as OM's, but they topped out even higher than top 15. They had a dynamic offense with a good coach. They did beat Bama, but it still didn't get them a west title. The grind of the sec west takes supreme talent, great coaching, and luck to win the west over saban. I don't see it happening for us as long saban is there

---

We've managed to consistently beat Auburn and A&M with inconsistent recruiting classes. So yes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KOdawg1

We've managed to consistently beat Auburn and A&M with inconsistent recruiting classes. So yes

---

And we have been competitive with LSU since 2014. 2 FG away from people having a very different perspective on LSU.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

And we have been competitive with LSU since 2014. 2 FG away from people having a very different perspective on LSU.

---

Yes, we have, and hopefully these trends continue. Tusk has a post in this thread ( https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthrea...-Rankings-W-Ls ) which he says Tennessee and us were outliers as far as bucking the recruiting rankings in relation to W/L; us the good way, and tenn the bad. Both have changed coaches now, so that will be something to keep an eye on.

Expect Malik sooner than later ..
excellent work by the staff . JD is a BIG time talent

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

If we recruit every year inside the Top 25 with 1 out of 4 being Top 2", Moorhead wins more games over 9 years than Mullen did.

Moorhead is in a crap spot honestly. He's got 6 programs in his division that spend more money in recruiting and at least 4 that spend way more money on coaching.. But his predecessor maximized the output far above what we should reasonably get from what Mullen brought in.

But Mullen only averaged 7 regular season wins per year. I don't know how long our fan base would keep Moorhead if he averaged 8 regular season wins per year but never won 10 regular season games. That would be a major improvement for our program to average 8 per year, but with the strength of Bama, LSU, Auburn, and TAMU it's highly conceivable that could be his path the next 5 years.

Moorhead is going to have it tough at MSU. I can't find anyone that gives me a logical reason why we should expect to consistently beat the 4 teams mentioned. They spend way more than we do in all areas. They recruit way better. They make more money. They have much greater football history and they have better coaches. Now I know we develop talent better, but that's not really measurable.

For Moorhead to come in and win an average of 8 games would be big for us. But I don't know that our fan base will want him around long if he can't throw in multiple 9 or 10 win regular seasons. And he's gonna have to average around #20 in recruiting to reasonably be asked to compete with those teams every single year.

---

I don't understand why Dan got a complete pass from a lot of our fans with regards to beating top 20 teams but Joe has "may not work out". Joe essentially did what Dan typically did for most of his career except he didn't openly job hunt during the Egg Bowl. With players that Dan recruited. And I can guarantee that we would have had the same issues with Dan around last year and probably would have had similar results.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ari Gold

Expect Malik sooner than later ..
excellent work by the staff . JD is a BIG time talent

---

I am impressed. I feel like we are getting closer to our true ceiling in recruiting for sure. And I like that we are addressing all position groups rather than giving certain position coaches a pass for a year or two.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Todd4State

I don't understand why Dan got a complete pass from a lot of our fans with regards to beating top 20 teams but Joe has "may not work out". Joe essentially did what Dan typically did for most of his career except he didn't openly job hunt during the Egg Bowl. With players that Dan recruited. And I can guarantee that we would have had the same issues with Dan around last year and probably would have had similar results.

---

I think it's because the fan base had zero expectations his first 5 years. After we started getting better he delivered 10 wins. Expectations changed because we did it. Problem for me was we only did it once and that level of success was clearly not sustainable by us because we didn't have the recruiting that we needed to do it consistently.

I still think, unlike most, that we shouldn't be expecting 9 or more win regular seasons with any sort of regularity for the next decade. We just aren't that kind of program. In order to do that you have to win every single game that isn't Bama, TAMU, LSU, and Auburn. Then you have to beat one of those 4 and it might have to be on the road depending on the year.

Sucks to say, but we have arguably 4 Top 15 programs in all of college football that we have to play every year. We are a Top 25-30 program, but as far as regularly beating them? That's a tough ask.

Moorhead isn't going to get the pass. Unfortunately for him, the jump he is trying to take is a hell of a lot steeper climb than the jump Mullen had to take. He's going to be asked to win those Top 15-20 games more regularly and we just aren't in a spot to do it consistently...yet. We've tasted some victory. But there's a massive jump that has to be made where we walk into a game and realistically say "We were supposed to win that game". A lot of folks think we can win. But in the majority of cases over the last decade, we have to play our A or higher game and the other team has to play their worse than A game for us to win.

Until we get to the point where we can not play our best game and still win, we aren't there as a program. Moorhead might make it look rough the first few years. But what is undeniable is that he's hitting recruiting much harder and THAT is the only way to win big in the SEC. We don't have to develop talent or coach at Mullen level in order to win. But we do have to have comparable talent across the board at every position like the big boys. Mullen was never going to do that. Moorhead has shown he's willing to try.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ari Gold

Expect Malik sooner than later ..
excellent work by the staff . JD is a BIG time talent

---

This is the one I want. I just have a good feeling about Malik being a nice player

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

If we recruit every year inside the Top 25 with 1 out of 4 being Top 2", Moorhead wins more games over 9 years than Mullen did.

Moorhead is in a crap spot honestly. He's got 6 programs in his division that spend more money in recruiting and at least 4 that spend way more money on coaching.. But his predecessor maximized the output far above what we should reasonably get from what Mullen brought in.

