Giving Croom credit

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Originally Posted by Coach007

Again, this thread is about what Croom did right. Not him as a HC.

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What are you trying to separate here? Everything he did while he was at State was as a head coach. He was a terrible head coach. Therefore almost everything he did was indeed terrible. He signed some good players. He gave a nice welcoming speech. He had a couple of good upsets. He didn't get us into more trouble with the NCAA and he left the cupboard decently stocked at a few positions for Mullen. If you're looking for more positive things to say about Croom than what I just listed you're gonna be waiting in your "Croom is Great" bunker for a very long time.

Before you continue to shit all over Jackie just remember his wife was battling cancer at the same exact time our program bottomed out.

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Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

He never coached Fletcher Cox or McPhee. So sure if you want to parse words like that, but let's not give him more credit on those. Still not a guarantee they sign with us with Croom as the head coach because Saban came after Cox hard. Hell, Croom wasn't even the head coach when they signed the dotted line on signing day.

Folks giving him credit for beating Bama are hilarious in grasping straws. Bama then isn't anything like Bama now. It's insane to even make that as a positive. If you added the win total of those 2 Bama teams Croom beat together, I believe 6 Bama teams since then have gotten that many wins or more in 1 season. So can we dispense with the garbage of "beating Bama" without providing the necessary context. Which was a bigger impact on our program, beating Bama or losing to Maine? I'll hang up and listen.

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He also coached one of the best RBs in MSU history. He went pro too. Norwood.

Fact for you. JWS was losing to Bama for 3 years or more prior. THose were also during the dark ages for Bama. 2001, Bama won 4 sec games only. 2003 they only won 2 SEC games. And MS ST was NOT beating them then.

So again... Yes, Bama had a poor decade.. 2 Coaches during that time had a chance to set beating them in motion. Only Croom beat them.

I just read where Croom inherited the best talent etc... YET during Bama dark years, JWS could not take that talent and win?? But Croom could? Can't have it both ways.

So once again.. a team with player issues to the point that the alumni was pissed. Put us on Probation. 4 of Crooms 5 years was under probation.

Mississippi State's football program was placed on probation by the NCAA for four years, stripped of eight scholarships over the next two seasons. allowed just 81 football scholarships for the 2005 and 2006 seasons, and are limited to 45 expense-paid recruiting visits in each of the 2004-05 and 2005-06 academic years
-- 11 per year fewer than the maximum allowed by the NCAA. JWS had Ms ST considered a repeat offender because the school also lost 13 scholarships after an investigation in 1996.

There was a massive cloud over Ms St at that time. So yeah, recruiting was bad... But he still managed to get better classes than the previous year. And when that cloud/reductions/visits was lifted.... The recruiting got better.

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Originally Posted by gravedigger

To sum this up: the NCAA decided to pound us ultimately for hiring Jackie Sherrill. So they did with a 3 year investigation that buried us no matter the penalties. To keep the penalties mitigated, we hired a decent man and the SECs first black head coach. It worked. The penalties were not in line with the length of the investigation. He was also not ready to run a program starting in that condition, but he did the best he could and did in fact build team cohesion.

You aren?t going to get many message board fans to praise his work. That said, Its long past time State fans let it go with bashing the man. I question whether anyone could have recovered our program in under 5 years.

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That's correct. And few people were going to come in and take the reins of a team that had a total of 8 wins in 3 season with 2 of those being SEC wins that had the NCAA going all out on them. It wasn't a winning program and the NCAA was hammer it.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Before you continue to shit all over Jackie just remember his wife was battling cancer at the same exact time our program bottomed out.

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I get it. Not saying anything other than what Croom walked into regardless the situation. JWS saw our University get hammered as a repeat offender.

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Originally Posted by Coach007

I get it. Not saying anything other than what Croom walked into regardless the situation. JWS saw our University get hammered as a repeat offender.

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True but the NCAA was also out to get Sherrill. They couldn't of given two shits about Croom or what he did while here. Not saying we should have but if we were ever gonna cheat our asses off the best time was probably under Croom since once we hired him the NCAA immediately went sniffing elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

True but the NCAA was also out to get Sherrill.

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That doesn't really have a part of the conversation and I hope he wins in court. The only thing that pertains to this conversation is where we were and how Croom gets credit for guiding through those years.

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but if we were ever gonna cheat our asses off the best time was probably under Croom since once we hired him the NCAA immediately went sniffing elsewhere.

