Joe Moorhead article in The Athletic

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05-02-2019, 08:57 PM
bulldawg28

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

Guys, some of you don't seem to understand how good our defense was. We may never see that again. We don't get many 5 star DT's like Simmons especially at the same time we have an NFL edge rusher, NFL LB's, and NFL DB's. And it was a veteran group coupled with a solid D-coordinator.

The Croom comment is not a reach. As I said all year, we could have run the T formation and won 9 games like my pee wee team did.

1999 defense was better imo. Every level had NFL talent and it was deeper. That defense just didn't get the TV exposure
05-02-2019, 09:00 PM
HoopsDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulldawg28

1999 defense was better imo. Every level had NFL talent and it was deeper. That defense just didn't get the TV exposure

I loved the 99 defense. And they went 10-2.
05-02-2019, 09:09 PM
Poindexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by FriarsPoint

He has to be better at adapting. That is the huge red flag that went up last year. Luginbill?s quote is a surprise to no one
that followed things closely the last four years. The surprise is the coaching staff couldn?t see a mile away what everybody else could. Yet he kept trying to beat a square peg into a round hole.

Nonsense. There were only 7 teams I think who ran the ball a greater percentage of time than Miss. State last year. There is no amount of "adapting" to satisfy some of our idiot fans. RUN THE DANG BAWWWLLL, COACH!!!

Deal with facts instead of warped perception and see what the world looks like.
05-02-2019, 09:22 PM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poindexter

Nonsense. There were only 7 teams I think who ran the ball a greater percentage of time than Miss. State last year. There is no amount of "adapting" to satisfy some of our idiot fans. RUN THE DANG BAWWWLLL, COACH!!!

Deal with facts instead of warped perception and see what the world looks like.

It isn't just runs most of us wanted... we wanted rb carries. Here's rb carry % for the last 2 years:

2018 - 243 rb runs/ 514 total team runs = .473
2017 - 377 rb runs / 634 total team runs = .595

In 2017, Aeris had 236 rushes... that's 7 less than all the RBs combined in 2018
05-02-2019, 09:32 PM
Tbonewannabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

It isn't just runs most of us wanted... we wanted rb carries. Here's rb carry % for the last 2 years:

2018 - 243 rb runs/ 514 total team runs = .473
2017 - 377 rb runs / 634 total team runs = .595

In 2017, Aeris had 236 rushes... that's 7 less than all the RBs combined in 2018

It boils down to this : Fitz either wasn't comfortable making the read or just decided to keep the ball. Neither Moorhead or Mullen's offense has many direct hand offs to the RB. People bitching about the plays Moorhead ran, the exact same things could be said about our offense the last decade.
05-02-2019, 09:53 PM
Coach34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

It boils down to this : Fitz either wasn't comfortable making the read or just decided to keep the ball. Neither Moorhead or Mullen's offense has many direct hand offs to the RB. People bitching about the plays Moorhead ran, the exact same things could be said about our offense the last decade.

lol- seriously- nobody can really think this is true right???

We had 377 runs in 2017- do you really think Fitz read every one of those? Hayyyyyle no- there we alot of designed handoffs.

A good offensive coach gets the ball where he wants it and adjusts to his QB. Lane Kiffin is a great example. He coached Coker in 2015 and was successful. Then made a total switch with Hurts in 2016 as a true Freshman. Thats coaching. He adjusted to what he had. Their offense changed in those years.

Our coach refused to change our offense to fit the personnel. That is my complaint and what should worry the fanbase. Croom was the same way
05-02-2019, 10:48 PM
TUSK

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

lol- seriously- nobody can really think this is true right???

We had 377 runs in 2017- do you really think Fitz read every one of those? Hayyyyyle no- there we alot of designed handoffs.

A good offensive coach gets the ball where he wants it and adjusts to his QB. Lane Kiffin is a great example. He coached Coker in 2015 and was successful. Then made a total switch with Hurts in 2016 as a true Freshman. Thats coaching. He adjusted to what he had. Their offense changed in those years.

Our coach refused to change our offense to fit the personnel. That is my complaint and what should worry the fanbase. Croom was the same way

I'm down with this.... I also think it's not mutually exclusive to what Tbone was sayin'....

Joe either overestimated the aptitude/IQ/talent of his team, or he's obstinate and/or dumb, himself.

Additionally, the 1999 defense (as a whole) would prison rape the 2018 version.
05-02-2019, 11:28 PM
DancingRabbit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

lol- seriously- nobody can really think this is true right???

We had 377 runs in 2017- do you really think Fitz read every one of those? Hayyyyyle no- there we alot of designed handoffs.

A good offensive coach gets the ball where he wants it and adjusts to his QB. Lane Kiffin is a great example. He coached Coker in 2015 and was successful. Then made a total switch with Hurts in 2016 as a true Freshman. Thats coaching. He adjusted to what he had. Their offense changed in those years.

Our coach refused to change our offense to fit the personnel. That is my complaint and what should worry the fanbase. Croom was the same way

Designed or option these are the rushing numbers for our running backs the last 4 years. I think this is regular season only, since someone on here deemed bowl results don't matter.

In 2015 RBs ran for 875 yds on 191 attempts for a 4.58 avg and scored 3 TDs.
In 2016 RBs ran for 1221 yds on 245 attempts for a 4.99 avg and scored 6 TDs.
In 2017 RBs ran for 1677 yds on 350 attempts for a 4.70 avg and scored 9 TDs.
In 2018 RBs ran for 1576 yds on 253 attempts for a 6.2 avg and scored 9 TDs.

A hundred more hand-offs for a hundred more yards and the same number of TDs. Talk amongst yourselves.
05-02-2019, 11:32 PM
confucius say

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us

DT: Cox and Boyd vs Simmons and Thomas is a draw, but the depth behind them goes to '18.

DE: Eulls and Ferguson vs Sweat and Green... not even close to the same ballpark, and 18's backups are way better too.

LB: Wells and Wilson and Lawrence vs Gay and Thompson and Lewis... I think Gay and Thompson will be first 3 round picks and Lewis will get picked up by someone. So '18 has more talent imo

CB: Banks and Broomfield vs Dantzler and Peters and Cole/Landrews. '11 wins but not by much (Dantzler is a stud and the others were solid).

S: Whitley and Mitchell and Bonner vs Abram and McLaurin and Rayford. '18 wins each of these matchups if you go in order.

So I'd say '11 matches up to '18 at DT, LB, and CB, but has no clear advantage in any of them and has a MASSIVE talent deficit at DE. '18 had 3 first rounders, a DE taken late, and has at least 3 more starters that will get taken in the first 3 rounds this year... '11 had what, Cox and Mitchell get taken and then Boyd and Banks the year after that? There's clearly a ton more talent on the '18 team

Just going to ignore slay on 11? The best cb on the planet right now
05-03-2019, 12:00 AM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulldawg28

1999 defense was better imo. Every level had NFL talent and it was deeper. That defense just didn't get the TV exposure

I definitely liked the 1999 defense better.

My dream is to one day see a top flight MSU offense and MSU defense on the same team at the same time. Even MSU's very best teams I don't think can say that they had both. Maybe 1998 or 1980 were the closest to having both?
05-03-2019, 12:05 AM
Poindexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by DancingRabbit

Designed or option these are the rushing numbers for our running backs the last 4 years. I think this is regular season only, since someone on here deemed bowl results don't matter.

In 2015 RBs ran for 875 yds on 191 attempts for a 4.58 avg and scored 3 TDs.
In 2016 RBs ran for 1221 yds on 245 attempts for a 4.99 avg and scored 6 TDs.
In 2017 RBs ran for 1677 yds on 350 attempts for a 4.70 avg and scored 9 TDs.
In 2018 RBs ran for 1576 yds on 253 attempts for a 6.2 avg and scored 9 TDs.

A hundred more hand-offs for a hundred more yards and the same number of TDs. Talk amongst yourselves.

They are not interested in facts. It is funny, really.
05-03-2019, 12:08 AM
Poindexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

It isn't just runs most of us wanted... we wanted rb carries. Here's rb carry % for the last 2 years:

2018 - 243 rb runs/ 514 total team runs = .473
2017 - 377 rb runs / 634 total team runs = .595

In 2017, Aeris had 236 rushes... that's 7 less than all the RBs combined in 2018

I see.

The criticism has now moved from RUN THE DANG BAWWWLLL, COACH!!! To RUN THE DANG BAWWWLLL DIFFERENTLY, COACH!!! HE AINT ADAPTING PROPERLY!
05-03-2019, 07:06 AM
Tbonewannabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by DancingRabbit

Designed or option these are the rushing numbers for our running backs the last 4 years. I think this is regular season only, since someone on here deemed bowl results don't matter.

