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11-15-2013, 04:54 PM
FlabLoser

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

That is too much for our program. We are not going to average 8 wins under any coach. Especially when we are playing 5 Top 15 teams per season. For all the dick sucking Freezus gets, he has a legit chance to finish 3-5 in the SEC this year and 7-5 overall

Can we win 8-9 games at times? Absolutely. But to average 8 wins over 4-5 year period? No ****ing way. Not at Miss State

I have higher expectations than you. Six wins ought to be our floor. 7-8-9 wins most years. 10 or 11 on a good year when things line up just right.
11-15-2013, 05:16 PM
CadaverDawg

My biggest complaint is everybody comparing us to our history. THIS IS NOT YOUR DADDY'S SEC anymore. Quit comparing us to what we have done in the past. We are doing an 80 million dollar renovation and the conference is the most powerful in the country. It's time for us to grow the **** up and start expecting more.

Stop being scared and pointing back to shit from the past. We are paying coaches nearly 3 million per year to coach our football team. We can recruit in the top 25 yearly, we can pay our coach a top 25 salary, and we are in the top conference...we should be somewhere around the top 25 to top 40 every year going forward if we are achieving simply what we are capable of achieving. Over achieve here and there, and we could finish in the top 15-20 on occasion.

Doesn't mean slipping up and going 6-6 can't happen....but we shouldn't be giving ****ing contract extensions for a 5-7 or 6-6 record anymore. That shit is pathetic.
11-15-2013, 05:18 PM
HoopsDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

That is too much for our program. We are not going to average 8 wins under any coach. Especially when we are playing 5 Top 15 teams per season. For all the dick sucking Freezus gets, he has a legit chance to finish 3-5 in the SEC this year and 7-5 overall

Can we win 8-9 games at times? Absolutely. But to average 8 wins over 4-5 year period? No ****ing way. Not at Miss State

I don't get that caught up in w/l records. You have to judge that on a season by season basis. I enjoyed Mullen's first year when we finished 5-7 a hell of lot more than our puffed up 8-5 season last year.
11-15-2013, 05:19 PM
Goat Holder

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Croom Diaries

I thought one of the most interesting comments in this thread was that Croom had 10 SEC wins in 5 years, Mullen has 14 (with 3 more games this year).

Croom's 10 SEC wins were against teams that had a combined 57-66 record (.463)

Mullen's 14 SEC wins were against teams that had a combined 65-105 record (.382): includes UK's 2-7 record so far this year.

Misleading stats. First thing that jumps out at me is that Mullen has won 40% more SEC games than Croom over 5 years. That stat looks real nice for Mullen, eh? Not mention beating the CUSA/Sun Belt types that Croom (and Jackie) never could. Way to trivialize that. What a joke.

And how you going to compare 14 teams' records to 10 teams' records? That's one sample size of 123 games and another of 170 games.

Nice whiff, Babe Ruth. Or should I say Brad Corley. Better yet Daryl Norris.
11-15-2013, 05:22 PM
HancockCountyDog

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

My biggest complaint is everybody comparing us to our history. THIS IS NOT YOUR DADDY'S SEC anymore. Quit comparing us to what we have done in the past. We are doing an 80 million dollar renovation and the conference is the most powerful in the country. It's time for us to grow the **** up and start expecting more.

Stop being scared and pointing back to shit from the past. We are paying coaches nearly 3 million per year to coach our football team. We can recruit in the top 25 yearly, we can pay our coach a top 25 salary, and we are in the top conference...we should be somewhere around the top 25 to top 40 every year going forward if we are achieving simply what we are capable of achieving. Over achieve here and there, and we could finish in the top 15-20

This times a million.

You know how many Pac 10/12 championships Oregon won in the 50 years before Belotti showed up? One in 1994 by Rich Brooks. One Pac championship in 50 years.

Funny you don't hear Oregon fans bitching about their history anymore.

Prior to 1989, they had been to 6 bowls in their program's history.
11-15-2013, 05:22 PM
CadaverDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

I don't get that caught up in w/l records. You have to judge that on a season by season basis. I enjoyed Mullen's first year when we finished 5-7 a hell of lot more than our puffed up 8-5 season last year.

