Sunday Morning Thoughts-Hello Darkness My Old Friend

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Then start going to get OOS students that prioritize sports.

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It's not sports but atmosphere and school myths about a certain school being a party school. That gets the Atlanta Hotties there which also attracts the guys. They don't go to a game to watch it but to be seen and it recruits the younger kids to the school. Watch the difference between a Televised State game and a OM game or a Bama game. At the State game they always show the bell ringers dressed up like farmer Ted. At the Om game they show nothing but Hotties or Drone shots of the partying on the Grove. That means lot to a prospective student in the ATL or up north. Heck even 45 years ago that was the perception even though the drunkest I've ever been was homecoming 1980. Thats what happens when it was easier to get Jack Daniels than cold beer and for anyone who was sitting in the old North Endzone metal bleacher I apologize for the addition to the aroma that afternoon

truth, my friend

LOL at blaming baseball success for football?s failures.

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Originally Posted by KB21

LOL at blaming baseball success for football?s failures.

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That is a breathtakingly ignorant statement. If you took the time to comprehend much of the thread you would have gleaned that this is about a truly stupid AD hire and his dreadful mismanagement of the department. The prioritization of a non revenue sport over the one that carries the load financially for the entire institution. The complete wiff on the first football coaching hire. Then the AD mismanaged the second search only to be bailed out at the last minute by Jackie or we would have wound up with Joe Judge or worse. Don?t try to put the men?s basketball hires in his win column either, that program is run from Houston Tx.

Biggest problem with football is the bad hires. But going forward the money aspect will become too big of a hurdle for us to really be relevant. Just as Mullen & Crew were able to see talent that needed a couple of years to develop- our staff will have to do the same with players we can afford.

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Originally Posted by Jarius

No, we suck because we have limited resources and choose to use them on your dumb@ss sport of choice. Spending 70 million dollars on a baseball stadium was an all time dumb@ss move by our baseball coach AD and our dumb@as boosters who are too chickensh*t to commit that type of resource to the sport that matters. We do not have the resources to commit 70 million to a baseball stadium, have a top half NIL budget for baseball in the conference, and compete in football. You not knowing that isn?t my fault. You live in a dream world if you think we do. Just because dread head told you we do doesn?t make it so.

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I'm the one living in a dream world?

Let's get some facts straight here.

First of all the 70 million dollar baseball stadium was pushed by Stricklin. Of course Cohen pushed it because he WAS the baseball coach at the time.

Second of all the 70 million dollar baseball stadium was built AFTER we enclosed Davis Wade for 75 million first. You conveniently leave that part out. Or at least your butthurt booster friend did.

"A $75 million expansion, completed in August 2014, increased the capacity of the stadium to 61,337,[11] created new concessions and restrooms, and created a new west side concourse. Part of the expansion included sealing off the north end zone and installing a large HD video board, similar to the one in the south end zone which replaced the JumboTron that was installed there in 1997.[12]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davis_Wade_Stadium

So we had the money to enclose the football stadium AND build a baseball stadium 10 years ago but now all of a sudden we don't have any money? And that's not to mention the other renovations and upgrades MSU has made to other sports since then as well.

You want to talk about NIL? OK. Well first of all our football program and all of MSU's NIL was SAVED by one of the biggest MSU baseball fans out there. And believe you me he wants to see MSU win in football just as badly as he wants to win in baseball. Second of all what YOU fail to understand in your ignorant "let's break this to fix that" false equivalency ideology that only MSU fans come up with is if football was given all of baseball's NIL they would probably still spend it on JUCO players. That's the biggest issue because by the way we have enough NIL right now to compete in football and that's without touching baseball at all. And that hasn't been said just by me- it has been said by others on this board. And speaking of NIL one of our biggest if not biggest NIL earner at MSU is a BASKETBALL player. Not a baseball player. So according to your logic we should take that from Hubbard too since we could buy a football player with it.

We're never going to maximize NIL in football until MSU actually uses their football NIL wisely. And that's a big thing that is hurting donations right now. They do NOT invest it wisely. MSU is telling people to give to NIL and then they go out and recruit a bunch of JUCO's. And no one trusts the coaches to make the right decisions because they haven't proven that they can spend what they have wisely in any way shape or form. IF MSU did people would give a lot more to football than they do now. Heck- MSU fans are people that will show up to anything that is quality even if it's like women's soccer or softball. We have seen that. They have shown up for football before too when the program made good moves for the most part.

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Originally Posted by Jarius

Complete ignorance is not knowing that Ole Miss threw baseball in the trash so they can compete in the sport that matters. You people live in fantasy land. No, the school with the smallest budget in the SEC can?t spend what we do on baseball and compete in football. You can keep on telling yourself that if it makes you feel better but it?s not true.

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Ole Miss just announced that they are going to have a major baseball stadium renovation by the way.

