I for one don?t care if a poster is negative or positive there can be an opposite points of view. But when you are a dick for the sake of being a dick, 17em.Quote:
Originally Posted by yjnkdawg
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I for one don?t care if a poster is negative or positive there can be an opposite points of view. But when you are a dick for the sake of being a dick, 17em.Quote:
Originally Posted by yjnkdawg
Long time listener...first time caller here...good Lord 2 of yall make me wish I never got on this site..
My two cents:
I hope Barbay actually adjusts to our personnel. I'll believe it when I see it. Relying on Woody for about 35% of our touches probably isn't a great idea if we want him to make it through the season.
I have a feeling this is going to go one of two ways. Barbay will actually adjust and we pass about 60% of the time and we put up better numbers because of what we return or we're around 45/55 and it ends up about the same or worse than this year. Let's hope it's the first. But having been a MSU fan my whole life I'm expecting square peg and round hole and let's just blame Will for it.
All the metric stuff I'm taking with a big grain of salt because that was with different players. Players are who makes things work. And if we don't find a deep threat alpha at WR his deep shots aren't going to work all that well.
That said as far as analytics go you're better off passing in literally every situation other than third and one and in the fourth quarter when you are trying to run the clock out. So as "bad" as we were we were also probably at least maximizing the talent that we had. Or close to it.
At any rate I figure Barbay will be here about 2-3 years max good, bad, ugly.
/rant over
If you weren’t being so intellectually dishonest, you’d realize there are a variety of pro style offenses. In which all have different characteristics, terminology, and thought processes. But you aren’t being intellectually honest so that doesn’t matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by mo7888
What about any of Barbay’s offenses the last 2 years is mediocre?Quote:
Originally Posted by mo7888
Are you going to ignore the mediocre performances of our team 2 out of the last 3 years?
Yes. Yes he is. I'm not entertaining his posts any longer bc he cannot be as illiterate as his posts are suggesting. He has to be a troll & may even be KB too lolQuote:
Originally Posted by CoachT14
It's just you have a completely false narrative of why people disagree with you. I sure don't want average. But anyone who speaks in absolutes that Air Raid and throwing the ball 80% of the time is the ONLY way a team can score and be more than an average offense is talking from cult like mindset. It's just not true. He may fail or succeed and neither one of us knows that. Most are just objective about it. Has nothing to do with wanting to be average or worse. That's just moronic hyperbole you are spewing thinking is a point against anyone disagreeing with you. You and KB have determined we will fail if we don't run the offense you want. That's a narcissistic opinion. .Quote:
Originally Posted by mo7888
You don't really read what I write do you... I'm not saying you're intellectually dishonest...I just don't think you pay attention...Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachT14
Going back to the 'you don't really read what I write' theme... just where did I say that Barbay or his offense was mediocre?Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachT14
I'll save you the work...I didn't...I said that philosophy will only produce mediocre results here. For this philosophy to be successful in the SEC you need to be able to recruit on a higher level.
Why would I care why or if people disagree with me? I mean, really Clark? I mean just look at your post for example...it's not logically coherent...and that's fine .. but it certainly isn't something that would cause any introspection on my part... and for the record, I don't care or need you to agree with me either... like I said...it's fine..Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
Re: mediocrity- its not simply that you crave mediocrity...you're just accustomed to it and accept it.... C34 articulated your position very well earlier in the thread...
I can't speak for KB but, for me, I've determined that this offense will fail in meeting the goals and hopes I had for this team.... you on the other hand will probably be happy with 6-6.... and exstatic if we can get 7.... in my eyes that would be a failure...
Your last paragraph illustrates my point. Your narrative of what I will settle for is absolutely false. 6-6 will not make me happy. You are assigning values and expectations on someone else without any facts to base it on. You have pre-determined this offense will fail and state it as an absolute fact. I've stated neither one of us knows what will happen this fall. Those are not objective statements you are making, it's a narcissistic type of an opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by mo7888
I'm assigning it based on C34 embracing mediocrity for the guys on your side of the discussion. "We arent ever going to be in the Top 5-10 or win anything in football."-C34...Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
If that's not your mindset then you're going to be sorely disappointed because 6 or 7 wins is our ceiling now in my opinion... I understand your opinion is different so if they win 8....call me out... because I'd deserve it...
