If he's trying to steal mins there, I wish he woulda used Warren.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopsDawg
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If he's trying to steal mins there, I wish he woulda used Warren.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopsDawg
This is a team Howland would have lost. Hell we mostly expected to lose it there at the end. Jans is a culture changer. We don't rely on one guy to carry. We've got 8 different guys that can takeover a game on any given night.
This win punctuates us being a top 15 team. A win saturday and you can't deny we're top 10. Everything in front of us.
Always a big deal to win on the road. Obviously some things to clean up but thats a solid Q1 win
For all the bitching doom and gloom (myself included) during the mid 2nd half collapse....
ESPN never had our win probability drop below 80% and Vandy never got within one score.
We won an SEC game on the road. Thats tough to do especially this season considering how good the SEC is. Hubbard and Kugel struggled, especially Kugel but there will be games like this, it happens. Good thing is we have enough depth this year to overcome it. Tonight Melendez, Cam and Harris got it done.
Jans has got to keep Kugel engaged. And he's got to put him in position to be successful. We saw the talent and what he's capable of vs Memphis and Bethune.Quote:
Originally Posted by NCMSTFAN
We could have done a lot of things better but #1, and #6 lost on the road tonight so I'll definitely take it. I'm not sure what is going on with Clary but if he's not going to be back soon I would like to see Warren when we are up by 20.
We need another ball handler.
And Kugel has to play with high energy and stay locked in. I'm sure it's tough not seeing the floor until the 13 minute mark but he needs to stay unselfish.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopsDawg
I agree with you, and as bad as Kugel played tonight we know what he is capable of doing and we will need him going forward. When he is on he is tough for anyone to stop. Sometimes he looks uninterested but I think that's just his personalityQuote:
Originally Posted by HoopsDawg
It doesn't seem like Jans fully trusts Warren yet, I'm not sure when we get Clary back so until then Kugel and Cam will have to help with ball handling duties. Let's be honest, until tonight Kugel was doing a pretty good job running some back up point considering that's not his natural position, but we do need a healthy Clary back and I hope to see him soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by LC Dawg
I would also include Nwoko in that. He was very physical tonight and we needed that.Quote:
Originally Posted by NCMSTFAN
Usually Cam runs point forward but he was on the bench with 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by NCMSTFAN
Vandy wisely pressed every time Hubbard was on the bench. That coach is going to be a problem.
Agreed, I like Nwoko.. he is athletic, has some size and has good intangibles. He isn't the bruiser type big man that we have had but he brings enough athleticism, size and hard work that he contributes. He is still young also and can develop into good SEC big as long as he continues to work hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by LC Dawg
True and Jans chose not to go with Warren so that kind of tells you he isn't ready for prime time just yet. Harris and Melendez can also bring the ball up some so again, we are lucky to have the depth we do this year but we could definitely use Clary soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopsDawg
Yes they have a pretty dang good coach, Vandy went 9-23 last year and are already 13-2 this year with some solid wins under this coach, he won alot at JMU also. The SEC is going to be very scary for years to come
With Kugel so disengaged tonight. I wonder if he is going to be our sulking violet. Or maybe his girlfriend left him and his dog died. Something was very off from the minute he entered the game.
I think MSU fans were haunted by that game against Vanderbilt where they had that dude that literally could not miss and led them to a big comeback a few years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater
That is going to be Kugel some nights. Jans probably waited a little too long to get him in and let him get in the flow of the game too. I felt like he was pressing trying to speed his way into the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainObvious
That game is old enough to drive at this point. ****ing Shan Foster hit 4 3s in the final 45 seconds of 4th/OT and we lost by 1 in OT iirc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
That was the stupidest damn game. We should have won the thing like 3 times. Memorial Gym was a graveyard for our teams in those days. Never won there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater
Another eye opening stat line is we scored 76 points on only 57 shots. 57 shots were a high number for Jans's previous couple of teams and we were reeling off about 55 points per game. Vandy did a pretty good job slowing our offense down and we also got out rebounded for the first time in a while. I hope we get some adrenaline going when Big Blue comes in the building and we get 30 point Josh back on Saturday.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeardoMSU
Can we just acknowledge how nice it is to win by 14 on the road in the SEC against a one loss team and still feel we played subpar? This team is really good, and we as fans need to enjoy this year because you never know what next year holds.
