What would you have done differently than Leach?Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldawg28
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What would you have done differently than Leach?Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldawg28
He has been for 20 yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by FISHDAWG
Honestly, I think our team leaders saw their "leadership role" as some social responsibility to "challenge" the current leadership structure, which flies in the face of Leach's philosophy. It's just a bad fit short term. We're going to have to see a lot of turnover in players before we start to have success IMO. We're likely 2 years away from having a solid enough base to work with, but in the Covid post-2020 world anything is bound to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Others will know more specifics about what's going on in the locker room, but it's clear that the lines have been drawn and too many people are standing on one side or the other instead working together.
It appears we got about the worst combination of circumstances right now, team and coach. Leach can institute discipline and fix the culture without pushing the entire team out. He is making this a lot harder than it has to be. I know there are some good kids and good players on the team that don't need attitude adjustments.
NoQuote:
Originally Posted by PendingTransaction
This is going to be okay by next year, good in 2 years and great after that. I am thinking 6, then 8, then 9-10 wins in the next 3 years. Nothing a decent signing class and 10 grad transfers (or however many it takes) can’t fix.
No coach has done more with less at harder places than Leach. It has taken 2-3 years at both previous stops and it will again, apparently.
Are there ways he could make it easier on himself. No doubt. But he will get ‘his guys’ and get there in the end, as always. Fighting uphill as an underdog is his mode. I guess that is just the way it has to be.
Adapt his air raid to the current rosters strengths. It ultimately would have been a more balanced offense. He could have gradually implemented more of what he wants. It's poor coaching to force a square peg into a round hole.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
I don’t disagree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldawg28
What about from a work ethic, drugs, and standards standpoint?
You got me wanting to quit my job, and move to Starkville to sell hard drugs. Our team is nothing but hard core drug addictsQuote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Wow ... amazing!Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkerhill
We'll be lucky to win 6 by the third year. And it takes a bit more than one "decent" signing class to have a team capable of winning 9-10 games in this conference.
The majority of these players leaving don't fall within your listed categories. They've worked hard, followed the standards, and have run into a brick wall with results. The coach can't provide answers he's instead blaming them. You'd get upset too. He's also too blame on whom he sends on the field.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
He didn't make those kids smoke weed. He didn't make them quit or opt out. They all chose to. That's on the kid.Quote:
Originally Posted by R2Dawg
I am brave enough to put my opinion on the record. Guess we?ll see next few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by msugolf
The kids didn?t make him run an offense that apparently everyone except Bo Pelini has figured out. They didn?t make him refuse to adapt to the personnel that he was given. He chose to be stubborn. That?s on the coach being paid 5 million to win games this year, not in 3 years when he has ?his? players here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
It's worked pretty good at BYU!Quote:
Originally Posted by was21
Those Mormons are 26 though due to the 4 year mission they take.Quote:
Originally Posted by Percho
Don't know if leach can average 7-5 here like dan did or not, but it is clear he ain't worried about winning this year. That is clear from the roster overhaul and letting shrader walk.
So we can all stop saying he should adapt to win now his scheme to fit this roster and win now. He ain't worried about that and it's obvious.
Leach was hired to win- thats the bottom line. Next year will make or break I think. If 2021 isnt any better- then things will get interesting. If Leach is still struggling quite a bit- there is going to be problems and hell raising. And it should be.
Keep in mind, Leach will likely need about 4 years to hit .500. We got rid of our last coach when everyone wanted, now we're gonna have to be patient whether we like it of not. Now if he loses his first two Eggbowls he could be in early trouble.
Next year is a terrible schedule with Arky, Aub, and A&M on the road. At Auburn is a loss no matter what. Arkansas is likely a loss as is A&M....as well as LSU and Bama and possibly NC State.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Struggling again on offense with an offensive guru will be the judgement more than the final record. A 2nd year struggle vs SEC Defenses will lead to alot of people walking out of his corner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bothrops
Someone at qb is going to have to become a juggernaut very very quick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
He will get skull drug in his first two egg bowls. That will probably be the end of the experiment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bothrops
Let's see- Moorhead comes to us as an offensive guru at Penn State, struggles here and now his offense is good again at Oregon.
Leach is an offensive guru who did well at Wazzu and struggles here in year one.
Maybe it's not them.**
.500 SEC record or overall?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bothrops
You are really reaching here. According to Leach, joes culture is the problem. So you can't play both sides here. The fact you are using Mooreheads success as an OC in a different conference is amateur. Maybe it's SEC defenses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
If you are gonna make arguments, please make it atleast relative.
Amazing how many people don't get that coaches are to take what they have today and make the most of it. Last I checked we are still selling game tickets for this year and plan to next year. You don't get two exhibition years before it counts. When or lose, you are to be judged as a coach by how your unit performs based on what you were given to work with. Running so many players off that you can't field a team Is cost-prohibitive to the goal of winning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Joe's culture is the main problem. I don't disagree there. But relatively speaking if players on other teams can execute these offenses and our guys can't. LSU ran a lot of Moorhead's RPO's- I doubt that they would have done that if they thought Moorhead was the idiot that many on this message board thought he was- or that his offense "wouldn't work" in the SEC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell
The this won't work mantra is so overplayed by some of our fans. Get better players in and I guarantee you that any offense will work better- even in the SEC.