So I asked kb and he went crickets, so I'll ask you, what part of the air raid the last 3 years made you think we didn't need more talent to compete w THAT offense?? I'll hang up and listenQuote:
Originally Posted by mo7888
6 or 7 is our ceiling? Damn dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by mo7888
We reached our ceiling in the AR this year- 8-4. We had the D to do better but the offense just couldnt get it doneQuote:
Originally Posted by mo7888
More talent that we currently have or talent on par with the top 5 or 6 teams in the SEC? Because we need more than we currently have in the skill positions but if we can get that we'll fare better against the top of the league than trying to go toe to toe with them in the run game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
The D that let om drive 98 yards to have a shot at winning...yea right... but, 8-4 was the ceiling for the AR with a QB that isn't a vertical threat and can't move the ball with his feet for sure....Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Here is what you guys dont seem to grasp:Quote:
Originally Posted by mo7888
We can recruit good OL guys that can block
We can recruit good RB's
We can recruit QB's that are athletic
We cant recruit top notch WR's or TE's like what Georgia has. We can recruit good players there but not elite ones
We cant recruit top notch QB's- we dont have that kind of money. We can recruit good ones but not elite ones
Be physical, have good RB's, have an athletic QB that can make throws. Thats how you win 8-9-10 games at Mississippi State. Mullen showed the way- he just didnt recruit well at WR. Recruit a little better at WR with the Mullen blueprint and we are the program we want to be
We were 7th in the SEC in scoring D and 5th in Total DQuote:
Originally Posted by mo7888
We were 40th in the country in Scoring D and 35th in Total D
We were lower offensively
That is such an antiquated way to look at things... it hasn't worked in the past, with only one or two exceptions, and it's not going to work in the future... and when I inevitably say, 'I told you so' in about 10 months you'll have some lame excuse as to why it didn't work and why it'll work better next time....Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
It's really not. It works very well. Just look at Mississippi.Quote:
Originally Posted by mo7888
2021- Coral ran 152/614 while throwing for 3350 yards. They won 10 games doing it. Something we have done twice in history.
2022- Dart ran for 128/614 while throwing for 3000 yards.
Mississippi has been above us scoring O the last 2 years. The shit works. They did the same shit under Freezus. They have 2 Sugar Bowls doing the shit. We dont. Why? They recruited better at WR. They didnt have their recruiting coach telling them they would have to learn to block before anything at State like we did with Hevesy
Facts are not on your side
History is on my side.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Just don't bitch to much in 10 months when your little facade gets shattered.... and please call me out if I'm wrong because I'm gonna bring it up when I'm right....
I'll say this as I've said before. If we want to take the next step we have to recruit better. Scheme is secondary to the talent making it work. That goes for Leach and Mullen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
MSU needs to focus a lot more on building up our recruiting and focus less on getting some football genius to outscheme Alabama.
Leach had two four star QB's on our roster and a third four star QB committed and this year we likely will start three four star receivers- Tulu, Zavion, and Robinson. That doesn't include Dortch or Whittmore who are also four star receivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
There is nothing to stop us from recruiting four star players at any position except MSU not putting enough into it as a program. Which has been the actual problem all along. You can not tell me that Ole Miss and USM can find receivers but we can't.
Fewer excuses now with the NCAA as toothless as ever and NIL in play. Which was not the case in the past. At least because we would penalize ourselves.
How did we do in 1979 with Dave Marler at QB when we threw it alot? 3-8Quote:
Originally Posted by mo7888
How did we do in 1988 with Tony Shell slinging it? 1-10
How did we do with Derrick Taite slinging it in 1995? 3-8
How about Kevin Fant 2002? 3-9
How about Kevin Fant 2003? 2-10
History is nowhere near close to your side
1979? LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Derrick Taite won 8 in 1994 and upset Bama in 1996.
Dan's best offense was with Dak when we actually had a deep passing game. Which coincidentally was when Dan won 10 and then 9 the next year. Heck- we won 9 games this year and our offense wasn't even fully at its peak. Not to mention two of the schools biggest comebacks and one of the more memorable wins in MSU history against LSU.
We didn't lose those years because we were passing. Our defense was atrocious most of those years.
We ran the ball 495 times in 1994- threw it 237...so you loseQuote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
2014?
We ran it 578 for 3030 and threw it 423 for 3649...got to run
Whats hilarious is the people spouting "Holloway up the middle" dont realize that we passed more that season than ran in 2015. 500 passes to 427 runs.
Oh wow- so you admit the offense and its philosophy isnt the only thing that affects wins and losses?Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Wow more talent. That's a Novel concept. Why didn't we have that?Quote:
Originally Posted by mo7888
Yeah. So we were still run heavy at that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
I mean we won 9 games in 2015 even if we weren't maximizing our personnel which kind of proves my point.
