Sunday Morning QB- We Won Edition

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Actually I have attended every college game he has played in considering he played special teams last night. One of the ONLY freshmen to play last night.

So, basically in your head you "won" the debate by stooping things down to a Genespage level? All the while I obviously have seen these players more than you- but since I'm not a coach that doesn't matter. The fact that Coman continues to stink it up despite a large amount of college experience is also apparently irrelevant to you- but Peters has to have a ton of college experience for you to believe. What's YOUR agenda?

And in the meantime you say the coaches won't play someone that isn't a better option- the SAME coaching staff that chose to play Tyler over Dak, Perkins over Robinson, hasn't started Chris Jones until this year, and believed that Devon Bell could kick a field goal 65 yards. I'm not claiming to be Bill Walsh- but let's not pretend that our coaches are infallible.

But according to you, I can't have an opinion since I don't coach and don't live with the players everyday.

As for me, I'm glad I can actually think for myself without having to move the goal posts to make myself feel good.

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I find it funny that your stance on Mullen and this team is similar to what you feverishly argue against during baseball season in regards to Cohen...JMO.

As for this post in particular, you do realize that jones played a ton last year. He didn't play the first series much but he played more than many others. And for the millionth time...Robinson didn't play over perk because he couldn't get his act together off the field. That's it...that's the reason. If folks don't pull their end of the load in all aspects Mullen won't play them. It's a main reason we have the work ethic and development within the program that we have. Without a commitment to excellence on and off the field we wouldn't be successful. It is one of the reasons Mullen has the record he does and has led us to one of our greatest stretches ever.

There are adjustment I would personally like to see made in scheme and personnel but at the end of the day I'm not in position to say my thoughts are any better than someone who's livelihood is based on game results AND sees these guys everyday.

If LSU runs us off the field I will change my tune but until then I can think of a ton of reasons why last nite went the way it did and none affect my thoughts or feelings on how the rest of the year will go. I like my crow medium rare.**

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Are you trying to be this ridiculous? Where did I say freshmen shouldn't play??

I said YOU have no knowledge of a freshman being "better than ______", because YOU haven't seen them in action. DAN and MANNY have...so for YOU to say Dan is stupid for not starting Peters, Jenkins, McLaurin, or D Gray "in the slot", is absurd because YOU haven't seen them play, so YOU don't have the info to make that statement except for hearsay and Hudl.

DAN and DIAZ do have that info, Bc DAN and DIAZ are at every practice and scrimmage, and they know if the youngsters are comprehending the scheme and plays to go with their obvious talent. Mullen played Jackson, Dear, Johnson, AND Peters....so clearly they aren't "too dumb" to play talented freshmen. He is actually smart enough not to put them in position to fail if they aren't ready yet.

It's not brain surgery, Todd. Don't know why you get so upset just Bc someone disagrees and cites why. But I'll bow out now. You keep telling Mullen how much better those freshmen are than those Seniors though.

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You know what- I will.

And if you don't like my opinion on it that's fine. I don't give a shit. You asked why I thought that Coman was bad and why I thought Peters was good. You didn't like the response because you thought it was "asinine". If don't want my opinion- don't ask for it. And if you give a response that is as incredibly stupid as the ones you gave- I'll definitely let you know. If I was Paul Brown you wouldn't have liked my response- so **** off.

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Originally Posted by shoeless joe

I find it funny that your stance on Mullen and this team is similar to what you feverishly argue against during baseball season in regards to Cohen...JMO.

As for this post in particular, you do realize that jones played a ton last year. He didn't play the first series much but he played more than many others. And for the millionth time...Robinson didn't play over perk because he couldn't get his act together off the field. That's it...that's the reason. If folks don't pull their end of the load in all aspects Mullen won't play them. It's a main reason we have the work ethic and development within the program that we have. Without a commitment to excellence on and off the field we wouldn't be successful. It is one of the reasons Mullen has the record he does and has led us to one of our greatest stretches ever.

There are adjustment I would personally like to see made in scheme and personnel but at the end of the day I'm not in position to say my thoughts are any better than someone who's livelihood is based on game results AND sees these guys everyday.

If LSU runs us off the field I will change my tune but until then I can think of a ton of reasons why last nite went the way it did and none affect my thoughts or feelings on how the rest of the year will go. I like my crow medium rare.**

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Absolutely remember on Jones. I thought he should have played more and started though.

Robinson was definitely an enigma. Do you play the guy who maybe doesn't have the best work ethic but produces more over the guy who works hard and isn't as productive? I think the solution would have been to use Perkins differently and not as much between the tackles and more on screens and things like that.

And for the billionth time- I'm just giving my opinion. I'm not saying I'm a better coach than Dan. I definitely have a strong opinion on it. All I want to see us do is play the best people and maybe give others a fair chance to perform that maybe haven't yet- which would settle this debate once and for all. As it is right now- we definitely have some holes and if I was Dan and my livelihood was depending on it, I would definitely try to find a solution ASAP. One way or the other.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

You know what- I will.

And if you don't like my opinion on it that's fine. I don't give a shit. You asked why I thought that Coman was bad and why I thought Peters was good. You didn't like the response because you thought it was "asinine". If don't want my opinion- don't ask for it. And if you give a response that is as incredibly stupid as the ones you gave- I'll definitely let you know. If I was Paul Brown you wouldn't have liked my response- so **** off.

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"**** off"? Ok.

Panties clearly not bunched.*

Paul Brown? Umm...k

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Absolutely remember on Jones. I thought he should have played more and started though.

Robinson was definitely an enigma. Do you play the guy who maybe doesn't have the best work ethic but produces more over the guy who works hard and isn't as productive? I think the solution would have been to use Perkins differently and not as much between the tackles and more on screens and things like that.

And for the billionth time- I'm just giving my opinion. I'm not saying I'm a better coach than Dan. I definitely have a strong opinion on it. All I want to see us do is play the best people and maybe give others a fair chance to perform that maybe haven't yet- which would settle this debate once and for all. As it is right now- we definitely have some holes and if I was Dan and my livelihood was depending on it, I would definitely try to find a solution ASAP. One way or the other.

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Todd I think that last part is a big reason your opinion draws so much criticism. Do you really think these coaches are just playing favoritism with as much riding on their success and as much success they have already had here? That we truly have an informed opinion on things when we are not living it as much as these coaches are. And make no mistake they make a lot of money but the hours they spend to come up the game plans and personnel groupings, continued evaluations, recruiting, etc. It is mind boggling and if you really stepped back and thought about it you would see that whatever problems we see now is the answer to what they have been studying for weeks and they are already working on the next problem that we don't even know about. Doesn't mean they necessarily like the solution but at this point in time it's the best they believe they have from a completely informed perspective. That's what most have been saying to you. It's not just about your opinion but your opinion from such a lack of information. You wouldn't make these same judgements about a baseball player and Cohen but you have a pretty big snap judgment with Mullen and it's not that he is always right. It's just he is going to be right over us strictly because he has so much more information that he has already gone through because it is his staffs job on the line. The program he envisions and how it will be accomplished (and a major part of that is what he expects from the players and the rite of playing time inside the program, which has most definitely worked).

Break it up, boys! Everyone shake hands and no more fighting**

If this is how we react in a win, I hate to see a loss.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Break it up, boys! Everyone shake hands and no more fighting**

If this is how we react in a win, I hate to see a loss.

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Gif battle to the death if we lose. *

Ok everybody repeat after me - GOOSEFRABBAHHH!!!

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Not nearly as asinine as expecting true freshmen to have college experience and then accusing me of never having seen them. Because true freshmen NEVER play anywhere all across the country. So I guess all of those other coaches that play true freshmen over experienced players are crazy too, right? Or do they need to consult the great Dan? Did you really expect me to say that I saw them at practice? This is ****ing stupid.

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Mullen does tend to start guys with more seniority, but when there are younger guys that are more talented and are ready to play (e.g. Chris Jones, Bear Wilson and Will Redmond), they get as much, and in some cases more playing time than the "starter" does......and seeing as how Peters/McLaurin didn't get a single rep at safety last night, you sound like a ****ing idiot when you blindly proclaim them to be our best options after having been on campus for 3 months, based on the HUDL highlight videos you watched.