But Mullen only averaged 7 regular season wins per year. I don't know how long our fan base would keep Moorhead if he averaged 8 regular season wins per year but never won 10 regular season games. That would be a major improvement for our program to average 8 per year, but with the strength of Bama, LSU, Auburn, and TAMU it's highly conceivable that could be his path the next 5 years.

Moorhead is going to have it tough at MSU. I can't find anyone that gives me a logical reason why we should expect to consistently beat the 4 teams mentioned. They spend way more than we do in all areas. They recruit way better. They make more money. They have much greater football history and they have better coaches. Now I know we develop talent better, but that's not really measurable.

For Moorhead to come in and win an average of 8 games would be big for us. But I don't know that our fan base will want him around long if he can't throw in multiple 9 or 10 win regular seasons. And he's gonna have to average around #20 in recruiting to reasonably be asked to compete with those teams every single year.

---

If Moorhead can average 8 regular season wins per year he will be highly supported by our fanbase IF he continues to give great effort in recruiting, acts like he actually wants to be at MSU long term, and continues to be the likeable personality that he is. Mullen averaged 7-8 wins per year and would have been universally loved without his constant job shopping and his "Yankee" personality. He was appreciated even with that but everyone pretty much knew that MSU was just a temporary job in Mullen's view. The one advantage the Moorhead will have over Mullen, besides recruiting, is staff retention especially on defense. Coaches actually like and respect Moorhead and won't be jobhopping just to get a change of scenery at the rate they did under Mullen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

I think it's because the fan base had zero expectations his first 5 years. After we started getting better he delivered 10 wins. Expectations changed because we did it. Problem for me was we only did it once and that level of success was clearly not sustainable by us because we didn't have the recruiting that we needed to do it consistently.

I still think, unlike most, that we shouldn't be expecting 9 or more win regular seasons with any sort of regularity for the next decade. We just aren't that kind of program. In order to do that you have to win every single game that isn't Bama, TAMU, LSU, and Auburn. Then you have to beat one of those 4 and it might have to be on the road depending on the year.

Sucks to say, but we have arguably 4 Top 15 programs in all of college football that we have to play every year. We are a Top 25-30 program, but as far as regularly beating them? That's a tough ask.

Moorhead isn't going to get the pass. Unfortunately for him, the jump he is trying to take is a hell of a lot steeper climb than the jump Mullen had to take. He's going to be asked to win those Top 15-20 games more regularly and we just aren't in a spot to do it consistently...yet. We've tasted some victory. But there's a massive jump that has to be made where we walk into a game and realistically say "We were supposed to win that game". A lot of folks think we can win. But in the majority of cases over the last decade, we have to play our A or higher game and the other team has to play their worse than A game for us to win.

Until we get to the point where we can not play our best game and still win, we aren't there as a program. Moorhead might make it look rough the first few years. But what is undeniable is that he's hitting recruiting much harder and THAT is the only way to win big in the SEC. We don't have to develop talent or coach at Mullen level in order to win. But we do have to have comparable talent across the board at every position like the big boys. Mullen was never going to do that. Moorhead has shown he's willing to try.

---

On that end we were up until 2013 basically a 6-8 win program other than 2010 which was a special season and 2012 where we had a very favorable schedule and won 8 games. After 2013 was when we started to consistently win 8 games a year except for the year Peter Sirmon was our DC.

I agree that the challenge is going to be to get us from 8 to 9-10 a year. I think the good news on that front is Jackie showed us that we could beat those teams some. Dan consistently beat who he should. Which is a good thing. But we have to now find a way to combine both- and I agree that the only way to do it is through recruiting.

I think recruiting really held Dan back as far as his ceiling here as well as his pride and arrogance- see 1A/1B which to me was an example of him trying to show everyone how much smarter he was than everyone else. That may have cost us both Alabama and Ole Miss in 2014. And then the recruiting left us with gaps on both sides of the ball- especially the offense. Like having a bunch of 5'9" WR's one year, Brandon Holloway as the primary back another year, and costing us players that could have potentially helped us out that he let get away because he didn't want to recruit them.

I think Joe is Going to recruit well enough that he can consistently win 8/9 games a year once he gets his players in here. The problem is going to be retaining him in my opinion. Our fanbase is going to go from worrying about him being a downgrade to worrying about him not taking another job after this year. He needs his guys on offense, especially at qb. I truly think he is going to open some eyes this year and some tunes are going to change.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jarius

I think Joe is Going to recruit well enough that he can consistently win 8/9 games a year once he gets his players in here. The problem is going to be retaining him in my opinion. Our fanbase is going to go from worrying about him being a downgrade to worrying about him not taking another job after this year. He needs his guys on offense, especially at qb. I truly think he is going to open some eyes this year and some tunes are going to change.

---

This is where I?m at. I honestly still believe we have the right guy. This league has a learning curve to it and this man doesn?t fail. Good guy too to boot. Just hope we appreciate him before it?s too late and a big 10 school comes calling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

And we have been competitive with LSU since 2014. 2 FG away from people having a very different perspective on LSU.

---

4 out of last 7 against Auburn and
4 out of last 5 against A&M also.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TALL DAWG

4 out of last 7 against Auburn and
4 out of last 5 against A&M also.

---

Our program has taken an important step forward over the last decade. The sports media people that don't recognize that fact, aren't worth anyone's time.

Dan would have beat UK last year but lost to Ole Miss if he was our coach last year....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked

Dan would have beat UK last year but lost to Ole Miss if he was our coach last year....

---

Boy.... I realize we all want to hate Mullen, but there's no way he would've lost to OM last year. That was a complete mismatch