Braves

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Ok, I'm losing faith big time in hart...

?@BNightengale
A.J. Pierznyski staying put in Atlanta unless #Braves blown away by offer, citing his value on and off field to organization.

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What sense does it make to keep AJ and play him every day? None...

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I think it says a whole lot about Bethancourt and how they had rather deal him off of his AAA numbers than bring him back up and refresh teams memories of what he looked like in the bigs. And there has been a lot of talk the Braves wanted to try and resign AJ even if we trade him. But the day is not over yet.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

I think it says a whole lot about Bethancourt and how they had rather deal him off of his AAA numbers than bring him back up and refresh teams memories of what he looked like in the bigs. And there has been a lot of talk the Braves wanted to try and resign AJ even if we trade him. But the day is not over yet.

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This. It has way more to do with us losing all faith in Bethancourt than in the value of AJ. It really sucks that O'Dowd got popped for PEDs. He'd probably be getting a chance soon, assuming he continued the tear he was on at Pearl.

In the good news department, it looks like we're trying to move Gomes. He won't bring much, but I'd rather get a little than nothing. Hopefully we can move CJ, but we won't get anything for him.

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Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg

This. It has way more to do with us losing all faith in Bethancourt than in the value of AJ. It really sucks that O'Dowd got popped for PEDs. He'd probably be getting a chance soon, assuming he continued the tear he was on at Pearl.

In the good news department, it looks like we're trying to move Gomes. He won't bring much, but I'd rather get a little than nothing. Hopefully we can move CJ, but we won't get anything for him.

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Wish we could unload CJ but I don't think we can unless it's a bad contract for bad contract swap. I would give him and pay half the salary for a box of cracker jacks. Prime example of why Wryn is gone.

In case anyone is keeping score, our record is better than only 6 teams in mlb. We're having another patented fredi collapse. Since the extension to fredi, hart seems to be completely lost IMO. I hate every move we made since that extension.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

In case anyone is keeping score, our record is better than only 6 teams in mlb. We're having another patented fredi collapse. Since the extension to fredi, hart seems to be completely lost IMO. I hate every move we made since that extension.

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Good grief man...your fredi bias has sunk as low as possible if you believe what you just said, regarding fredi. I somewhat agree on hart but I'm gonna have a wait and see approach there until next season to see if some things he's doin are coming together...rite now I'm confused as to what direction he's going.

But back to fredi...he takes a team picked to lose 90-100 games preseason and has them around .500 at the halfway point and beyond. Then these things occur: lose all star 1B; lose reliable closer; trade away team leaders and offensive threats (uribe, KJ); young "studd" catcher sucks; trade away new closer; trade young mid rotation arm; this is not to mention losing the best reliever in the game the day before the season starts. Fredi has his flaws, as you like to point out, but what is about to take place these last 2 months are t going to be on him. I think hart knew this was coming and that's why he went ahead and extended him. That way there'll be no doubt or rumors to cause issues in the club house.

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Originally Posted by shoeless joe

Good grief man...your fredi bias has sunk as low as possible if you believe what you just said, regarding fredi. I somewhat agree on hart but I'm gonna have a wait and see approach there until next season to see if some things he's doin are coming together...rite now I'm confused as to what direction he's going.

But back to fredi...he takes a team picked to lose 90-100 games preseason and has them around .500 at the halfway point and beyond. Then these things occur: lose all star 1B; lose reliable closer; trade away team leaders and offensive threats (uribe, KJ); young "studd" catcher sucks; trade away new closer; trade young mid rotation arm; this is not to mention losing the best reliever in the game the day before the season starts. Fredi has his flaws, as you like to point out, but what is about to take place these last 2 months are t going to be on him. I think hart knew this was coming and that's why he went ahead and extended him. That way there'll be no doubt or rumors to cause issues in the club house.

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What was the excuse for every year fredi has coached here save 1 for the 2nd half collapses?

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Originally Posted by shoeless joe

Good grief man...your fredi bias has sunk as low as possible if you believe what you just said, regarding fredi. I somewhat agree on hart but I'm gonna have a wait and see approach there until next season to see if some things he's doin are coming together...rite now I'm confused as to what direction he's going.