Exactly. Too many people are ignoring what is happening weekly on the field. They are letting meaningless wins over cream puffs cloud their judgement and blind them of the shitty play and coaching blunders.
11-15-2013, 05:22 PM
Goat Holder

So has Mullen's, per Scout:

2009: 19 (Both Croom and Mullen get credit for this)
2010: 38
2011: 45
2012: 18
2013: 22

You all have gone off the deep end.
11-15-2013, 05:24 PM
HancockCountyDog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goat Holder

Misleading stats. First thing that jumps out at me is that Mullen has won 40% more SEC games than Croom over 5 years. That stat looks real nice for Mullen, eh? Not mention beating the CUSA/Sun Belt types that Croom (and Jackie) never could. Way to trivialize that. What a joke.

And how you going to compare 14 teams' records to 10 teams' records? That's one sample size of 123 games and another of 170 games.

Nice whiff, Babe Ruth. Or should I say Brad Corley. Better yet Daryl Norris.

Just sad to be honest.
11-15-2013, 05:26 PM
HoopsDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goat Holder

Misleading stats. First thing that jumps out at me is that Mullen has won 40% more SEC games than Croom over 5 years. That stat looks real nice for Mullen, eh? Not mention beating the CUSA/Sun Belt types that Croom (and Jackie) never could. Way to trivialize that. What a joke.

And how you going to compare 14 teams' records to 10 teams' records? That's one sample size of 123 games and another of 170 games.

Nice whiff, Babe Ruth. Or should I say Brad Corley. Better yet Daryl Norris.

If you aren't capable of acknowledging that Mullen inherited a MUCH better situation than Croom inherited then you can't talk with the grown ups. And remember, this is a Comparison to Croom, not Nick Saban, but freakin Sly Croom.
11-15-2013, 05:30 PM
RougeDawg

You sure this wasnt a dream?

The admin I've heard from are saying starkly different things. They're just trying to determine if its worth it to pay the buyout. The next 3 weeks will push that buyout value one way orb the other.

The other scenario I was told, was DM is pursuing other job options, per request of the Admin. I've not heard not definite tatement saying dan stays no matter what.
11-15-2013, 05:30 PM
Statecoachingblows**

This shit is gettin good! Wish this was on a talk show! Took 30 minutes to get to the end! (Without commercials)
11-15-2013, 05:33 PM
gravedigger

This argument plus croom diaries is all I need.

I've been off the Mullen bandwagon for a couple of weeks now, but wins against Arkansas and om will no longer change my mind.

We are not getting better. Players have lost the fire to play for Mullen for whatever reason and I have no reason to believe a change would set us back.....for now. If we let this go on in another disappointing season with the media beating us up for underachieving, we will lose our opportunity to build on something.

I hear the friction is that HUD and Strick don't work together and HUD is putting stipulations on the relationship if he's hired. Stipulations that Keenum won't accept at this point.

I hope we find a way through this with as little damage as possible, but I do recognize the mistakes made in keeping bellard, felker, sherrill, to long and the advantage we kept in moving to Mullen as quickly as we did one year removed from a bowl win.

I think to put it in a political term, "lame duck" is the best way to describe our coaching staff right now.
11-15-2013, 05:42 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeDawg

You sure this wasnt a dream?

The admin I've heard from are saying starkly different things. They're just trying to determine if its worth it to pay the buyout. The next 3 weeks will push that buyout value one way orb the other.

The other scenario I was told, was DM is pursuing other job options, per request of the Admin. I've not heard not definite tatement saying dan stays no matter what.

And the way to know that is how we finish. If we finish well, the fans will show up next year. If we look bad then I gurantee you 5 million is a LOT less than what we would lose by bringing back Dan and a poor product.

The administration is still in cover their ass mode. They would look really stupid if they said that Dan wasn't coming back and then all of a sudden we go on a tear and finish with 8 wins including a bowl game.

Like many of our fans, they can probably speculate how things are likely going to go.
11-15-2013, 05:44 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by Statecoachingblows

This shit is gettin good! Wish this was on a talk show! Took 30 minutes to get to the end! (Without commercials)

Starting tomorrow- no doubt. It's crunch time. And it's about to get good one way or the other.
11-15-2013, 05:45 PM
The Croom Diaries

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goat Holder

Misleading stats. First thing that jumps out at me is that Mullen has won 40% more SEC games than Croom over 5 years. That stat looks real nice for Mullen, eh? Not mention beating the CUSA/Sun Belt types that Croom (and Jackie) never could. Way to trivialize that. What a joke.

And how you going to compare 14 teams' records to 10 teams' records? That's one sample size of 123 games and another of 170 games.

Nice whiff, Babe Ruth. Or should I say Brad Corley. Better yet Daryl Norris.

Good one. I'd come back with a bunch of facts but I and many have done that already, and you're not worth the time.
11-15-2013, 05:46 PM
Goat Holder

Mullen would have went 6-6 in 2004 with Omarr Conner and all those guys. Get the **** outta here.