Amazing how you missed my post about Dave Clawson, Tom Allen, and Neal Brown's first year yesterday. Actually first two years for Clawson and Allen. I could go through football history and point out many great coaches that took a year or two to get things going. I would say that is actually the norm most of the time although I'm sure there are exceptions too. But guys like Saban, Bill Walsh with the 49ers, Bear Bryant at Texas A&M, and Vince Lombardi with the Packers all come to mind. This really shouldn't be surprising given Leach's history at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell
I think we agree that Moorhead's culture was a problem...and you're surprised that Leach has run some people off? That's typically what happens when a new coach comes to town anyway. Even the great Dan Mullen lost some guys.
and last time I checked he was still getting 5M year to try and win football games, meaning putting his players in the best position to win now not three years from now
"The this won't work mantra is so overplayed by some of our fans. Get better players in and I guarantee you that any offense will work better- even in the SEC.
Even the great Dan Mullen lost some guys."
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Couple things Todd, I have seen many football seasons at Msu, seen many Coaches come and go, But I can tell you I hope in at least your Lifetime, "we" will see another Coach as good as Dan MUllen was for Msu. Regardless of anyone's take including mine, history says DM was the best or at least one of the very best we have ever had. 9 years is a lifetime now days for any Coach to stay at one place, money and pressure plus being in the Sec which fans are way more impatient than most places in the country with football.
Also, I hope Leach is "regrouping", yes it takes players but his play calling needs to be "retooled", time will tell in the next few years. Hard to catch up to the say top tier schools in the Sec.
Not sure finishing this year will help Leach or the fan base, it's one of my most disappointing seasons ever, mainly from all the post about how great Leach will be before the season. What a terrible adjustments regardless of the players on offense, no imagination, big surprise for me.
Moorhead was never a guru. Just because SI and his agent said It doesn't make it true. And that's Cristibol's offense, not Joes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Nobody has ever claimed Leach to be a guru either. He just runs an offense that throws it 70% of time.
Sec defenses, outside of 2-4, aren't good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell
Maybe it should be. But it's not. It is clear his primary goal for this season is not to win as many games as possible. You don't get get rid of your best players and let others walk if your primary concern is winning now. You also don't run the air raid with a team that's been power spread based. Leach doesn't care about winning now. Accept it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell
All this Moorhead 'culture" excuse is just that - an excuse. A bogus one at that.
When the season started and we kicked the shit out of LSU - i didn't hear one person spouting this culture BS. It was the opposite, people praised the Leach Beach and how the team was so happy, focused and finally disciplined. Now that teams have watched Washington film, all of a sudden its culture, drugs, and laziness. So let me get this right, our team had a bad culture, were taking drugs and were lazy, yet worked hard enough during the summer to go into Baton Rouge in the first weekend of the year and kicked the shit out of the reigning National Champs - and then decided to stop trying because that is the culture Moorhead fostered? How does that make any sense?
That is the story we are telling?
As opposed to the story that the kids clearly worked hard enough to be ready to play in their first game, they played hard and ran into a DC that decided to blitz the air raid. After that, every team we have played has incorporated some version of the 3-8 and the offense has looked like dog shit. The defense has played as well or if not better than they did in the LSU game. So its just the offense that is infected with terrible, lazy, drug addicts?
I guess its a whole lot easier to call a bunch of kids that have worked their ass off for multiple years, won plenty of games for us, lazy drug addicts without any real proof, but all you are doing is making excuses for a guy being paid 5 million dollars a year to win games. That's it - that is all you are doing and I think a lot of our fans need to look in the mirror and realize what they are saying and posting because its pretty damn disgusting.
We literally had a starter quit the other day when & because the DC yelled at him.Quote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
Enough said. The toughness level of this program is pathetic.
Is that the only reason we're losing? Of course not, but it's a real problem that has to get fixed for us to really take the next step
Exactly right. We have several folks that have dug their heels in and said I'm gonna go pro-Leach regardless of what he does and spin everything to favor him. They are gonna go down with the ship and could care less about the program. For as mad as Coach34 makes them about wanting to be right more than State winning, they are doing the same thing with Leach.Quote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
Cohen has a major problem on his hands right now. He's losing money and support from boosters and alumni. Angering other coaches in other sports (one left this week over social awareness issues) and we are on the verge of not being able to even field a football team. Next year we'll be lucky to have 75 scholarship players on the team after all of the opt outs and transfers. We better wake the F up and realize what's going on before we dig ourselves in a hole that we can't recover from.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about if you think that's the whole storyQuote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Oh really?Quote:
Originally Posted by msugolf
That's pretty much the story as I've heard it. What's the rest of the story?
Okay, then what is the whole story? Should be able to covey this without stepping on toes.Quote:
Originally Posted by msugolf
Bravo.Quote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog