Malik Newman update

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

Right. Huge tenn alums, that bleed orange and sing rocky top, that helped pearl buy players at UT now help him buy players at auburn. Yep.***

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Yes we are talking about much different networks. The networks that Im talking about actually decide where kids go. Y'all are talking about bagmen and shit that when it comes to college basketball recruiting, those networks don't get you shit.

Stans network wasn't just MSU supporters - he was dialed into the "agents/advisors/pimps/aau coaches" that actually decide where these kids go. Those connections are ones that Stans has. Same with Pearl. Same with Cal. Same with Donovan, and the LSU coach.

Its not a matter of the MSU faithful stepping up and giving Ray "everything" he needs. Its a matter of Ray having the connection in the group I identified above. If you don't have that connection - you are ****ed and you have to recruit on your belly sort of speak. You have to find players that you can get without having to play the game. Find players on the International area, or guys that the big schools and connected coaches miss on.

Pearl's network has nothing to do with UT. It has nothing to do with AU. The connections he has is with people that trust him and people he has proven to make money for. If y'all think that the only thing holding back MSU from dominating in recruiting is simply a bagman you simply have no idea how basketball recruiting works now a days. None.

The days of Justin Reed and Mario Austin receiving money in mailboxes and getting cherry red escalades and that is how decisions are made is over. There is no gym bag with 30K in it. There is no tractor in the yard. If you don't have a connect - you can't even get in the conversation.

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Originally Posted by smootness

This is insanity. Why in the world would a network follow a coach around?

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Because its not a college network. Its an AAU/pimp/advisor network. Those guys are loyal to coaches not the college. The college coach funds these networks not college bagmen.

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Originally Posted by engie

You think Ray hasn't tried to do all of that? He's been met with a cold shoulder by a booster structure that(STILL) supports the previous coach.

It's funny that you bring up the alcohol thing -- because I heard a story early on about how he tried to have a beer with one of the key cogs in Stans' former recruiting network in his office, only to be told that he doesn't drink, and basically blackballed by the booster ever since(who apparently had every intention of that from the start -- as it's something really trivial to get your panties in a wad about).

Ray is asking people for help. Read what you've been told in this thread by at least 2 people that were involved in Stans' network. Ray enlisted Richard Williams' help on day 1 to try to get that support structure up and kicking. That's why RW has been around our program so much basically from the day Ray arrived. Yet, they have done little besides spin their wheels -- because the REAL players still support Stansbury over MSU. If you don't believe it, go read Geezer's rant on the pack about the football reseating -- and you'll see, clearly, that "supporting MSU" has been put on the backburner by a bunch of that crowd. And it's been sabotage city, either intentional or incidental, ever since.

This approach frigging pisses me off about our fanbase. Literally the EXACT same thing that happened early with Cohen -- and he STILL doesn't have 100% of the old money on his side to this day... We never learn from past mistakes -- we just repeat them directly thereafter -- that's one reason that we're stuck in the stone age 30 years behind the SEC for the most part.

It makes me almost want to go ahead and move past Ray -- because our history shows that the "next" guy will get the support to be successful on the front end -- while the "Ray/Cohen" coach has to win BIG BEFORE he gets any support. In basketball particularly, that's a tail wagging the dog uphill proposition.

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Well he hasn't called me, maybe I ain't on the list. but my name is on the walls in several places around his office. Hell, he even tried to take my seats for his wife and would have if I hadn't called Scott and told him about it..

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Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

Yes we are talking about much different networks. The networks that Im talking about actually decide where kids go. Y'all are talking about bagmen and shit that when it comes to college basketball recruiting, those networks don't get you shit.

Stans network wasn't just MSU supporters - he was dialed into the "agents/advisors/pimps/aau coaches" that actually decide where these kids go. Those connections are ones that Stans has. Same with Pearl. Same with Cal. Same with Donovan, and the LSU coach.

Its not a matter of the MSU faithful stepping up and giving Ray "everything" he needs. Its a matter of Ray having the connection in the group I identified above. If you don't have that connection - you are ****ed and you have to recruit on your belly sort of speak. You have to find players that you can get without having to play the game. Find players on the International area, or guys that the big schools and connected coaches miss on.