You really think Mullen loses to Maine, UAB and Vandy? Shit, he probably beats Arkansas and Ole Miss too.
11-15-2013, 05:49 PM
Goat Holder

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Croom Diaries

Good one. I'd come back with a bunch of facts but I and many have done that already, and you're not worth the time.

I'll take this as a concession. I obliterated your point. So you're correct to stop posting.
11-15-2013, 05:51 PM
Goat Holder

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

And it's about to get good one way or the other.

This I'll agree with. We have the best team in America at home, the worst team in the SEC on the road, and our rival at home (who has similar talent to us). I can't think of a better measuring stick for a coach, honestly. I'm very excited to see it play out.
11-15-2013, 05:54 PM
The Croom Diaries

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goat Holder

Mullen would have went 6-6 in 2004 with Omarr Conner and all those guys. Get the **** outta here.

You really think Mullen loses to Maine, UAB and Vandy? Shit, he probably beats Arkansas and Ole Miss too.

Oh, yeah, I totally agree paying a coach $2.7 million to not wet the bed is 100% worth it. I just decided to not fire a guy because didn't lose money for my company. Never mind that he was doing the bare minimum and not making me any money. Makes perfect sense. **
11-15-2013, 05:58 PM
The Croom Diaries

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goat Holder

I'll take this as a concession. I obliterated your point. So you're correct to stop posting.

In the interest of saving time: http://maroonandwhitenation.com/2013...fight-minimum/
11-15-2013, 09:55 PM
HunterDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Exactly. Too many people are ignoring what is happening weekly on the field. They are letting meaningless wins over cream puffs cloud their judgement and blind them of the shitty play and coaching blunders.

You are a smart guy but with all due respect, I am confused. You recognize that the chickenshit OCC schedule has made Mullen look much better than he really is. You must then agree that it is part of our current quandry of firing a guy who has taken us to multiple bowls. Yet, you have said repeatedly that you agree with playing those SWAC/Sunbelt teams? How can you say "a bowl is not a bowl" when you say "a win is a win" and no one cares who you beat?

"A win is a win" is the ultimate expression of mediocrity. We gain nothing from beating Jackson St. Nothing.

I not only believe that teams play down to their opponents. I believe they play down to their schedules, too. They look at it and circle the wins and feel no real pressure to beat any good teams. Heck, they didn't last year and were heros to most fans. Gator Bowl and all that. As long as we give them the easy road to a bowl (4 cupcakes, Ky and Vandy) why do we expect them to elevate in those other games and get the big upset wins that we simply must have? No need.

I say again. It is crucial that we get away from the laughable chickenshit OOC schedule and play teams that we can beat but not be ridiculed for playing. There are a lot of teams between Okla St and Alcorn St. We need to find some. We need our team focused and working and improving every week. I don't think they do that in the weeks before those cupcakes. We are, in effect, losing 4 weeks of valuable practice time, too. Those weeks are a waste for the team, the fans and everyone else.
11-15-2013, 10:08 PM
CadaverDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterDawg

You are a smart guy but with all due respect, I am confused. You recognize that the chickenshit OCC schedule has made Mullen look much better than he really is. You must then agree that it is part of our current quandry of firing a guy who has taken us to multiple bowls. Yet, you have said repeatedly that you agree with playing those SWAC/Sunbelt teams? How can you say "a bowl is not a bowl" when you say "a win is a win" and no one cares who you beat?

"A win is a win" is the ultimate expression of mediocrity. We gain nothing from beating Jackson St. Nothing.

I not only believe that teams play down to their opponents. I believe they play down to their schedules, too. They look at it and circle the wins and feel no real pressure to beat any good teams. Heck, they didn't last year and were heros to most fans. Gator Bowl and all that. As long as we give them the easy road to a bowl (4 cupcakes, Ky and Vandy) why do we expect them to elevate in those other games and get the big upset wins that we simply must have? No need.

I say again. It is crucial that we get away from the laughable chickenshit OOC schedule and play teams that we can beat but not be ridiculed for playing. There are a lot of teams between Okla St and Alcorn St. We need to find some. We need our team focused and working and improving every week. I don't think they do that in the weeks before those cupcakes. We are, in effect, losing 4 weeks of valuable practice time, too. Those weeks are a waste for the team, the fans and everyone else.