But back to fredi...he takes a team picked to lose 90-100 games preseason and has them around .500 at the halfway point and beyond. Then these things occur: lose all star 1B; lose reliable closer; trade away team leaders and offensive threats (uribe, KJ); young "studd" catcher sucks; trade away new closer; trade young mid rotation arm; this is not to mention losing the best reliever in the game the day before the season starts. Fredi has his flaws, as you like to point out, but what is about to take place these last 2 months are t going to be on him. I think hart knew this was coming and that's why he went ahead and extended him. That way there'll be no doubt or rumors to cause issues in the club house.

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geez, this again. again, there's two "skills" a manager has: getting the most out of a player (over the season), and getting the most out of a situation (in-game). Fredi (and Bobby), excel at the former, but suck at the latter. the former will most help a mediocre team be average, the latter will win championships.

markasaxon
Source: #Dodgers only picking up $500k of Bronson Arroyo's contract, including buyout. Media has exaggerated some of their financial outlay

@David11Lee
That's not very much of Arroyo's deal getting eaten. Allow me to pull back a little on the "softens the blow" thing.

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Olivera better be outstanding and stay healthy. I really have no doubts he'll hit. I have extreme doubts he'll stay healthy though

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Originally Posted by msstate7

What was the excuse for every year fredi has coached here save 1 for the 2nd half collapses?

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I agree.

Fredi has a lot of faults as braves manager...how this season plays out isn't on him. Your blind hate takes away from your legitimate points.

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Originally Posted by shoeless joe

I agree.

Fredi has a lot of faults as braves manager...how this season plays out isn't on him. Your blind hate takes away from your legitimate points.

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The Phillies were predicted much worse than the Braves. Since sandberg left, the Phillies are playing really well. I just really thought hart jumped the gun extended fredi. NO ONE was coming after fredi. We should've waited till the season played out.

I thought hart jumped the gun on trading uribe and Kelly. I think both should've been traded, but a week before the deadline for 2 guys that most likely never make the big team? We let it be known that we'd have to blown away to move AJ, but jump on the first offer for 2 guys having nice years.

At the deadline trading with a contender, we look like the desperate team trading wood. Unless the Dodgers blew us away for wood, why make that move? Hold wood till the offseason and get more than contenders involved.

Just really disappointed in the last month from hart to the least of the Braves...

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Originally Posted by msstate7

markasaxon
Source: #Dodgers only picking up $500k of Bronson Arroyo's contract, including buyout. Media has exaggerated some of their financial outlay

@David11Lee
That's not very much of Arroyo's deal getting eaten. Allow me to pull back a little on the "softens the blow" thing.

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Olivera better be outstanding and stay healthy. I really have no doubts he'll hit. I have extreme doubts he'll stay healthy though

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i'd doubt that. makes too little sense.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

The Phillies were predicted much worse than the Braves. Since sandberg left, the Phillies are playing really well. I just really thought hart jumped the gun extended fredi. NO ONE was coming after fredi. We should've waited till the season played out.

I thought hart jumped the gun on trading uribe and Kelly. I think both should've been traded, but a week before the deadline for 2 guys that most likely never make the big team? We let it be known that we'd have to blown away to move AJ, but jump on the first offer for 2 guys having nice years.

At the deadline trading with a contender, we look like the desperate team trading wood. Unless the Dodgers blew us away for wood, why make that move? Hold wood till the offseason and get more than contenders involved.

Just really disappointed in the last month from hart to the least of the Braves...

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Agree with everything.

I really believe hart went ahead and extended fredi because he knew what he was about to do.

Good thing we traded wood. Right now I'm only confident in miller headed into next season

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Good thing we traded wood. Right now I'm only confident in miller headed into next season

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You have to quit micro analyzing these small samples, especially with these young guys. One game does not determine how good Wisler will be or how good or bad our staff will be next year. At the beginning of the year Teheran was probably nearly an Ace in your mind based off of last year. And now you have been wanting to trade him. These up and down knee jerk swings you have with guys is kind of out there. Most of the time they are not as good or bad as you think. Be patient with these young guys.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

You have to quit micro analyzing these small samples, especially with these young guys. One game does not determine how good Wisler will be or how good or bad our staff will be next year. At the beginning of the year Teheran was probably nearly an Ace in your mind based off of last year. And now you have been wanting to trade him. These up and down knee jerk swings you have with guys is kind of out there. Most of the time they are not as good or bad as you think. Be patient with these young guys.

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Maybe so. Where do you think our staff rates in the east headed into next season?

We have money to sign a TOR guy this offseason. After we finish this train wreck of a season though, do you think one will sign here? I have my doubts.

I just really think trading wood is gonna bite us big time esp considering we got a 30-year old injury prone guy and gave up one of our better prospects with a hole at 2b

Peterson last 7...
.125/.222/.125

Yeah, that's too micro

Last 15...
.176/.263/.235

Probably still too small, right?

Last 30...
.180/.254/.252

Really glad we didn't give peraza a shot there and we gave up our 2nd best starter for a guy with 0 mlb ab's

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Maybe so. Where do you think our staff rates in the east headed into next season?

We have money to sign a TOR guy this offseason. After we finish this train wreck of a season though, do you think one will sign here? I have my doubts.

I just really think trading wood is gonna bite us big time

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Trading Wood could bite us but honestly as much as I liked him, I think he was performing above his ceiling. He is a back end or mid rotation guy that has been pitching like a #2. His velocity is down some, K/9 way down, opponents hitting him better, BABIP is up a lot, may be nothing but we may have sold him at his peak as well. 50/50 either way but again I liked him and probably stuck with him for another year anyway. Because he is still effective right now.

What will our staff be next year? So much depends on who develops. And honestly don't know if we try to sign someone or not. There are multiple ways we can go about filling our needs in the offseason but taking on salary for a bat is probably where I would go to begin with. Look at some real bull pen help. We have a lot of starting pitching depth down through the organization so unless I get really good value for someone, I'm probably buying a bat and catcher.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Trading Wood could bite us but honestly as much as I liked him, I think he was performing above his ceiling. He is a back end or mid rotation guy that has been pitching like a #2. His velocity is down some, K/9 way down, opponents hitting him better, BABIP is up a lot, may be nothing but we may have sold him at his peak as well. 50/50 either way but again I liked him and probably stuck with him for another year anyway. Because he is still effective right now.

What will our staff be next year? So much depends on who develops. And honestly don't know if we try to sign someone or not. There are multiple ways we can go about filling our needs in the offseason but taking on salary for a bat is probably where I would go to begin with. Look at some real bull pen help. We have a lot of starting pitching depth down through the organization so unless I get really good value for someone, I'm probably buying a bat and catcher.

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If we're out to buy a catcher, it's weiters or bust. There's no one else. We held AJ and he'll most likely be back platooning with Bethancourt.

The FA pool is deep with starters. I'd go after Zimmermann, grienke, or price since we moved wood.

I wouldn't even be mad about wood if I felt we got a good deal. I just really hate we traded a 2b prospect and a solid starter for a 30-year old who can't seem to stay healthy

@DOBrienAJC
#Braves Simmons hurt his right thumb, just saw him with it wrapped.

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100 losses... Here we come

4-11 since Fredi's extension.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

If we're out to buy a catcher, it's weiters or bust. There's no one else. We held AJ and he'll most likely be back platooning with Bethancourt.

The FA pool is deep with starters. I'd go after Zimmermann, grienke, or price since we moved wood.

I wouldn't even be mad about wood if I felt we got a good deal. I just really hate we traded a 2b prospect and a solid starter for a 30-year old who can't seem to stay healthy

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Well should have said get a catcher or buy. And I don't mind paying for pitching but it is still a position of strength in the organization. And the Braves are still going to have be mindful of the spending. We are going to have to buy a bat probably for a corner outfielder and depending on how Olivera does at 3rd maybe one for that position as well. Those 3 pitchers you named are going to be in very high demand and unless we can get one at good value it's almost a guarantee that we can't match a big dollar club. And for all the complaining about a 30 year old Olivera those pitchers are the same age. Granted he still has to prove himself in the bigs like they no doubt have but $20 mil per year is the start for those guys. Now if we are trading away pitching this offseason to get a controllable bat then we can consider a pitcher but I think I still work on elevating the position players, catcher and bull pen first.

And in reference to your post right above that, you were talking about one game with Wisler and question if he can be a starter. Forgetting the other games he pitched really well in. Knee jerk and that's not the first time. When Peterson was hitting well the first half of the year you were all for getting rid of Peraza. That's what I mean about taking small samples to voice your opinion on a player. They will have bad stretches. All players do. Especially young guys. I do think he is self correcting some right now. But Peraza didn't look like he was ready for next year either.