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Originally Posted by Jarius

We can catch lightning in a bottle twice every 30 years in football while baseball goes on outstanding runs for long periods of time. We could do the opposite if we focused on the sport that matters but we have morons that are ok with having 2 big times seasons in 30 years of football so they can enjoy feeding opposing teams hot dogs in their under priced lounge spot.

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MSU has had consistent success in football with the RIGHT coaches. Jackie. Dan. Leach. We had a 13 year bowl streak with multiple 8+ win seasons during it just two years ago. From 1996-2000 we were about as good as anyone in the SEC except for Florida and Tennessee.

Really no different than any other SEC school in that regard actually.

It's more about making the RIGHT decisions rather than "focus". Heck- when baseball made bad decisions it struggled too. See Ron Polk 2. See Cann. See Foxhall. MSU baseball in 2004 was not even close to what it is now and really the one constant is the LFL folks but people weren't buying in because Polk 2 was incredibly stale and wasn't going to even come close to a NC. When MSU baseball began to make more right decisions starting with hiring Cohen then it turned into what it is now.

Look at who football has hired the past two years- Arnett as head coach, Barbay, Hutzler. That's why MSU football is dead. Hell- Leach left Arnett a 9 win team with a bunch of seniors on it for 2023. You can't do shit to a fan base like fire all of the offensive staff and lie about what you are going to do and then make the same mistake that Moorhead did just four years after Moorhead. And then you want to blame baseball for that? Really? The players don't want to play for those coaches.

The solution here is VERY simple. Go hire an experienced DC that can recruit. Get decent. Then attract better players and go from there. That's it.

But no- we have people that want to blow up the baseball program because we hired inexperienced football coaches who can only recruit JUCO's but I'm the one living in fantasy land? LOL.

I was the one telling people how the offensive line was struggling in practice while YOU were toting Barbay's water in the preseason. So maybe YOU should listen to me instead of your butthurt idiot booster friend who probably had a hand in ****ing everything up to start with.

Also, no one is talking about how revenue sharing and changes with NIL are going to make things drastically different. Which would make killing the baseball program even more stupid. It would go down much like High school reporter's whining about "But....but....I pushed the State script over interlocking because I thought Nike owned the interlocking MSU".

Speaking of baseball- the roster spots are going to be 34 and most of those are going to be fully funded by scholarships now that Title IX is essentially irrelevant. I believe baseball with have 24-26 scholarships now. That in and of itself will save MSU NIL that can be used on other sports.

Also the new group that MSU started in response to the upcoming revenue sharing changes is going to drastically change how NIL is used.

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Originally Posted by Jarius

Complete ignorance is not knowing that Ole Miss threw baseball in the trash so they can compete in the sport that matters.

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WTH are you even talking about?

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Originally Posted by parabrave

It's not sports but atmosphere and school myths about a certain school being a party school. That gets the Atlanta Hotties there which also attracts the guys. They don't go to a game to watch it but to be seen and it recruits the younger kids to the school. Watch the difference between a Televised State game and a OM game or a Bama game. At the State game they always show the bell ringers dressed up like farmer Ted. At the Om game they show nothing but Hotties or Drone shots of the partying on the Grove. That means lot to a prospective student in the ATL or up north. Heck even 45 years ago that was the perception even though the drunkest I've ever been was homecoming 1980. Thats what happens when it was easier to get Jack Daniels than cold beer and for anyone who was sitting in the old North Endzone metal bleacher I apologize for the addition to the aroma that afternoon

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All of this is true. It won?t change because that has been the atmosphere for at least 50 years. Doesn?t matter. It?s the Ole Miss thing.

State has its own thing.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Biggest problem with football is the bad hires. But going forward the money aspect will become too big of a hurdle for us to really be relevant. Just as Mullen & Crew were able to see talent that needed a couple of years to develop- our staff will have to do the same with players we can afford.

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This is the truth, I've been waving this flag for years. There in lies the issue of where do we land and how do we make that landing the softest one possible? If the Missippy Tate way happens it will be a landing that will rip the bottom out of the aircraft. That is the trajectory we are on now. We have to be not just 17ing horrible on the football field to land somewhere that we have a chance to succeed financially.

Two things that helps, 1) we are in the Sec which gives us some advantage with the money aspect, yes we have a poor athletic budget but compared to most schools in the country we are in top 40 for sure maybe higher. 2) Hire a decent HC for football who can recruit and bring excitement, and it helps big time. Hey Ky hired Mark Stoops and he may be their best HC since they Hired Bear Bryant back in the 50's.

Yes we are in awful shape with leadership, but a couple decent hires can change the culture. No doubt I have lost football interest, but I graduated in 1973 and far more things to do than fret over Msu football now days. Fact is I'm headed to deer camp Friday Morning. Happy Turkey Day and Hail State Always!!!