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What do you think MLB scouts use with high school and college baseball players? You think their scouting directors tell them they're silly because they're watching players that aren't going up against pro players? You don't like me using it because it's a hell of a lot more than you have. What do you think our college coaches use to evaluate high school players on?

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What? Using HUDL to evaluate high school prospects is not the same as using HUDL to identify the best players on a college team. The best players on a college team are identified during practice, when they are playing against other college players.......which is why you get called out for adamantly disagreeing with the people who have been to practices and say that Coman is the best safety on the team and its not close.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Todd I think that last part is a big reason your opinion draws so much criticism. Do you really think these coaches are just playing favoritism with as much riding on their success and as much success they have already had here? That we truly have an informed opinion on things when we are not living it as much as these coaches are. And make no mistake they make a lot of money but the hours they spend to come up the game plans and personnel groupings, continued evaluations, recruiting, etc. It is mind boggling and if you really stepped back and thought about it you would see that whatever problems we see now is the answer to what they have been studying for weeks and they are already working on the next problem that we don't even know about. Doesn't mean they necessarily like the solution but at this point in time it's the best they believe they have from a completely informed perspective. That's what most have been saying to you. It's not just about your opinion but your opinion from such a lack of information. You wouldn't make these same judgements about a baseball player and Cohen but you have a pretty big snap judgment with Mullen and it's not that he is always right. It's just he is going to be right over us strictly because he has so much more information that he has already gone through because it is his staffs job on the line. The program he envisions and how it will be accomplished (and a major part of that is what he expects from the players and the rite of playing time inside the program, which has most definitely worked).

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I believe that they do value hard work and will reward that over a guy that is a hard worker over a guy that is more talented that doesn't work as hard. And it is a very difficult situation for them when they have something like Perkins and Robinson. If that is "playing favorites" then yeah I think they do in certain cases. I do not believe that they do anything that they intend to not work or hurt the program.

As far as Cohen- I've pretty much railed Butch over the handing of the pitching staff- which was the downfall of our season IMO. I've also been critical of Cohen on some things as well- Frost, not recruiting power hitters that weren't draft risks, too many JUCO's etc.

At the same time, if Ben Howland doesn't start Malik Newman, are we just going to go along with that too? Or he is above questioning as well? Just give me a heads up. Since Malik doesn't have any college experience as well.

How many posters on here post information about things that they have heard through the grapevine or whatever? Do you really think that everyone that doles out info is hanging out with the coaches every day? Some sure, but probably most don't. So now all of a sudden I have to have a massive amount of information to have an opinion on something for it to be accepted?

I believe that I should be able to have an opinion and not be told that I have to be a coach at practice to validate that opinion.

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Originally Posted by sandwolf

Mullen does tend to start guys with more seniority, but when there are younger guys that are more talented and are ready to play (e.g. Chris Jones, Bear Wilson and Will Redmond), they get as much, and in some cases more playing time than the "starter" does......and seeing as how Peters/McLaurin didn't get a single rep at safety last night, you sound like a ****ing idiot when you blindly proclaim them to be our best options after having been on campus for 3 months, based on the HUDL highlight videos you watched.



What? Using HUDL to evaluate high school prospects is not the same as using HUDL to identify the best players on a college team. The best players on a college team are identified during practice, when they are playing against other college players.......which is why you get called out for adamantly disagreeing with the people who have been to practices and say that Coman is the best safety on the team and its not close.

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http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Y083uOcg1f...U/s400/7ac.jpg

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Originally Posted by sandwolf

Mullen does tend to start guys with more seniority, but when there are younger guys that are more talented and are ready to play (e.g. Chris Jones, Bear Wilson and Will Redmond), they get as much, and in some cases more playing time than the "starter" does......and seeing as how Peters/McLaurin didn't get a single rep at safety last night, you sound like a ****ing idiot when you blindly proclaim them to be our best options after having been on campus for 3 months, based on the HUDL highlight videos you watched.