Pearl's network has nothing to do with UT. It has nothing to do with AU. The connections he has is with people that trust him and people he has proven to make money for. If y'all think that the only thing holding back MSU from dominating in recruiting is simply a bagman you simply have no idea how basketball recruiting works now a days. None.

The days of Justin Reed and Mario Austin receiving money in mailboxes and getting cherry red escalades and that is how decisions are made is over. There is no gym bag with 30K in it. There is no tractor in the yard. If you don't have a connect - you can't even get in the conversation.

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Thanks for clarification. Yes, rick ray is in charge of creating that, no question. However, without the help of others any network that you speak of is worthless. And we are cutting our nose off dispute our face due to egos involved.

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

Thanks for clarification. Yes, rick ray is in charge of creating that, no question. However, without the help of others any network that you speak of is worthless. And we are cutting our nose off dispute our face due to egos involved.

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Honestly - its my understanding that the young coaches that are dialed into this network - trained under coaches that are dialed in - Pastner at Memphis - learned under Cal; Johnny Jones learned under Dale Brown - and has a LSU football network that he is using;

Same with Anthony Grant, and several coaches in the Big 10. Now, this isn't the only way to win. I don't think Bo Ryan plays that game at all. I know the Michigan coach does, same with OSU.

If the Seal boys walked into Ray's office and said, you have a blank check from our family - go get em, he couldn't land Newman. Ray isn't connected with Nike or any elite AAU groups. These guys aren't looking for a one time score. They all think they are going to have shoe deals and they want to have that from the jump.

Let me give an example - Im not saying there was a lawyer in Jackson that was an advisor to Rhodes or Ellis. Let me repeat, Im not saying that. Im not saying he had the last name of a famous Jackson burger. Im not saying that he made the call to go pro based on a first round promise given by the Celtics or that he was the one that took care of Rhodes while at MSU. This did not happen.

How Ray can get connected with people that aren't this guy, things will get better for him

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Originally Posted by engie

You think Ray hasn't tried to do all of that? He's been met with a cold shoulder by a booster structure that(STILL) supports the previous coach.

It's funny that you bring up the alcohol thing -- because I heard a story early on about how he tried to have a beer with one of the key cogs in Stans' former recruiting network in his office, only to be told that he doesn't drink, and basically blackballed by the booster ever since(who apparently had every intention of that from the start -- as it's something really trivial to get your panties in a wad about).

Ray is asking people for help. Read what you've been told in this thread by at least 2 people that were involved in Stans' network. Ray enlisted Richard Williams' help on day 1 to try to get that support structure up and kicking. That's why RW has been around our program so much basically from the day Ray arrived. Yet, they have done little besides spin their wheels -- because the REAL players still support Stansbury over MSU. If you don't believe it, go read Geezer's rant on the pack about the football reseating -- and you'll see, clearly, that "supporting MSU" has been put on the backburner by a bunch of that crowd. And it's been sabotage city, either intentional or incidental, ever since.

This approach frigging pisses me off about our fanbase. Literally the EXACT same thing that happened early with Cohen -- and he STILL doesn't have 100% of the old money on his side to this day... We never learn from past mistakes -- we just repeat them directly thereafter -- that's one reason that we're stuck in the stone age 30 years behind the SEC for the most part.

It makes me almost want to go ahead and move past Ray -- because our history shows that the "next" guy will get the support to be successful on the front end -- while the "Ray/Cohen" coach has to win BIG BEFORE he gets any support. In basketball particularly, that's a tail wagging the dog uphill proposition.

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Well he hasn't called me, maybe I ain't on the list. but my name is on the walls in several places around his office. Hell, he even tried to take my seats for his wife and would have if I hadn't called Scott and told him about it..

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Originally Posted by shannondawg

Well he hasn't called me, maybe I ain't on the list. but my name is on the walls in several places around his office. Hell, he even tried to take my seats for his wife and would have if I hadn't called Scott and told him about it..

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And there you have it. Can't complain about those not helping when we aren't asking the right people.

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Originally Posted by shannondawg

Well he hasn't called me, maybe I ain't on the list. but my name is on the walls in several places around his office. Hell, he even tried to take my seats for his wife and would have if I hadn't called Scott and told him about it..

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Ahhhh so the truth comes out.....

First off, I'm not, nor have I ever been a cigar boy...or anything close to it. I'm not important enough to consult whether or not they put charmin or northern in the bathrooms. What I am is a MSU alumni and fan. I want every team we have to win. From football to freaking frisbee golf. With that being said I was not ecstatic when Ray was hired and was sort of sad to see RS leave although I admit our BB program was abysmal when he did leave. Therefore I understood why that move was made. As stated earlier I don't have any connections so I can't verify if one thing said in this thread is true about the inner workings of the AD as it pertains to recruiting. However, if it is true then it is sad that this is what is going on. The focus should be about winning and not unzipping our pants and sticking a ruler down there to see who's bigger. Second, I'm not too sure the place to discuss this level of dirty laundry is a public message board. Whether or not this goes on everywhere is irrelevant. You don't see seven page threads detailing it and almost naming names.

Who on the outside is going to harm us worse than we harm ourselves currently? A public forum is the BEST place for this to be seen. Those that can fix this shit need to see it.

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Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

Honestly - its my understanding that the young coaches that are dialed into this network - trained under coaches that are dialed in - Pastner at Memphis - learned under Cal; Johnny Jones learned under Dale Brown - and has a LSU football network that he is using;

Same with Anthony Grant, and several coaches in the Big 10. Now, this isn't the only way to win. I don't think Bo Ryan plays that game at all. I know the Michigan coach does, same with OSU.

If the Seal boys walked into Ray's office and said, you have a blank check from our family - go get em, he couldn't land Newman. Ray isn't connected with Nike or any elite AAU groups. These guys aren't looking for a one time score. They all think they are going to have shoe deals and they want to have that from the jump.

Let me give an example - Im not saying there was a lawyer in Jackson that was an advisor to Rhodes or Ellis. Let me repeat, Im not saying that. Im not saying he had the last name of a famous Jackson burger. Im not saying that he made the call to go pro based on a first round promise given by the Celtics or that he was the one that took care of Rhodes while at MSU. This did not happen.

How Ray can get connected with people that aren't this guy, things will get better for him

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Oh I fully believe you. The ONLY reason that people wanted Kenny Payne over a guy like Ray is because everyone knew he WAS tied into to the type of network you speak of. It certainly was not because he had proven anything as an actual coach. But Stricklin doesn't want us playing that game and apparently wanted to "clean things up" even from what Stans had going in that area so, IMO, we are screwed in basketball and might as well focus our attention on football and baseball. I agree that you can't get any of the high profile players without playing the game you speak. Yes, its sickening, but its reality. In my view AAU has ruined college basketball and in a lot of ways basketball in general because fundamentals of the game like blocking out, free throw shooting, defending and passing are not even being taught in these circuits from what I can see.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Who on the outside is going to harm us worse than we harm ourselves currently? A public forum is the BEST place for this to be seen. Those that can fix this shit need to see it.

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I would just hate to see the letters LOI thrown on top of things. Maybe what has been talked about here is not even remotely close enough to do that. What I do know is that the quieter people are the better things are. This thread has a lot of squeaky wheels in it and we know what happens to them. Just an overly cautious nothing to see here better safe than sorry kind of person.
Besides, those that can fix this have to be well aware that it is going on. If not, then I have my doubts as to whether or not they can fix it.

Engie, you and your buddy Coach are full of shit. I still buy football tickets and haven't changed one damn thing in my will. If I did, that is my prerogative. The real issue in this deal is we have a coach who doesn't have enough sense to recruit as HancockCountydog has articulated to you dumb asses and if he has reached out to any supporters, it sure as hell isn't any I know. I give that credit to the AD who you would think after being at Kentucky would understand how the system works. You idiots make excuses for this coach and yet belittled the last one at every turn. We did any awful job with Booker at Moss Point and have no chance at Newman either. Sure they are highly recruited, but we haven't even dented the lists of a top recruit in three years. We can't even get in a conversation. Stricklin blew it. I know it, and most others know it as well. You folks always imply our former coach was dirty but last I checked, he was never implicated once in anything illegal. He worked his ass off recruiting and that is why he had the success he had. Shannondawg has given more to MSU than any of you so-called experts so I believe when he posts something, it is accurate. We have a great practice facility now because of people like him and the Mize family. All football recruits rave about our facilities, do we ever hear any of Ray's recruits say anything? No, because most of them are not being recruited by anybody else. Nobody wants MSU to win more than these folks and for that matter me. When we decide to quit deemphasizing basketball, most folks will still be here. But until someone steps up and shows most of us there is hope, why should we do anything but wonder what the hell was the AD thinking? Just because coach and Engie got what they wanted doesn't make it look any better. When we get to.500 in the SEC as coach says we will this year, then maybe folks will have some hope. Until then, the excuses will keep on flowing and MSU will have given basketball over to our friends up North in this state. That is the ultimate sad part.

Donnie Tyndall has one goal for his Tennessee team this next year. To make the NCAA tournament. It's their only purpose. We are just hoping we can be in the running for the NIT in year 3.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/vols-co...44--ncaab.html

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Originally Posted by coastdoglover

Engie, you and your buddy Coach are full of shit. I still buy football tickets and haven't changed one damn thing in my will. If I did, that is my prerogative. The real issue in this deal is we have a coach who doesn't have enough sense to recruit as HancockCountydog has articulated to you dumb asses and if he has reached out to any supporters, it sure as hell isn't any I know. I give that credit to the AD who you would think after being at Kentucky would understand how the system works. You idiots make excuses for this coach and yet belittled the last one at every turn. We did any awful job with Booker at Moss Point and have no chance at Newman either. Sure they are highly recruited, but we haven't even dented the lists of a top recruit in three years. We can't even get in a conversation. Stricklin blew it. I know it, and most others know it as well. You folks always imply our former coach was dirty but last I checked, he was never implicated once in anything illegal. He worked his ass off recruiting and that is why he had the success he had. Shannondawg has given more to MSU than any of you so-called experts so I believe when he posts something, it is accurate. We have a great practice facility now because of people like him and the Mize family. All football recruits rave about our facilities, do we ever hear any of Ray's recruits say anything? No, because most of them are not being recruited by anybody else. Nobody wants MSU to win more than these folks and for that matter me. When we decide to quit deemphasizing basketball, most folks will still be here. But until someone steps up and shows most of us there is hope, why should we do anything but wonder what the hell was the AD thinking? Just because coach and Engie got what they wanted doesn't make it look any better. When we get to.500 in the SEC as coach says we will this year, then maybe folks will have some hope. Until then, the excuses will keep on flowing and MSU will have given basketball over to our friends up North in this state. That is the ultimate sad part.

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That pretty well sum it up CDL.

I had one long time employee in the ad tell me, that Ray approached him about recruiting, and it became evident real quick that he had absolutely no clue as to how to recruit or how to go about getting any backing from the alumni base. He also said that a asst coach told him the well was empty and they had no where to go to get any leverage.

Anybody on here curious how Pollard wound up at Houston?

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Originally Posted by shannondawg

Anybody on here curious how Pollard wound up at Houston?

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Not really. He isn't that good, we said he wasn't that good, and where he ended up basically proves that he isn't. Pollard < or at best = Zuppardo and Daniels.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Donnie Tyndall has one goal for his Tennessee team this next year. To make the NCAA tournament. It's their only purpose. We are just hoping we can be in the running for the NIT in year 3.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/vols-co...44--ncaab.html

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Yeah -- he took over a strikingly similar situation**

I'm sure the NCAAs isn't the goal of our coaches and players either**

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Originally Posted by coastdoglover

Engie, you and your buddy Coach are full of shit. I still buy football tickets and haven't changed one damn thing in my will.

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Then why were you whining about it on the internet? If nothing else, the fact that your seats got bumped because you chose to invest less than 0.5% of the total amount you've allegedly got willed to MSU(thus making you threaten to strike them from the will) in order to secure your same seats speaks volumes about where you are at with the whole situation. Just taking up your mantle alongside Polk against the evil MSU athletics dept that's trying to move forward into the current century...