wish we could have signed South Pike's Martin --The Gators got a good oneQuote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Ricky Brown and Greg Grimm also---might have been our best team.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1eyedog
wonder how Cam gets those assist. He is so terrible with the ball. What a bad take--I want Cam with the ball-He puts extreme pressure on the opponent. He sets up everybody for easy baskets.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopsDawg
your basketball IQ is very low.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
wut? He's not saying anything wrong. When was the last time you can recall Cam taking a jump shot? There's nothing wrong with his play AT ALL, but it's not inaccurate to say he's not an offensive player.Quote:
Originally Posted by tcdog70
It is actually extremely high. I look at things from more than just an effort level. The kid gives max effort and tries really hard and is an above average to elite defender. He is however a below average offensive player. He cannot score outside 5 ft, he lacks the ability to create a shot(mostly because he has little shooting ability), and when he is pressured he tends to panic and is prone to turnovers.Quote:
Originally Posted by tcdog70
That takes nothing away from his athleticism and his defense. He has more athleticism than any of us could gain in 10 lifetimes. But I do know that from 12 ft and out I could outshoot him any day of the week. He is a more athletic and slightly less offense version of Tony Allen.
Also you did not answer the question: Is Cam Matthews one of our 5 best offensive players? If he is who do you have him in front of? I mean my rankings would be Hubbard, Kugel, Melendez, Harris, Clary(when healthy), Murphy, Jones, Warren, Matthews, Nwoko. Do you think he is better than Clary or Murphy?
Assists and offensive rebs are offensive stats.Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyDog
No doubt. Unfortunately you do not get points for those. And you need points to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Putting Matthews below Shawn Jones in offensive ability is genuinely one of the most insane things I have ever read on this board.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
Everyone knows his limitations, but what he does have is the ability to drive the basket and use his size and athleticism to score. He is by no means elite at it, but that is definitely a skill he possesses. And what he has better than anyone on our team is excellent court vision and very good passing ability. No, he is not a good jump shooter, and he is not perfect as a ball handler, but equating that completely to offensive ability is dumb.
Matthews absolutely helps make our offense go. He helps create at least 5-6 easy buckets every game, and that is hugely valuable.
I guess I put more of an emphasis on being able to score outside of 6 ft. Therefore Jones is higher in my ranking. If we need a guy to run 90 mph down the floor like Derrick Henry and dunk it, Cam Matthews is our guy. If I got to have one stop and I need to put someone on the other teams best player, Cam Matthews is our guy. But if I need to a guy to make 2 threes, go 5/7 from the FT line, and get me contested buckets, Cam Matthews is on down the list.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
You can rank him however high you want to. I tend to skew a little more NBA type or how does his game translate. Therefore I rank Matthews low on offensive ability because he will not play in the NBA outside of getting brought up here and there from a G League team.
And like I said, this is strictly offensive ability. Not the 5 best players all around on the team.
Cam Mathews is a top 10 player in college basketball. His ability to distribute, offensive rebound, get steals leading to transition baskets etc all factor into offense.
http://evanmiya.com/
I literally only specifically mentioned offense. Actually said he is the guy I want guarding the best player at the end of the game. Those rankings are factoring in defense. Of which I think he is very good to eliteQuote:
Originally Posted by Rawdawg
Steve seems to be talking more hooping / 1on1 offensive talents which Shawn Jones is better at.
In college basketball Cam Matthews is better at offense than Jones though.
It's similar saying Gardner Minshew is better on offense for the Raiders than Brock Bowers because Minshew scores more points. Just not the right way to view it imo.
Offense is more than scoring. You're arguing he isn't a scorer.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
He's 6th on the team scoring, 1st in offensive rebounds, 1st in assists.
All offensive stats.
Also 1st in turnovers, we need a ball handler to be available and ready
glad that's over. is it over?
Break it down like this:
If Jones didnt play another minute this season? We would be just fine and probably not miss him
If we lost Cam? It would hurt us alot
Cam is a player that wouldn?t score double digits every game but can win you games. Also, he can elevate the players around him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawdawg
Jones is no better than Cam outside of 6 feet.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
In 3 years Shawn Jones is 36-133 for a 27% 3 pt percentage. He has 42% overall FG percentage. Cam Matthews in 4 years is 19-96 from 3 for a 19.8% 3 pt percentage. Therefore, Jones is better.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Like I said, y'all can think what you want. I value shot making ability. He doesn't have that. If the game is on the line, I don't want the ball in his hands. Period. That has nothing to do with his defense, his dribbling, his passing, etc. It has to do with his shooting. Plain and Simple. I'm sure there are metrics that you can pull up that make him a good offensive player, but good offensive players translate to the next level. He doesn't. Not in this era. The guy is Rodman. And Rodman wouldn't get on the floor in today's NBA. If this was 1992, Cam Matthews would be a lottery pick despite the fact that he can't shoot outside of 6 ft.