No Surprise- Hutzler staying

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Originally Posted by Johnson85

Man, I'm a little nervous about what we do with our NIL money. We obviously need to spend a good bit to get out the hole we're in, but nothing I saw this year makes me think we have the staff to justify a big commitment. If we hadn't looked so damn lost on defense, I would say we need to go big just to get back to respectability and generate some momentum.

I guess the team played hard, but with every year being a contract year now and not having the type of players that are going to get somebody to spend on them just based on their measurables, I'm not sure how hard it is to get players to continue playing hard anymore.

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You have to be comfortable in the uncomfortable in this day and age. And look, if they don't get it done then you move on. I do believe we are going to be better next year. I like the early returns on who I'm hearing we're on out of the portal. IT'S A BUNCH OF GUYS. I believe the uncertainty lies in the fact that we've never built a team this way so fans don't know how to react to 65% of your team coming from the portal. In a perfect world, and moving forward, Lebby will recruit HS ranks harder. But we have to get A LOT BETTER NEXT YEAR. You have to use the portal for that.

I mean look at Kenny Dillingham. They were 3-9 last year. Gave up 33/game and only scored 18/game. He brings in, I believe, 40 transfers and they are now 10-2 and a win away from the CFP. This year they are allowing 22/game and scoring 32/game. They changed OC's but kept the same DC. Dillingham knew he had to use the portal and he went and did it.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

You have to be comfortable in the uncomfortable in this day and age. And look, if they don't get it done then you move on. I do believe we are going to be better next year. I like the early returns on who I'm hearing we're on out of the portal. IT'S A BUNCH OF GUYS. I believe the uncertainty lies in the fact that we've never built a team this way so fans don't know how to react to 65% of your team coming from the portal. In a perfect world, and moving forward, Lebby will recruit HS ranks harder. But we have to get A LOT BETTER NEXT YEAR. You have to use the portal for that.

I mean look at Kenny Dillingham. They were 3-9 last year. Gave up 33/game and only scored 18/game. He brings in, I believe, 40 transfers and they are now 10-2 and a win away from the CFP. This year they are allowing 22/game and scoring 32/game. They changed OC's but kept the same DC. Dillingham knew he had to use the portal and he went and did it.

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This is the new paradigm in college sports and everyone needs to accept it. Highschool recruits are good and all that but it’s incredibly tough to hang onto them now. You will have to do an almost complete rebuild every year and you have to have a coach that can navigate that and create a functional team.

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Originally Posted by Dawgology

This is the new paradigm in college sports and everyone needs to accept it. Highschool recruits are good and all that but it’s incredibly tough to hang onto them now. You will have to do an almost complete rebuild every year and you have to have a coach that can navigate that and create a functional team.

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At this point, if you are not taking guys from the HS/JUCO ranks that cannot contribute within the first two years outside of probably 1 position(QB), then you do not need to take them. First off, they're taking up a spot of someone in the portal who can contribute and second off, they're probably going to transfer if they don't get onto the field in that amount of time anyways.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

At this point, if you are not taking guys from the HS/JUCO ranks that cannot contribute within the first two years outside of probably 1 position(QB), then you do not need to take them. First off, they're taking up a spot of someone in the portal who can contribute and second off, they're probably going to transfer if they don't get onto the field in that amount of time anyways.

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Correct

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Guys Lebby is getting MINIMUM 3 years barring a scandal. Our D will be better next year. We have close to 18 million dollars for NIL. Everyone needs to remain calm, wait 60-90 days, and see what we get out of the portal. I think you will like what we come up with. And yes, Hutzler is a big part of a few of those guys.

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That's the point. No mattter the money its difficult to get defensive guys to come play for a guy with no track record and the worst defense in the country for the one year he does have. Now if you had a DC that players had confidence in AND 18 million dollars, well then you have something. No matter the money, players still want to be developed and they want to win.

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

That's the point. No mattter the money its difficult to get defensive guys to come play for a guy with no track record and the worst defense in the country for the one year he does have. Now if you had a DC that players had confidence in AND 18 million dollars, well then you have something. No matter the money, players still want to be developed and they want to win.

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They do, but we’re also talking about kids here. Getting 18-21 yos to buy in is a lot easier than getting a venture capitalist on your startup.

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Originally Posted by Brobi-wan

They do, but we’re also talking about kids here. Getting 18-21 yos to buy in is a lot easier than getting a venture capitalist on your startup.