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The real issue in this deal is we have a coach who doesn't have enough sense to recruit as HancockCountydog has articulated to you dumb asses and if he has reached out to any supporters, it sure as hell isn't any I know.

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You just gave the background on Richard and his group earlier in the post. Is that not Ray's doing? So, you are just going to sit here and talk out of both sides of your mouth on this, I guess?

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I give that credit to the AD who you would think after being at Kentucky would understand how the system works. You idiots make excuses for this coach and yet belittled the last one at every turn.

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That's bullshit. We think this coach deserves a fair shake -- nothing more. Thusfar, he hasn't gotten it.

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We did any awful job with Booker at Moss Point and have no chance at Newman either. Sure they are highly recruited, but we haven't even dented the lists of a top recruit in three years. We can't even get in a conversation.

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Do I need to start running through all the teams in the Sweet16 every year without 5*s? Just because he isn't doing it exactly how your boy did it doesn't mean that his method is wrong or that it's impossible to have success with.

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Stricklin blew it. I know it, and most others know it as well.

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And most here believe that you would have said that even if we had hired John Wooden. A BUNCH of your crowd SURE AS HECK said it when we hired John Cohen. Where are those people at these days?

In fact, where is your boy Kenny Payne coaching at these days?

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You folks always imply our former coach was dirty but last I checked, he was never implicated once in anything illegal. He worked his ass off recruiting and that is why he had the success he had.

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I'm just repeating what you've told us many times before. If you didn't want people understanding how Stans' played the game, you should have thought long and hard about not making it public knowledge. YOU did that. And you did it more than once.

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Shannondawg has given more to MSU than any of you so-called experts so I believe when he posts something, it is accurate. We have a great practice facility now because of people like him and the Mize family.

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And it's appreciated. No one has said nor implied otherwise.

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All football recruits rave about our facilities, do we ever hear any of Ray's recruits say anything? No, because most of them are not being recruited by anybody else.

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In what world do you think this statement makes sense? It just lays down your agenda. I guess hurt feelings don't need actual "reasons" to stay hurt. So, these kids that "aren't being recruited by anyone else" in basketball don't "say anything" about our facilities? That statement actually made sense to you?

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Nobody wants MSU to win more than these folks and for that matter me. When we decide to quit deemphasizing basketball, most folks will still be here.

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How did this sport get "deemphasized" in the first place? And please list for me the ways in which MSU has "deemphasized" this sport? NO -- YOU have deemphasized the sport -- and jumped off the bandwagon because we had to endure a little hardship that YOUR BOY did more than his part in creating for us.

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But until someone steps up and shows most of us there is hope, why should we do anything but wonder what the hell was the AD thinking?

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MSU -- the only school in the SEC where the tail has to wag the dog. "WELL, MAYBE we will care and invest IF WE WIN FIRST"...

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Just because coach and Engie got what they wanted doesn't make it look any better. When we get to.500 in the SEC as coach says we will this year, then maybe folks will have some hope. Until then, the excuses will keep on flowing and MSU will have given basketball over to our friends up North in this state. That is the ultimate sad part.

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Yep -- it's all theirs. Yet they still haven't beaten us in the Hump but once in 15 years. I guess baseball is all theirs too, huh? AND that's probably Cohen's fault as well in your eyes, I suppose?

Who gives a shit where Pollard went? He's not very good

I guess if you live long enough, you get to become exactly what you once despised...

For those that don't know Dawgbreeze = coastdoglover.

http://forums.sixpackspeak.com/showt...rboys-amp-quot
The irony of all ironies...

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Mark Keenum was not their choice and in my opinion, that is good. Let's hope with our new leadership, this nightmare can come to an end and I think that people will see that the cigarboys need MSU more than we need them.

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http://forums.sixpackspeak.com/showt...tay-in-control

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And thankfully, there are people who support MSU who want to excel in everything, including athletics, but since that doesn't affect your family, I guess none of us should want those things either. Hell, let's keep LT forever and then we can be mediocre and this board can have a ball bitching and moaning until the end of this century.

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