What? Using HUDL to evaluate high school prospects is not the same as using HUDL to identify the best players on a college team. The best players on a college team are identified during practice, when they are playing against other college players.......which is why you get called out for adamantly disagreeing with the people who have been to practices and say that Coman is the best safety on the team and its not close.

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I used HUDL for ONE player- which was Gray. I have seen Peters and McLaurin play in person. Just like your boy Steve Robertson. You call him sheriff. You call me a ****ing idiot.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

EVERYONE STAY CALM! DAN WON'T BE VANILLA IN SEC PLAY! I PROMISE! IT WILL BE DIFFERENT THIS TIME! COMAN IS THE SECOND COMING OF RONNIE LOTT!!!

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You realize everything you have said could just as equally be quoted the same way. Last night it didn't look like our players on defense were getting beat. They missed tackles and weren't where the ball was going, but it wasn't a lack of talent where guys were getting burnt like last year (prime example is the UAB game). We did the exact same thing last year against USM which is why I don't understand your "IT WILL BE DIFFERENT THIS TIME!". We don't play the same gameplan when a game is in question. Hell defensively we played different week to week depending on who we played. Arkansas would have destroyed us last year if we played the same scheme that we did last night. Literally nothing to be taken from the game other than at least our guys weren't getting burnt by CUSA players like they did last year.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I used HUDL for ONE player- which was Gray. I have seen Peters and McLaurin play in person. Just like your boy Steve Robertson. You call him sheriff. You call me a ****ing idiot.

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Robertson isn't saying Jenkins should start, Peters should start, and Gray should be in the slot. He's also not overreacting like a crazy person over a game we won.

Just sayin

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Robertson isn't saying Jenkins should start, Peters should start, and Gray should be in the slot. He's also not overreacting like a crazy person over a game we won.

You're definitely less Sherriff and more the other on this topic. Just my opinion.

You're typically a great guy...not sure why this topic has been so tough.

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I said Gray should be the punt returner- not start over Ross in the slot.

It's frustrating to me because I think we have a chance to have a special season and I see these glaring weaknesses and a LOT of the same issues from last year coupled with a lack of intensity and I'm afraid it's going to lead us to underachieve again like last year. And then I see people like you say "oh well, the coaches know what they're doing and you're not at practice so neahh."

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Originally Posted by aerodawg

You realize everything you have said could just as equally be quoted the same way. Last night it didn't look like our players on defense were getting beat. They missed tackles and weren't where the ball was going, but it wasn't a lack of talent where guys were getting burnt like last year (prime example is the UAB game). We did the exact same thing last year against USM which is why I don't understand your "IT WILL BE DIFFERENT THIS TIME!". We don't play the same gameplan when a game is in question. Hell defensively we played different week to week depending on who we played. Arkansas would have destroyed us last year if we played the same scheme that we did last night. Literally nothing to be taken from the game other than at least our guys weren't getting burnt by CUSA players like they did last year.

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Every year we hear how vanilla we are and we're going to ramp it up against the SEC and then we see the same BS game plan every week. Fire the DC, rinse, lather, repeat.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I said Gray should be the punt returner- not start over Ross in the slot.

It's frustrating to me because I think we have a chance to have a special season and I see these glaring weaknesses and a LOT of the same issues from last year coupled with a lack of intensity and I'm afraid it's going to lead us to underachieve again like last year. And then I see people like you say "oh well, the coaches know what they're doing and you're not at practice so neahh."

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That's not what I've been saying about the issues....that's what I've been saying about your insisting that we should start freshmen you've never seen play before and have no idea if they can get the job done yet.

As for the issues, I think we were playing vanilla and will look better vs LSU. If not, I'll be pissed. I wasn't thrilled with our performance, but I'm going to at least wait and withhold judgment until we lose or play bad against a team that matters.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I believe that they do value hard work and will reward that over a guy that is a hard worker over a guy that is more talented that doesn't work as hard. And it is a very difficult situation for them when they have something like Perkins and Robinson. If that is "playing favorites" then yeah I think they do in certain cases. I do not believe that they do anything that they intend to not work or hurt the program.