In 2015 RBs ran for 875 yds on 191 attempts for a 4.58 avg and scored 3 TDs.
In 2016 RBs ran for 1221 yds on 245 attempts for a 4.99 avg and scored 6 TDs.
In 2017 RBs ran for 1677 yds on 350 attempts for a 4.70 avg and scored 9 TDs.
In 2018 RBs ran for 1576 yds on 253 attempts for a 6.2 avg and scored 9 TDs.

A hundred more hand-offs for a hundred more yards and the same number of TDs. Talk amongst yourselves.

We also ran less plays in 2018 so the percentage would be higher.
05-03-2019, 07:44 AM
HoopsDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by TUSK

I'm down with this.... I also think it's not mutually exclusive to what Tbone was sayin'....

Joe either overestimated the aptitude/IQ/talent of his team, or he's obstinate and/or dumb, himself.

Or maybe his system isn't a good fit at MSU.
05-03-2019, 08:11 AM
BrunswickDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poindexter

I see.

The criticism has now moved from RUN THE DANG BAWWWLLL, COACH!!! To RUN THE DANG BAWWWLLL DIFFERENTLY, COACH!!! HE AINT ADAPTING PROPERLY!

That's the thing - he did adapt.

At PSU, he had one of the best college RB of the past decade and ran his RBs -
'16 - 326 rb runs/540 total team runs = .603 for 2406 total rushing yards
'17 - 267 rb runs/451 total team runs = .592 for 2212 total rushing yards

Then he has the best running QB in SEC history and - I know this will be shocking - uses him basically as a top line running back.
05-03-2019, 08:11 AM
confucius say

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

Or maybe his system isn't a good fit at MSU.

All about getting the right personnel. Primarily at qb. Can he get that here?
05-03-2019, 08:32 AM
Poindexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

That's the thing - he did adapt.

At PSU, he had one of the best college RB of the past decade and ran his RBs -
'16 - 326 rb runs/540 total team runs = .603 for 2406 total rushing yards
'17 - 267 rb runs/451 total team runs = .592 for 2212 total rushing yards

Then he has the best running QB in SEC history and - I know this will be shocking - uses him basically as a top line running back.

Of course he adapted. It is our super genius fans who can't figure it out.

Just like they will bitch about Fitz carrying the BAWWWLLL 3 times from the 1 in the Outback Bowl, but nary a peep that on a critical 3rd & 2 in the 4th Qtr with about 4:00 minutes remaining it was Aries Williams not picking up the yardage. Selective memory.
05-03-2019, 10:16 AM
Johnson85

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

Croom wouldn't have won @KSU. KSU ended up having one of the top defenses in the Big 12, not great but not a gimme. These entire Croom comparisons to Moorhead might as well compare Mullen to Saban. I don't know how we didn't win a National Title in 2014 so Mullen must suck.

He certainly would have been capable of losing that game, but our team this year was basically 2007 on steroids. Much better defense and better talent on offense, so it seems reasonably likely that we still would have pulled that game out, even if the score would have looked a lot different. Agree that comparing Croom to MOorhead is crazy, but our team was set up this year where 6 wins were pretty likely even with bad coaching.
05-03-2019, 10:24 AM
Tbonewannabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnson85

He certainly would have been capable of losing that game, but our team this year was basically 2007 on steroids. Much better defense and better talent on offense, so it seems reasonably likely that we still would have pulled that game out, even if the score would have looked a lot different. Agree that comparing Croom to MOorhead is crazy, but our team was set up this year where 6 wins were pretty likely even with bad coaching.

I would agree that Croom might have won 6 games but it is just as likely that Mullen didn't win more than 8. There are plenty of examples of Mullen's offense shitting the bed against top 25 defenses on the road. This whole exercise of shitting on the current coaching staff is doing nothing but bring negativity into the program. There is plenty of time to show you are pissed off if Moorhead loses any OOC games or UM, Ark, or UK this year.

I think UT is a push, I think we will have the better team but it is on the road so that has a way of leveling things. Looking back, Moorhead won the toss up games or the games that were slight upsets in AU and aTm but lost the toss up games in UK and UF.

Oddly enough, if our defense was just top 25 (better than almost every single Mullen defense) and the offense just lost those 4 games 23-20 then most people are 17ing happy. Not many people expected our secondary to go from giving up big plays to being shut down (which was the difference in the improvement).
05-03-2019, 10:38 AM
smootness

Quote:

Originally Posted by confucius say

Just going to ignore slay on 11? The best cb on the planet right now

Slay wasn't a starter that year.

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