....if not completely fabricated.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmostPositive
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....if not completely fabricated.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmostPositive
College staff and students are terrified of being accused of racism. They know the tactics that will be used against them if they don't toe the party line. If you don't understand this, you don't know much about the current state of academia and identity politics.
Some fair points. But the media is primarily looking for a story, so they will always embellish it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taog Redloh
I said from the beginning we didn't have all the facts, and that certainly applied to me. Perhaps the president has done more than I thought he had, and perhaps this is just a small group of students looking for a cause. If that's the case, it will almost certainly go nowhere regardless of what the media thinks or says.
Oh no.. this isn't going away. There will be a lot of people flood to that campus. I'm talking people that have nothing to do with MizzouQuote:
Originally Posted by smootness
The faculty is not solely focused with the racial issues, there are other broader leadership concerns with Wolfe. That's one of the problems here: people are reading one article that refers to race and the football team and getting all riled up without understanding the broader issues in play. A consensus is building about Wolfe needing to resign because there is no confidence in him to lead Mizzou based on multiple issues. This didn't all blow up over a couple racial slurs (which would still be unacceptable btw), it's much worse than that. Here are multiple articles outlining the concerns, including faculty concerns with Wolfe and Chancellor Loftin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach
- http://heavy.com/news/2015/11/tim-wo...io-age-photos/ (Check out the video where Wolfe comments on systematic oppression)
- http://www.columbiamissourian.com/ne...ecfaa9d5d.html
- http://m.columbiatribune.com/opinion...917531853.5417
- http://www.columbiamissourian.com/ne...d798TY.twitter
The faculty has not united behind the desire to remove Wolfe at this hour, but there is momentum building there and a lot of concerns building. I expect Wolfe to be gone by Tuesday now that the Governor and a US Senator have weighed in.
What? I never even said I supported all of their "demands." I still haven't found enough information about the situation up there to form a valid opinion on it. All I've said is that I support their right to protest and don't think they should have to be opinionless automatons just because they're on scholarship.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taog Redloh
I also stated that the degree of unitedness suggests validity to their cause, although if its not as united as portrayed (and I don't necessarily think that one anonymous claim by one player trumps official statements from the coach and AD, but I guess it at least raises the possibility), that observation may not be valid.
If this is the case, though, then ultimately these things will be counterproductive and will actually lead to the kind of reactions you support.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach
I prefer to believe that most people have enough intelligence and common sense to understand they shouldn't believe everything they read and to approach most topics with some caution. Assuming this, unreasonable demands by groups like this and sensationalism by the media will work to their detriment and will still be beneficial ultimately.
The media will always try to find a story, even if it's a protest consisting of 2 people.
Whoa whoa whoa don't let facts get in the way of how you feel inside *Quote:
Originally Posted by Taog Redloh
I agree. They're also terrified of being accused of sexism, or ageism, or whatever the heck else somebody wants to get offended by.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmostPositive
But that doesn't mean there aren't real issues at times that need to be addressed.
I'm giving the players and coaches in the pictures posted and those that issued statements on the record the benefit of the doubt (since they are on the record) over an anonymous player.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE Bruce Dickinson
ANd that same paper laid out the time line. Loftin, 3 days after the second event, issued mandatory online classes for everybody. The whole issue with the football player is about racial issues. The only part of MIZZOU faculty that has been vocal is the english department. That's all.Quote:
Originally Posted by randyholloway
I disagree with this. It's pretty obvious that in a case like this it's much easier to be on-record in support of the boycott than against it. Because of what was said earlier - the worst thing you can be accused of is being a racist or of being against racial reforms. It would take a brave soul to go on record against these protests. There's really no danger of being in support of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by randyholloway
These are contributing factors the lack of confidence in Wolfe that you're seeing. The faculty will be moving on this soon, I promise you. As people "on the ground" understand, there is a lot more than racial incidents happening at Mizzou that are leading to the backlash against Wolfe. Much of this has happened in the past 90 days so the issues have a compounding effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach
We're going to get a playbook on how a University destroys its own athletic programs. I hope the right lessons will be learned by other schools.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
If half the team and coaches are against it, but only one anonymous player is speaking out... why should we give that voice more weight than the people that are on the record? I'm not saying there is no truth to it, I'm sure there is some, but that point of view is likely grossly exaggerated (since it is not subject to further examination).Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
No... This is being played out as a racial issue. Not 1 single person in this thread, nor ESPN, NOR uSAToday..etc believes anything else. There has not been one word about anything else by the national media.Quote:
Originally Posted by randyholloway
You dont think that the locker room wont come into play now that espn has put the story out?Quote:
Originally Posted by randyholloway
I'm not saying we should give it more weight. I'm not assuming half the team is against it just because an anonymous player said it. But I do believe the anonymous player is against it, and I'm sure there are probably others as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by randyholloway
Basically, that report gives me pause when assuming the whole team is behind it, that's all.
Do you think this player did not go on record out of fear of being called a racist? I certainly do.
In this world a person with a differing view from the equality crowd is a racist. I thought these groups were supposed to be tolerant?
And before you say it I will go ahead and address it. This player didn't go anonymous out of fear of dividing the team because 30 other players already have done that. You know...the ones who have gone on record and posed for pictures
Bud, with all respect you want a racial issue so you can take a stand against it. I'm honestly appalled at our fans on this issue... people that don't live (and never have) in the state of Missouri, have never set foot on the campus, have never voted or paid a dollar in taxes in the state are SO SURE they're right about something they don't understand at all and COMLETELY DISMISS the people living in the situation, dealing with the facts and making their own judgments about how to express themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach
Honestly, look at yourselves in the mirror and think about this for a minute. How can you be so sure you're right about something you truly don't understand at all? The answer is pretty obvious...
And regarding no word in the national media, you're right if you're reading ESPN. The Missouri papers are laying out the broader issues re: lack of confidence in his leadership and while race is the hot button issue, it's clearly not the only one. The details are well documented...
Guys, I'm out of this thread for awhile. I hate to see our nation like this. It's not just this event, it's the nation as a whole. I seriously have never seen it so bad.
FWIW there are (Republican) politicians calling for the President's removal: http://www.kansascity.com/news/local...e43682574.html
Pinkel is willing to lie...we know that now. That bodes poorly for the outcome here. Not one college student or staff will be willing to buck the liberal orthodoxy on this. They'll cave, they'll lie, they live with some cognitive dissonance and try to maintain a brave (false) front..
Randy, Who wants a racial issue? What an ignorant thing to say. Nobody I know of wants a racial issue, but what's being played out right now IS a racial issue. You will not find a single person that will honestly say that what they are reading isnt about race! And that's what we are talking about.... what's being reported.Quote:
Originally Posted by randyholloway
You mean the paper you cited? http://www.columbiamissourian.com/ne...0aab0bf74.html
Come on. You are now back peddling.
And for the record... I lived a MAJOR part of my life in Mo.... My WIFE still has her home there. So let's not do this....
Randy, this is about race. And one race is getting out of its place!
The Political Science department supports the protests: https://twitter.com/MizzouPoliSci/st...10837173157888Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach
The Gender Studies department supports the protests: https://twitter.com/mizzouwgst/statu...02295358754816
The Religion department supports the protests: https://twitter.com/MizzouRelSt/stat...91972464332800
There may be (and probably are) others. I just found these in a couple minutes of Twitter browsing.
And minority faculty from across many departments have been vocal:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTVu-9pUsAA8TfD.jpg
Exactly, and they learned it from the bullshit leniency that has been given to the other "protester" groups that have been terrorizing US cities over the last couple years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taog Redloh
We were talking about the removal of the president. What you just posted was not a letter calling for the removal of Wolfe or Loftin. This is also not a "Vote of no confidence"Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaoarsking
I think you're splitting hairs here. If a department or professor is explicitly endorsing the protests, they are supporting the goals of the protesters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach
ETA: The Communication Department too: https://twitter.com/MizzouComm/statu...44100172017664
"Institutionalized racism" and "Gravely concerned with students' ability to succeed and thrive at this institution" are pretty significant accusations - the "oppressive environment" too. Extraordinary claims should require extraordinary proof in most situations, shouldn't they? I was on campus there about a year ago and saw a variety of students of all imaginable backgrounds going about their business and interacting across racial and ethnic lines without any apparent difficulties. The oppressive environment apparently doesn't encompass everyone.
Other than some occasional rednecks spouting ignorant blather that most other people are apparently perfectly able to identify as such, is there some other documentation of what makes UMissouri so oppressive? Because I apparently can't trust my own lying eyes in this matter.
Also - seems like this thread should go to the politics forum.
I have more regard for the integrity and common sense of the average hog farmer than I do for the typical university professor. Missouri officials are almost guaranteed to mishandle this fustercluck and make things worse than they were before
This is sort of shit we're dealing with this days:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IEFD_JVYd0
She seems unhinged...but do you know what she was upset about?Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmostPositive
This doesn't necessarily prove anything, but (white) Missouri player Michael Scherer says the entire team is united and that the mystery source isn't reliable:
"Just because everyone wasn't in the picture doesn't mean that we don't all stand together as a family. Whoever is speaking against our Unity as a family and team is not apart of the same family that I am. by that I am saying that I don't believe that anyone in our locker room would ever say that and the "mystery informant" isn't reliable."
https://twitter.com/Mike_Scherer38/s...68943710273536
https://twitter.com/Mike_Scherer38/s...69038690267136
https://twitter.com/Mike_Scherer38/s...71080875917312
Again, doesn't prove that the team is united. In fact, I would be shocked if there wasn't at least 1 player who didn't agree and was just going along with it out of perceived peer pressure. But it does give evidence that that the mystery man probably wasn't speaking on very many people's behalf.
Perhaps people who wanted to discount the "anonymous source" were all too eager to believe it without question because it's what they wanted to hear? In fairness, the reverse is probably true too.
ETA Scherer is a starting LB and is second on the team in tackles.
She was upset about the professor's suggestion to not let halloween costumes give her a case of the vapors.
But I don't really give a shit what she's bothered about..she's a hypocritical twenty-year-old nitwit who knows almost nothing about life. How happy would you be to let her and twenty of her closest friends dictate policy for your school?
When I say dictate, I mean that in the normal figurative sense. She had the professor fully cowed. We know why. You can insult and shout and harass and intimidate if you're in the right group. But woe betide you if it gets you sideways with the PCbots.
"The video below has been making the rounds on the internet. It shows a young woman screaming in the face of Yale professor Nicholas Christakis about the alleged plight of minority students. Why the hysterical shrieking? Because the professor?s wife (a Yale lecturer) had the audacity to write an email to students at Silliman College, one of Yale?s so-called ?residential colleges,? questioning excessive sensitivity over Halloween costumes."Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...s-david-french
Nice article http://www.foxsports.com/college-foo...estions-110815
Why are Mizzou players on strike?
Because of two instances of racial slurs on campus, a poop swastika -- seriously, it's like "South Park" is writing a campus satire -- graduate student health issues, and a lack of action from University of Missouri president Tim Wolfe. Why Wolfe? Because presumably it is now the university president's job to make sure that no one ever says anything offensive to anyone on campus via spoken or written word, or poop hate symbols. (I haven't Googled it, but couldn't the poop swastika actually be a meta commentary ridiculing the swastika? Like, I'm sure that has been featured in a Brooklyn art show at some point in the past ten years. Think about it, if someone made a poop Alabama logo at Auburn, would you immediately think it was endorsing Alabama? Or the exact opposite? But I digress).
Anyway, activists are demanding that Wolfe step down after announcing his white privilege in a public forum. (Isn't announcing your white privilege at a public forum just more evidence of white privilege? Why are people there to see you denounce your white privilege? Because you have the power to call a press conference thanks to your white privilege. By the way, if I were a rapper, I would totally name myself "White Privilege." Game. Over.)
So there's a hunger strike and some people camping out and now the Missouri football team has decided it won't play unless the president steps down.
Personally, I think anyone who believes that all 80 players are happy to cancel games over politics is a fool. Many are just falling in line with the group because they are afraid of the consequences otherwise..
These days it's very popular to protest things that everyone is already opposed to. ("Bro, your micro aggressions against my anti-slavery petition will not stand.") But the protest really takes off when you find a villain and charge him with the root cause of the issues at hand. Enter President Wolfe, an aloof middle-aged white man who is the perfect villain for a campus crusade against racism. Even if, you know, he isn't racist or involved in any of the actions on campus that people are protesting.
So you've got your villain, what comes next?
You demand his firing.
Because it's not a real bona fide campus protest unless someone gets fired. The mob needs a head to parade around. "You know how much we fought racism at Mizzou? We replaced one middle-aged white dude with another middle aged white dude. Eracism, bitch!"
Now we're starting to go off the deep end here. The President may well be an arrogant a-hole that can't lead. But while some people are saying it's far from a race issue, almost everything coming out is tied to race.
Read the intro to that letter. Now with an open mind and most of you having spent time on a major university in what is considered the most racist state in the Union, can you read that statement with a straight face and not call utter BS on a lot of it? "Oppressive environment", grave concerns over ability to thrive? Some of these department letters are almost comical.
To quote Chris Carter "C'MON MAN" - I absolutely refuse to believe most of that crap.
It's out of hand and people are just dogpiling on one way or another. As other posters have said some are dogpiling to to be part of cause and show of force, others are piling on to show "they aren't racist". The fact that certain groups are supporting the protest doesn't lead me to believe that the cause is any more right or wrong because it's groups I expect to jump on whatever bandwagon makes them look the best in any situation.