We don't have a single improvement lined up at QB in the portal. Preferred walk-on isn't good. Wright isn't great and he's not coming. You can pretty much forget a quality portal QB until next year and got to hope for depth after spring.
Did I ever say that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
I've long been a supporter of getting better players in and upping our recruiting resources. You can't say that we can't win throwing the ball around anymore. Because we have. Just like we've won running the ball. And won with balance. Even Arnett appears to be going to at worst close to 50/50.
In addition to that I've also believed that we need to be strong on offense, defense, and special teams. I've never really been someone who has been hyperfocused on offense. Because it is going to take a well rounded team to reach our ceiling. 2021 is a great example because we were awful on special teams and it cost us 2-3 wins because we couldn't kick a field goal. Otherwise Leach would have and probably should have had two 9 win seasons back to back. It is what it is because it takes all three phases- especially for MSU.
The biggest thing I disagree with you on is the poor ol state mentality that we "can't" recruit certain position groups well. That has been proven false.
IF Will leaves after 2023 I would imagine we could find someone in the portal. The reality is most QB's in the portal are in there because they want to play. They're typically not going to go somewhere that they have to compete. And they're certainly not going to go somewhere to wait around for their turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
Honestly we're probably going to either end up with no one or someone like Luke Altmeyer or a JUCO that is a big MSU fan like a Lovertich or Tyson Lee realistically.
I fully expect Parson to be the back up next year at this point.
At the end of the day it doesn?t matter what scheme you run
Like Kirby smart says , it?s not about the x?s and the O?s it?s about the jimmy and the joes.
I?ve heard Zach Arnette say this multiple times at press conferences before so our own coach understands it.
Arnette recruits very well on his side of the ball, we have some really good talent on the defensive side that we bring in every single year but we can never manage to do that with the offense
If we want to consistently compete most years in the SEC we are going to have to get our money up well above what it is.
Our NIL will have to be multiplied by 4 or 5x what it is currently
An elite Quarterback can take 6-6 team and take them to a NY6 bowl
It happens all the time.
The most exciting thing about Arnette is I fully believe that as long as he is here, the defense will always be a top 5 or right near top 5 sec defense year in and year out.
if we could get a good offense to go along with an Arnette defense, we would make noise around the country.
If a Dak Prescott state team had an Arnette defense they would have won the SEC
I hate that I bash on the guy so much but until I am proven otherwise, Will Rogers limits this team.
I remember the stupid arguments people made in 2021 that will rogers was better than Matt corral.
No way in hell.
Matt corral made a 7-5 team go 10-2
Without him, they lose to Tennessee, LSU, State, Arkansas, hell maybe even vandy.
Lane kiffin knows that jaxson dart is not elite, he is solid but he is not elite so that is why you see them targeting big time transfer qb?s to start over him because that is what every offense requires.
Yes, the air raid would have been much better with a better qb
Gardner minshew on 2021 and 2022 State instead of Will Rogers would have led to back to back 10+ win seasons
Im ok with leaving the air raid and going to a barbay style because I trust coach Arnette and since he is a defensive guy he knows what is toughest to defend.
And to add to the point about recruiting better at Wide Receiver, I think that is why Arnette brought home Chad Bumphis.
That's like comparing Bill Russell's era to Shaq's..players were different...schemes were different...it can't be done reasonably..youre grasping at straws now....and history is definitely on my side and it's irrelevant that you don't want to see it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
You're changing course there... we will always need more talent but we were a QB and a WR away from being competitive for the West...much easier to get than the wholesale talent gap we'd need to bridge to compete at the level I'd like to see us competing at...Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
Watching Whittmore on Youtube makes me think he could be great in the wildcat
History is on the side of Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Georgia, Tenn and Florida. Nobody outside of that group nobody has won the SEC outright since 1963. Kentucky tied with Georgia in 1976. That's the history. We want to get and stay in the second tier for a significant period of time. Everyone wants that. The only team recently to come close was So Car under Spurrier for 4 years. And he changed to accomplish that with the talent he was getting, different than how he did it at Florida. He was running it nearly 60% of the time and would try to hit some big plays. Not saying that we or anyone else from the lower tier has to do it ONLY that way but conversely you can't say it can only be done your way either.Quote:
Originally Posted by mo7888
That's kind of crazy that only those six have won the SEC since 1963. A little surprised that Ole Miss didn't win it once in that span in the 1960's. I'm sure they probably claim a title that they tied but didn't really win the tiebreaker knowing them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?