You're right, I did say every bit of that. And that is exactly my point...we have to learn to quit judging our coaches on bowl games. 70 teams make bowl games, so that is a terrible judge of how good a coach is. What I'm saying is, we need to play weak OOC teams because we play a tough enough schedule in conference to where it is unnecessary to play a tough OOC. Literally, makes no sense. Plus, that makes it easier for us to become bowl eligible every year.

BUT, if we're going to do that, then we as fans and our Administration, have GOT to learn to quit judging the coach on wins and losses and bowl games ONLY. We can have the best of both worlds if we will learn that a bowl game doesn't automatically equal a contract extension, or even a job. A prime example is last year and this year. We won 8 games against really bad teams last year, and looked terrible as a whole last season. This season, we have looked bad and horribly coached. So if people would open their eyes, we could go ahead and make the coaching change because regardless of record, we are underachieving and have horrible coaching since last year. Why the hell do we have to go 5-7 for 2 straight years to consider firing a coach when we can see enough to do it during a 8-5 and potentially 5-7 season? We shouldn't have to wait.

But since our fans and administration are too damn stupid to see the writing on the wall, and would rather have a rebuild on our hands before firing a coach...I'm starting to think maybe we need to play a tougher schedule. That's the only way for our small minded fans to see a turd when it's staring them in the face.
11-15-2013, 10:15 PM
HunterDawg

As long as they can bring their D game and win half our games, it will be very hard to ever get their A game when we need it.

We need to at least require the B or C game every week. Our team may be inconsistent because our schedule is so inconsistent. Plays that work wonderfully one week lose 5 yards the next. Very hard for us to identify and correct problems in those games. Every play works.
11-15-2013, 10:16 PM
Homedawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

If you aren't capable of acknowledging that Mullen inherited a MUCH better situation than Croom inherited then you can't talk with the grown ups. And remember, this is a Comparison to Croom, not Nick Saban, but freakin Sly Croom.

I'm not sure abou that. Attitudes? Maybe talent? No. Croom inherited multiple nfl guys and we lost to MAINE! Who did Mullen inherit besides dixon that was an nfl guy?
11-15-2013, 10:23 PM
CadaverDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterDawg

As long as they can bring their D game and win half our games, it will be very hard to ever get their A game when we need it.

We need to at least require the B or C game every week. Our team may be inconsistent because our schedule is so inconsistent. Plays that work wonderfully one week lose 5 yards the next. Very hard for us to identify and correct problems in those games. Every play works.

Sorry, but that sounds like garbage to me. They play 12 games a damn year....if you can't get your team up 12 times in a calendar year, that speaks more to you as a coach. We're talking 4 games against weaker teams. Four. Out of 12. Come on, mane
11-15-2013, 10:45 PM
Political Hack

maybe we should move into the NFC south.
11-15-2013, 10:52 PM
CadaverDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Political Hack

maybe we should move into the NFC south.

No shit. People amaze me. There is literally zero point in playing tough OOC opponents. Zero.
11-15-2013, 11:29 PM
maroonmania

Quote:

Originally Posted by gravedigger

This argument plus croom diaries is all I need.

I've been off the Mullen bandwagon for a couple of weeks now, but wins against Arkansas and om will no longer change my mind.

We are not getting better. Players have lost the fire to play for Mullen for whatever reason and I have no reason to believe a change would set us back.....for now. If we let this go on in another disappointing season with the media beating us up for underachieving, we will lose our opportunity to build on something.

I hear the friction is that HUD and Strick don't work together and HUD is putting stipulations on the relationship if he's hired. Stipulations that Keenum won't accept at this point.

I hope we find a way through this with as little damage as possible, but I do recognize the mistakes made in keeping bellard, felker, sherrill, to long and the advantage we kept in moving to Mullen as quickly as we did one year removed from a bowl win.

I think to put it in a political term, "lame duck" is the best way to describe our coaching staff right now.

Well Strick needs to get with the program and realize his job is to have a successful athletic department, not be best buds with his head coaches. Has anyone seen our crowds in the Hump the last couple of years? If we don't have the right football HC to be successful, and I do think Hud is a guy who could be very successful at MSU and fits our culture, then Strick can be proud of his HC who he enjoys working with and is supposedly running the program the "right way" but our crowds at DWS may start looking the same as what has been at the Hump lately.
11-15-2013, 11:38 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterDawg

You are a smart guy but with all due respect, I am confused. You recognize that the chickenshit OCC schedule has made Mullen look much better than he really is. You must then agree that it is part of our current quandry of firing a guy who has taken us to multiple bowls. Yet, you have said repeatedly that you agree with playing those SWAC/Sunbelt teams? How can you say "a bowl is not a bowl" when you say "a win is a win" and no one cares who you beat?

"A win is a win" is the ultimate expression of mediocrity. We gain nothing from beating Jackson St. Nothing.

I not only believe that teams play down to their opponents. I believe they play down to their schedules, too. They look at it and circle the wins and feel no real pressure to beat any good teams. Heck, they didn't last year and were heros to most fans. Gator Bowl and all that. As long as we give them the easy road to a bowl (4 cupcakes, Ky and Vandy) why do we expect them to elevate in those other games and get the big upset wins that we simply must have? No need.

I say again. It is crucial that we get away from the laughable chickenshit OOC schedule and play teams that we can beat but not be ridiculed for playing. There are a lot of teams between Okla St and Alcorn St. We need to find some. We need our team focused and working and improving every week. I don't think they do that in the weeks before those cupcakes. We are, in effect, losing 4 weeks of valuable practice time, too. Those weeks are a waste for the team, the fans and everyone else.

We played Oklahoma State this year. How is that working out for us as far as playing up to our opponents this year?

By your theory, we should be even better than we were last year because we played Oklahoma State.
11-15-2013, 11:40 PM
Coach34

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

You're right, I did say every bit of that. And that is exactly my point...we have to learn to quit judging our coaches on bowl games. 70 teams make bowl games, so that is a terrible judge of how good a coach is.

Yet only 7...SEVEN SEC teams have been to 3 straight bowls even though it's so damn easy to go to a bowl
11-15-2013, 11:42 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterDawg

As long as they can bring their D game and win half our games, it will be very hard to ever get their A game when we need it.

We need to at least require the B or C game every week. Our team may be inconsistent because our schedule is so inconsistent. Plays that work wonderfully one week lose 5 yards the next. Very hard for us to identify and correct problems in those games. Every play works.

I guess you missed the Bowling Green game this year.

I'd actually say we're very consistent. We beat teams we should and get blown out by top 20 teams.

A good coach at any level can use those games properly.
11-15-2013, 11:53 PM
HoopsDawg

5 didn't make a bowl last year and 4 of them fired their coach.
11-15-2013, 11:54 PM
CadaverDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

5 didn't make a bowl last year and 4 of them fired their coach.

Bingo.
11-16-2013, 12:09 AM
Coach34

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

5 didn't make a bowl last year and 4 of them fired their coach.

Kentucky and Tennessee had missed bowls for multiple seasons- not 1 time

UPig had an interim coach- he was going to be fired regardless

Auburn was a cluster

The thing is- the school that stuck with their coach for his down season after a a good run- Missouri- is now reaping the benefits for doing so.
11-16-2013, 12:14 AM
CadaverDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

Kentucky and Tennessee had missed bowls for multiple seasons- not 1 time

UPig had an interim coach- he was going to be fired regardless

Auburn was a cluster

The thing is- the school that stuck with their coach for his down season after a a good run- Missouri- is now reaping the benefits for doing so.

Haha, good try. Pinkle has proven a TON. Mullen...not so much.
11-16-2013, 12:25 AM
Coach34

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Haha, good try. Pinkle has proven a TON. Mullen...not so much.

Was no trying to it- I just brought facts

And this is where I disagree with you guys. Winning 8-9 games at Miss State is a big deal. We've only won 10 once in my lifetime.
11-16-2013, 12:33 AM
HoopsDawg

If only AU had stuck with Chizick. Dooley was close too. Joker just needed more time.
11-16-2013, 12:37 AM
HoopsDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

Was no trying to it- I just brought facts

And this is where I disagree with you guys. Winning 8-9 games at Miss State is a big deal. We've only won 10 once in my lifetime.

No one disagrees with that.
11-16-2013, 12:39 AM
CadaverDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

Was no trying to it- I just brought facts

And this is where I disagree with you guys. Winning 8-9 games at Miss State is a big deal. We've only won 10 once in my lifetime.

For the love of God, why do you keep comparing everything to our shitty history? The SEC is different now. Vandy is winning 8 games per year these days. 8 wins against 8 really bad teams, and 5 blowout losses against any team with a pulse, is nothing to beat our chests over. At some point you have to look at what is happening on the field.

I hope Mullen figures something out over these next 3 games....but I'm shocked that you can't see these issues.
11-16-2013, 01:02 AM
cheewgumm

With our fans saying a bowl game guarantees your job, i can think of a good reason.

Everyone disagrees I get it. And I'm done arguing it. But if the same people next year say its time for a change after we win 6, I hope someone calls bullshit.

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