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Correct. You're convincing impressionable 18-21 year olds with a wad of money. Sell a vision and you can get them to come play for you. Not hard to convince a kid who's been told since he was 6 that he was destined for the NFL that he is the missing piece. We didn't have a vision or a foundation last year. Lebby had been here a week and his staff wasn't fully filled out when the portal opened. We're ready to go this year.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Correct. You're convincing impressionable 18-21 year olds with a wad of money. Sell a vision and you can get them to come play for you. Not hard to convince a kid who's been told since he was 6 that he was destined for the NFL that he is the missing piece. We didn't have a vision or a foundation last year. Lebby had been here a week and his staff wasn't fully filled out when the portal opened. We're ready to go this year.

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Our competition has as much money as we do and they all actually have competent defensive coordinators to sell. This is not going to go the way you think it is. I would love nothing more than to be wrong, but keeping Hutzler should be a fireable offense. He just fielded the worst defense in school history.

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Originally Posted by Jarius

Our competition has as much money as we do and they all actually have competent defensive coordinators to sell. This is not going to go the way you think it is. I would love nothing more than to be wrong, but keeping Hutzler should be a fireable offense. He just fielded the worst defense in school history.

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You're acting like we had all this talent and it was completely on Hutzler...it wasn't. We had FCS talent STARTING. I have said all along that if you can pull a sitting P4 coordinator, then do it. But don't make a change just to say you made one. Make it because you think it will make you better. Also, Coleman has us on a lot of portal guys so make sure the new DC has those same connections because a DC will not be bringing players with him. He's not the HC.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

You have to be comfortable in the uncomfortable in this day and age. And look, if they don't get it done then you move on. I do believe we are going to be better next year. I like the early returns on who I'm hearing we're on out of the portal. IT'S A BUNCH OF GUYS. I believe the uncertainty lies in the fact that we've never built a team this way so fans don't know how to react to 65% of your team coming from the portal. In a perfect world, and moving forward, Lebby will recruit HS ranks harder. But we have to get A LOT BETTER NEXT YEAR. You have to use the portal for that.

I mean look at Kenny Dillingham. They were 3-9 last year. Gave up 33/game and only scored 18/game. He brings in, I believe, 40 transfers and they are now 10-2 and a win away from the CFP. This year they are allowing 22/game and scoring 32/game. They changed OC's but kept the same DC. Dillingham knew he had to use the portal and he went and did it.

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You know, if there?s a complaint I have of MSU it is the ?slow to adapt? aspect. We were most likely slow in emphasizing football back in the old days and we were most definitely slow on NIL.

So, we end up ?not comfortable? with the idea of a bunch of new players. I don?t think many, if any schools fans really are comfortable or happy with the rampant free agency. The allure to CFB was often the fact that you could follow players through the program and watch them progress. Now this is largely, completely gone.

I look at it and wonder how the state of Alabama is so much better in that sport than MS and it?s not close over decades.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

I do believe we are going to be better next year.

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It would be hard for us to be any worse.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

I do believe we are going to be better next year. I like the early returns on who I'm hearing we're on out of the portal. IT'S A BUNCH OF GUYS. I believe the uncertainty lies in the fact that we've never built a team this way so fans don't know how to react to 65% of your team coming from the portal. In a perfect world, and moving forward, Lebby will recruit HS ranks harder. But we have to get A LOT BETTER NEXT YEAR. You have to use the portal for that.

I mean look at Kenny Dillingham. They were 3-9 last year. Gave up 33/game and only scored 18/game. He brings in, I believe, 40 transfers and they are now 10-2 and a win away from the CFP. This year they are allowing 22/game and scoring 32/game. They changed OC's but kept the same DC. Dillingham knew he had to use the portal and he went and did it.

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I'll give Lebby and staff some what of a pass last year because they came in mid cycle and had to get what they could. This year will be major for his future. If he can evaluate and get the pieces he needs and see it come together on the field next fall most of this uncertainty will disappear. It could just as easily go south with an injury or busted evaluation though.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

You're acting like we had all this talent and it was completely on Hutzler...it wasn't. We had FCS talent STARTING. I have said all along that if you can pull a sitting P4 coordinator, then do it. But don't make a change just to say you made one. Make it because you think it will make you better. Also, Coleman has us on a lot of portal guys so make sure the new DC has those same connections because a DC will not be bringing players with him. He's not the HC.

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We had a lack of talent. We didn’t have getting blown out by Toledo talent. We gave up nearly 40 ppg against SEC competition. Thats way more than a talent issue. Bo Bounds is pretty adamant that we are going to change defensive coordinators, so hopefully all of this conversation is for naught because Hutzler 100 % isn’t going to convince sec level difference makers to come play for him and I don’t blame them.

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Originally Posted by Jarius

We had a lack of talent. We didn’t have getting blown out by Toledo talent. We gave up nearly 40 ppg against SEC competition. Thats way more than a talent issue. Bo Bounds is pretty adamant that we are going to change defensive coordinators, so hopefully all of this conversation is for naught because Hutzler 100 % isn’t going to convince sec level difference makers to come play for him and I don’t blame them.

