And we fired him because he wasn't meeting EXPECTATIONS. Didn't we just cover this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
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And we fired him because he wasn't meeting EXPECTATIONS. Didn't we just cover this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
Stands was told if he was going to remain coach- there were some things that were going to have to change-he refused. Which we knew he would. Stands was not going to remain coach regardless.
I'm arguing your point that we have been the 4th best program in the SEC- thats bullshitQuote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
You're only going back 10 years and you're only looking at tourney appearances. We've already done this research. Go back ten more years and add up most wins for all 20. MSU was #4 right behind Tennessee. I'm sure we've now slipped since Brick took over. Wins are wins and MSU pre Brick was the 4th winningest program in the SEC 12.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
wins dont matter- especially with the easy schedules we have played. NCAA Tourneys matter. An 18 win team can get in over a 20 win team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
NCAA Tourneys are what programs are built on- especially the 30 years since the Tourney expanded...now NIT's and stuff are good fluff and are good rewards for decent seasons- but NCAA Tourneys define your program
He's got you here Dawgs61. Getting to the tourney is the absolute best way to define your program outside of straight up national championships, which only a few teams can boast. It takes into account what your team did over the course of the whole season and takes out hot runs, which skew numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Probably the truest thing I've ever seen Coach34 post.
Total wins AND SEC ONLY wins MSU the last 20 years before Brick is the 4th winningest program and probably in tourney appearances too. Keep pulling us down though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
NCAA's the last 20 years:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
Kentucky- 18
Florida- 15
Tenn- 11
Arkansas- 9
State 8
Vandy- 7
Bama- 7
Georgia- 6
Old Misses- 6
LSU- 5
Auburn- 3
SC- 3
We're 5th when you include our best 10 year run from 1995-2004
Ok then our expectations should be on par with Arkansas, Bama and Vandy's. They aren't.
You're equating 'Expectations in Year 2 of Rick Ray's tenure' with 'Mississippi State's basketball expectations'. The two are not equal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
Ultimately, Rick Ray's expectations are identical to Rick Stansbury's. No one is arguing any differently. The difference in opinion comes when asking when Rick Ray's expectations become identical to Stansbury's. I think any logical person understands that it can't be in year two after what Ray inherited.
I don't think the expectations can be the same in year 3, either. Having said that, I am in no way arguing that Ray should be given a pass for year 3. We definitely have to show that we're making progress and make people believe we are getting to where we need to be. I think Ray's expectations should be fully identical to Stans in year 5...but once again, in no way does he get a pass through year 5. If he isn't showing the necessary improvement, he shouldn't get past year 3...or past year 4 if we do show some improvement next year.
But come year 5, if he's still here, his expectations will be 100% of what Stans' were...the expectations that he didn't meet.
This all dayQuote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Richard Williams took until Year 5 to make the NCAA's
Stands took until Year 4 to make the NCAA's
And both of these coaches had been at State recruiting the teams they inherited. Ray's expectations get higher every year now. Rebuilding is officially over
I'm at Stansbury expectations in year 3...
I'm ready to be dancing again. That said, I won't be ready to fire him for making the NIT this year and will still be convinced we're going in the right direction -- but I want consistent progress going forward until we're back being a 9-12 win SEC team consistently...
I'll stay on the fence if we're borderline NIT and come up on the short side of it. Anything less -- I'm ready for him to go. Anything more -- I'm ready to extend him...
Gee, I didn't realize that fifth in the SEC over 20 years equated to a bottom feeder team. That is news to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
I just want to know how the hell this went from a thread about Stricklin to ANOTHER pissing contest about Ray. The same old shit is getting old from both sides. Can we just table it until next January?
Yep, Stans his first team should have been in the NCAA tournament but was robbed. His second team in 1999-2000 lacked the piece he was wanting to build around (Jonathan Bender) and had JB made it to campus he would have had an NCAA tourney team his second year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Because up until this point, Stricklin's biggest profile hire is Rick Ray. I think Stricklin's legacy good or bad will be linked with this hire in the long run. Especially if he gives Ray the full 4 years even if Ray has a bad season next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg
That's wishful thinking -- as much as the majority of us would love to see it, the idiots have their minds made up and are going to raise hell about it from now on every single time they think they have an opportunity -- and after making the overall reading experience of the board miserable for over a year -- will disappear or catch amnesia if Ray turns things around. None of the ones that are overrunning the board are even capable of putting a comprehensive viewpoint together -- and I'm like a fly to the light when I see the holes in the logic...Quote:
Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg
Trying to block the idiots -- and would be ahead of the game now if everyone else would do the same -- or at least not quote them where I actually have to see what they post.
Ironically, WMD is talking about you as well I am sure...Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
I agree that this thread is now rediculousy long and apologize to you for you having to go through this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg
I think this thread wouldn't have been so long had both sides not poked at each other and the thread would have ended more then likely this morning if not for Engie's incessant poking and calling other people's viewpoints idiotic. I can take different people's view points but for some reason Engie just rubs me the wrong way.
I can take him using facts and figures to prove his viewpoint however he has an attitude that just rubs me the wrong way.
So board I apologize for dragging this thread out way too long. I apologize to Coach, Smoot, and Mic and just will say we agree to disagree on certain viewpoints. We are all bulldogs here. Let's all get along. I will even say that I will not comment again about Ray until next basketball season. Deal?
The truth is 34 and Engie are the posters who won't let the Stansbury bashing go away.I would love to just post about Rick Ray and what he has done in two years and on into the future. Stansbury is over, quit bashing Him and people will quit rebuking your post. How about let's just talk Ray.
I think 34 and Engie know that by bashing Stansbury they will create some long threads. It is more about their egos and showing how message board hip they are.
So basically he gets real expectations when the baseball stadium is done. Gotcha. Hoops is #3 and can't ever hope to compete. That's cool.
It's not about basketball not being important. It's about giving time to see what Ray can do. We gave Cohen the same time in baseball. But I guess we don't care about baseball. Our program is doomed**Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
Man you are ride or die with Stricklin. That's cool. Seriously that's a great quality to have. Not me. He ****ed us and our basketball program for five years. He can pack before Ray imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Can everyone just end this thread? It is ridiculous. Coach, can you or a moderator lock this thread? Let's just stop replying to this thread and it will go away and die a nice death.
Stricklin will be he awhile whether Rick Ray fails or notQuote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61