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We were repeat offenders.. that was our status and you wanted us to cheat? SERIOUSLY?

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Before you continue to shit all over Jackie just remember his wife was battling cancer at the same exact time our program bottomed out.

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He was also being harassed by the NCAA/Ole Miss witch hunt for his last 2 or 3 years which made it very difficult to sign HS players for the long term (remember the approx 22 JC players in one class disaster) or keep asst coaches ( last year or so was a halfway house for over the hill ex- head coaches.). BTW, Jackie was never implicated directly in any of the violations.

Croom was a dud. Blamed all his failures on someone else. Again, why did bama not hire him when they had the opening? Answer, they knew he was not head coach material. So did the NFL, career RB coach, before and after his time at State.

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Originally Posted by Coach007

That doesn't really have a part of the conversation and I hope he wins in court. The only thing that pertains to this conversation is where we were and how Croom gets credit for guiding through those years.



We were repeat offenders.. that was our status and you wanted us to cheat? SERIOUSLY?

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Anyone who fell asleep on a recruit's sofa during a visit probably couldn't have stayed awake long enough to introduce the bagman!*****

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Originally Posted by Coach007

\We were repeat offenders.. that was our status and you wanted us to cheat? SERIOUSLY?

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You can't read apparently cause I literally said "not saying we should have". The point is that the NCAA wasn't paying any attention to Croom so he coulda gotten away with murder if he wanted to. To praise him for not getting us in NCAA trouble while the NCAA doesn't give a 17 what he does is dumb praise.

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Originally Posted by Coach007

JWS's last 3 years, were horrible and resulted in MSU on probation. Never won more than 3 games. His last year we won only 2.

We lost to:

2003:
Tulane
Houston
Did not win a single SEC game

2002:

Lost every SEC game.

2001:

Lost to TROY St At HOME COMING


Again, this thread is about what Croom did right. Not him as a HC.

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Not to nitpick, but we did win a SEC game in 2003 over Jay Cutler and Vandy 30-21. I was there.

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Originally Posted by Coach007

No.. I will say it again. This thread is not about his record. This thread is not "Croom was a great HC". Learn to differentiate in what's being said.

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What? Differentiate what is being said.. Dude what is being said is your are a dumbass for thinking that Sly did jackshit anything but take millions for not a damn thing but bringing embarrassment to MSU.

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Originally Posted by Coach007

He also coached one of the best RBs in MSU history. He went pro too. Norwood.

Fact for you. JWS was losing to Bama for 3 years or more prior. THose were also during the dark ages for Bama. 2001, Bama won 4 sec games only. 2003 they only won 2 SEC games. And MS ST was NOT beating them then.

So again... Yes, Bama had a poor decade.. 2 Coaches during that time had a chance to set beating them in motion. Only Croom beat them.

I just read where Croom inherited the best talent etc... YET during Bama dark years, JWS could not take that talent and win?? But Croom could? Can't have it both ways.

So once again.. a team with player issues to the point that the alumni was pissed. Put us on Probation. 4 of Crooms 5 years was under probation.

Mississippi State's football program was placed on probation by the NCAA for four years, stripped of eight scholarships over the next two seasons. allowed just 81 football scholarships for the 2005 and 2006 seasons, and are limited to 45 expense-paid recruiting visits in each of the 2004-05 and 2005-06 academic years
-- 11 per year fewer than the maximum allowed by the NCAA. JWS had Ms ST considered a repeat offender because the school also lost 13 scholarships after an investigation in 1996.

There was a massive cloud over Ms St at that time. So yeah, recruiting was bad... But he still managed to get better classes than the previous year. And when that cloud/reductions/visits was lifted.... The recruiting got better.

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JWS beat some good Bama teams and Bama was up and down back then; he beat some ranked Bama teams and Bama won SEC in 1999. Yes they tanked at end of JWS years and during Croom years. JWS had a very, very talented freshman class that he left Croom - fact. As others mentioned, JWS had a wife battling cancer and had to take his brother off life support in those final years. He also had a bad JUCO group as well as some real bad assist coaches at the end did JWS in. JWS didn't have great talent on D.

The NCAA had an ax to grind; what was so bad that MSU did to deserve a 4 year punishment? Compared to outright cheating today, they owe us an apology and 10-15 scholarships on top of 85 today for the junk going on at other schools who get a free ride - Auburn, LSU, Bama, OleMiss, etc.