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Bo Bounds is one of those boosters that needs to shut the hell up and cut the check. That's another one of those Madison "boosters" that likes to have all the info. He likes to sit up at Tico's livin that Y'all Lifestyle!!!

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Bo Bounds is one of those boosters that needs to shut the hell up and cut the check. That's another one of those Madison "boosters" that likes to have all the info. He likes to sit up at Tico's livin that Y'all Lifestyle!!!

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I do not disagree that Bo is a b*tch and I dislike him a lot, but he has a lot of connections and if he is saying Hutzler is getting fired it is much more credible than Steve saying he isn’t IMO. He’s also right that Hutzler needs to be fired. It would be unprecedented for any DC at any program to come back after those numbers.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

You're acting like we had all this talent and it was completely on Hutzler...it wasn't. We had FCS talent STARTING. I have said all along that if you can pull a sitting P4 coordinator, then do it. But don't make a change just to say you made one. Make it because you think it will make you better. Also, Coleman has us on a lot of portal guys so make sure the new DC has those same connections because a DC will not be bringing players with him. He's not the HC.

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There were numerous experuenced G5 level DCs that Lebby could have hired last year that would have given us way better results than what we got this year. But he chose the buddy route with a guy having to learn on the job. Outside of maybe Blanton who grew up a State fan, Hutzler couldn't pull anyone significant out of the transfer portal last year. After the results this year you really expect a hugely different result just because we maybe have a few more dollars in the till? As was said, everyone has money now and everyone is going after the same difference makers in the portal.

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Originally Posted by Jarius

Hutzler 100 % isn’t going to convince sec level difference makers to come play for him and I don’t blame them.

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Not for 2025 and not for 2026 either. Lipstick>Pig

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

There were numerous experuenced G5 level DCs that Lebby could have hired last year that would have given us way better results than what we got this year. But he chose the buddy route with a guy having to learn on the job. Outside of maybe Blanton who grew up a State fan, Hutzler couldn't pull anyone significant out of the transfer portal last year. After the results this year you really expect a hugely different result just because we maybe have a few more dollars in the till? As was said, everyone has money now and everyone is going after the same difference makers in the portal.

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Everyone doesn't have the money we got. We have A BUNCH of money. As I have said, it's closer to 20 million than it is to 18 million. The only SEC teams who have more are Bama and UGA. Ole Miss is slightly below us. I doubt those donations hold year over year, but for this offseason, we're playing with the big boys. Again, maybe we move off Coleman after tomorrow, but if we do it better be for a bonafide P4 DC. Not a G5 guy because that is just OTJ training once again.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Everyone doesn't have the money we got. We have A BUNCH of money. As I have said, it's closer to 20 million than it is to 18 million. The only SEC teams who have more are Bama and UGA. Ole Miss is slightly below us. I doubt those donations hold year over year, but for this offseason, we're playing with the big boys. Again, maybe we move off Coleman after tomorrow, but if we do it better be for a bonafide P4 DC. Not a G5 guy because that is just OTJ training once again.

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A good G5 DC would be perfectly acceptable.anyone who has never been a DC would not be. If you hire a good G5 guy he will be able to bring a couple of quality adds with him if he is worth his salt and no one we are on in the portal is tied to Hutzler. They are tied to money and knowing the person they are playing for is competent as a play caller.

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Originally Posted by Jarius

A good G5 DC would be perfectly acceptable.anyone who has never been a DC would not be. If you hire a good G5 guy he will be able to bring a couple of quality adds with him if he is worth his salt and no one we are on in the portal is tied to Hutzler.

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No because a good G5 DC has no connections and will not bring any difference makers with him. If you're swinging, then by god swing. Don't swing just because the bat is in your hands and you'd rather swing than leave it on your shoulder. I do still think there's a high possibility that Barnes moves on, we move Cliff Odom to safeties, and move Coleman to STC. The new DC would coach LBs. And if you didn't want to completely move Coleman off DC then make him Co-DC and bring in a playcaller that can coach safeties. I feel that Barnes and Turner are definitely moving on off this staff. I'm 99.9% sure on one of them.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

No because a good G5 DC has no connections and will not bring any difference makers with him. If you're swinging, then by god swing. Don't swing just because the bat is in your hands and you'd rather swing than leave it on your shoulder. I do still think there's a high possibility that Barnes moves on, we move Cliff Odom to safeties, and move Coleman to STC. The new DC would coach LBs. And if you didn't want to completely move Coleman off DC then make him Co-DC and bring in a playcaller that can coach safeties.

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Any scenario where Hutzler stays at MSU after a demotion just doesn't seem realistic.

I just don't see this. Just like I don't see us "playing with the big boys" this cycle.