As far as Cohen- I've pretty much railed Butch over the handing of the pitching staff- which was the downfall of our season IMO. I've also been critical of Cohen on some things as well- Frost, not recruiting power hitters that weren't draft risks, too many JUCO's etc.

At the same time, if Ben Howland doesn't start Malik Newman, are we just going to go along with that too? Or he is above questioning as well? Just give me a heads up. Since Malik doesn't have any college experience as well.

How many posters on here post information about things that they have heard through the grapevine or whatever? Do you really think that everyone that doles out info is hanging out with the coaches every day? Some sure, but probably most don't. So now all of a sudden I have to have a massive amount of information to have an opinion on something for it to be accepted?

I believe that I should be able to have an opinion and not be told that I have to be a coach at practice to validate that opinion.

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It's not about you not having an opinion because you don't have coaching sources it's questioning how can you possibly make any type of an informed opinion without seeing them play at this level. Especially the freshman you are touting. We play freshman and at times play freshman significant minutes since Dan has been here. Do some programs play freshman more? Sure but some of that has to do with the raw product we bring in more so than other programs. Some of that does have to do with what is required for playing time. I hate to bring this up again but is almost the same issue brought up about Evans and James when they came in. A segment of the fan base kept hammering for not playing these talented players. And those fans were ignorant then and dead wrong. Saban plays freshman but he is also getting the cream of the polished crop as well. But when he had the #1 rated LB, Foster, and needed LB help he didn't play him significantly because he hadn't gotten it yet. The player had talent and talent over other guys but he sucked as a player until he grasped more things. Being talented and being a football player are different things. And most have been saying that even by the end of the year Peters or McLaurin or both very well may be playing significant minutes. Heck maybe we are saving them for LSU (doubt that seriously) but don't get upset when people call you out on an uninformed opinion when after 6 years Mullen's track record has proved that he is actually more correct that what the fans think about personnel.

I know you have hit on Cohen some but for a fair perspective from others, if you were nearly as critical of Cohen as you are of Mullen, then you very well be ready to search for a new coach. The rope you give Cohen is a good bit longer than you do for Mullen.

As far as Howland, first with his accomplishments if for what ever reason he comes out and Newman doesn't play I'll support that decision until proven wrong. But really basketball and football is totally different especially in personnel and being ready to play at this level much sooner. Not to mention the game itself can lead to playing a guy a lot on pure talent even if their basketball IQ is low. Safety, LB and OL don't necessarily lend themselves to just being able to play on pure talent. Corner, RB, WR are much easier positions that freshman can come in and be impactful.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I used HUDL for ONE player- which was Gray. I have seen Peters and McLaurin play in person. Just like your boy Steve Robertson. You call him sheriff. You call me a ****ing idiot.

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You are missing the point. It really doesn't matter how you saw them play.......whether it was in person or on HUDL, it was high school football. And when you openly admit that you have never seen either of them play against SEC competition, yet claim that they are the best safeties on the team, people are going to call you on that. And when you then get all defensive about people pointing out the fact that you have absolutely no basis for your argument, people are going to call you a ****ing idiot.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

It's not about you not having an opinion because you don't have coaching sources it's questioning how can you possibly make any type of an informed opinion without seeing them play at this level. Especially the freshman you are touting. We play freshman and at times play freshman significant minutes since Dan has been here. Do some programs play freshman more? Sure but some of that has to do with the raw product we bring in more so than other programs. Some of that does have to do with what is required for playing time. I hate to bring this up again but is almost the same issue brought up about Evans and James when they came in. A segment of the fan base kept hammering for not playing these talented players. And those fans were ignorant then and dead wrong. Saban plays freshman but he is also getting the cream of the polished crop as well. But when he had the #1 rated LB, Foster, and needed LB help he didn't play him significantly because he hadn't gotten it yet. The player had talent and talent over other guys but he sucked as a player until he grasped more things. Being talented and being a football player are different things. And most have been saying that even by the end of the year Peters or McLaurin or both very well may be playing significant minutes. Heck maybe we are saving them for LSU (doubt that seriously) but don't get upset when people call you out on an uninformed opinion when after 6 years Mullen's track record has proved that he is actually more correct that what the fans think about personnel.

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Nicely put.