I have no clue what makes anyone say he is a good man. He was lazy, took millions to do a job poorly and then blamed anyone but himself when fired. I will admit I don’t know him personally but show me evidence he was good. I have not seen any to date. He still is bitter for getting fired for doing a horrible job and does not understand that he sucked as a head coach.

I supported him when he was our coach but he lost me at 3-2

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Originally Posted by tcdog70

What? Differentiate what is being said.. Dude what is being said is your are a dumbass for thinking that Sly did jackshit anything but take millions for not a damn thing but bringing embarrassment to MSU.

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The embarrassment were the things done that made us a repeat offender and put our program in the gutter. It's dumb for you to think otherwise.

I have no clue what makes anyone say he is a good man. He was lazy, took millions to do a job poorly and then blamed anyone but himself when fired. I will admit I don’t know him personally but show me evidence he was good. I have not seen any to date. He still is bitter for getting fired for doing a horrible job and does not understand that he sucked as a head coach.

I supported him when he was our coach but he lost me at 3-2

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JWS had a very, very talented freshman class that he left Croom - fact.

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A class does not make a team. You should know that from looking at the Mullen years. NEVER THE LESS JWS HAD THOSE 2 CLASSES for 2 years and won 5 games with them.

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He also had a bad JUCO group as well as some real bad assist coaches at the end did JWS in. JWS didn't have great talent on D.

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Wait, so we praise JWS (who is solely responsible for our repeat offender status) for having bad coaches, but knock Croom over it? We bash Croom over it being hard to recruit during the 4 years Ms ST was on probation with loss of post season play, scholarships, and visits but it's excusable for JWS?

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what was so bad that MSU did to deserve a 4 year punishment?

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I understand, but what does that have to do with the cloud that Croom stepped into?

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Compared to outright cheating today, they owe us an apology and 10-15 scholarships on top of 85 today for the junk going on at other schools who get a free ride - Auburn, LSU, Bama, OleMiss, etc.

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I can get on board with that.

croom was a breath of fresh air cuz it was something new for a period. thats it he sucked

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Originally Posted by Coach007

A class does not make a team. You should know that from looking at the Mullen years. NEVER THE LESS JWS HAD THOSE 2 CLASSES for 2 years and won 5 games with them.

Never said a class made a team, you are mixing my comments with others. But to say he had no talent as some have said is not true. Many parade all americans in that freshmen class that JWS left Croom, not as good as what Joe walked into for sure. No one is saying Croom had an easy job the first year or even two but the program ran off the cliff under his watch - 5 years of it. Greg Byrne was the best thing to happen to MSU when he came. He would not accept failure and demanded accountability. Crooms response on the special says it all. He didn't get enough time. He has no clue about coaching big time NCAA football. He had 5 years and hadn't improved anything.

JWS and Mullen both took what little talent they inherited from previous coaches and competed instantly. History speaks for it self.


Wait, so we praise JWS (who is solely responsible for our repeat offender status) for having bad coaches, but knock Croom over it? We bash Croom over it being hard to recruit during the 4 years Ms ST was on probation with loss of post season play, scholarships, and visits but it's excusable for JWS?

Who said we praised JWS for the last coaching hires? JWS had been at MSU for over a decade of success and winning. hard to keep it going and not have a bad hire or two. A lot of bad things happened at the same time in the end. Croom on the other hand stood by bad assistants and did not change one thing in 5 years. Apples and oranges.


I understand, but what does that have to do with the cloud that Croom stepped into? Everything because you were blaming JWS for it, For most teams what we did would not even get investigated much less any penalties. JWS got penalized because he was winning at MSU and it was an easy way to get him back. JWS had been at another big school, nothing would have happened.



I can get on board with that.

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Great we agree on something.

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Originally Posted by Hot Rock

I have no clue what makes anyone say he is a good man. He was lazy, took millions to do a job poorly and then blamed anyone but himself when fired. I will admit I don’t know him personally but show me evidence he was good. I have not seen any to date. He still is bitter for getting fired for doing a horrible job and does not understand that he sucked as a head coach.

I supported him when he was our coach but he lost me at 3-2

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This also, 3-2. Worse college game I have seen in 50 plus years at State! BTW, how many of you permanent officers of the Sly Croom Fan Club would hire he and Woody again? Again, why did bama, his alma mater, who actually had a spring practice award named after him, not hire him?