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I'm the one living in a dream world?

Let's get some facts straight here.

First of all the 70 million dollar baseball stadium was pushed by Stricklin. Of course Cohen pushed it because he WAS the baseball coach at the time.

Second of all the 70 million dollar baseball stadium was built AFTER we enclosed Davis Wade for 75 million first. You conveniently leave that part out. Or at least your butthurt booster friend did.

"A $75 million expansion, completed in August 2014, increased the capacity of the stadium to 61,337,[11] created new concessions and restrooms, and created a new west side concourse. Part of the expansion included sealing off the north end zone and installing a large HD video board, similar to the one in the south end zone which replaced the JumboTron that was installed there in 1997.[12]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davis_Wade_Stadium

So we had the money to enclose the football stadium AND build a baseball stadium 10 years ago but now all of a sudden we don't have any money? And that's not to mention the other renovations and upgrades MSU has made to other sports since then as well.

You want to talk about NIL? OK. Well first of all our football program and all of MSU's NIL was SAVED by one of the biggest MSU baseball fans out there. And believe you me he wants to see MSU win in football just as badly as he wants to win in baseball. Second of all what YOU fail to understand in your ignorant "let's break this to fix that" false equivalency ideology that only MSU fans come up with is if football was given all of baseball's NIL they would probably still spend it on JUCO players. That's the biggest issue because by the way we have enough NIL right now to compete in football and that's without touching baseball at all. And that hasn't been said just by me- it has been said by others on this board. And speaking of NIL one of our biggest if not biggest NIL earner at MSU is a BASKETBALL player. Not a baseball player. So according to your logic we should take that from Hubbard too since we could buy a football player with it.

We're never going to maximize NIL in football until MSU actually uses their football NIL wisely. And that's a big thing that is hurting donations right now. They do NOT invest it wisely. MSU is telling people to give to NIL and then they go out and recruit a bunch of JUCO's. And no one trusts the coaches to make the right decisions because they haven't proven that they can spend what they have wisely in any way shape or form. IF MSU did people would give a lot more to football than they do now. Heck- MSU fans are people that will show up to anything that is quality even if it's like women's soccer or softball. We have seen that. They have shown up for football before too when the program made good moves for the most part.

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The fact that we are matching baseball upgrades with football money wise is a huge issue. You know why we are spending football NIL poorly? Because we are cheap as hell and hiring coaches that can’t attract decent football players. You know why that is? Because we focus on a half funded club sport more than we should and don’t have the money to go all in on the sport that everyone else cares about.

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Originally Posted by State82

WTH are you even talking about?

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Ole Miss has made it clear which sport is getting the main focus on campus and baseball isn’t it, obviously. Do I need to put this in picture form for you?

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Ole Miss just announced that they are going to have a major baseball stadium renovation by the way.

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Ole Miss literally stopped that renovation because they had common sense.

https://www.clarionledger.com/story/...g/73924899007/

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

MSU has had consistent success in football with the RIGHT coaches. Jackie. Dan. Leach. We had a 13 year bowl streak with multiple 8+ win seasons during it just two years ago. From 1996-2000 we were about as good as anyone in the SEC except for Florida and Tennessee.

Really no different than any other SEC school in that regard actually.

It's more about making the RIGHT decisions rather than "focus". Heck- when baseball made bad decisions it struggled too. See Ron Polk 2. See Cann. See Foxhall. MSU baseball in 2004 was not even close to what it is now and really the one constant is the LFL folks but people weren't buying in because Polk 2 was incredibly stale and wasn't going to even come close to a NC. When MSU baseball began to make more right decisions starting with hiring Cohen then it turned into what it is now.

Look at who football has hired the past two years- Arnett as head coach, Barbay, Hutzler. That's why MSU football is dead. Hell- Leach left Arnett a 9 win team with a bunch of seniors on it for 2023. You can't do shit to a fan base like fire all of the offensive staff and lie about what you are going to do and then make the same mistake that Moorhead did just four years after Moorhead. And then you want to blame baseball for that? Really? The players don't want to play for those coaches.

The solution here is VERY simple. Go hire an experienced DC that can recruit. Get decent. Then attract better players and go from there. That's it.

But no- we have people that want to blow up the baseball program because we hired inexperienced football coaches who can only recruit JUCO's but I'm the one living in fantasy land? LOL.

I was the one telling people how the offensive line was struggling in practice while YOU were toting Barbay's water in the preseason. So maybe YOU should listen to me instead of your butthurt idiot booster friend who probably had a hand in ****ing everything up to start with.

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This is the problem right here. You consider consistent success going to bowl games in football and going to the World Series in baseball. No one else in this league considers that a success. Our in state rival is winning 9.5 games a year under their current coaching staff and now have the worst baseball program in the conference. Those are the sacrifices you make if you want to be a big boy program. You don’t go cheap in the sport that matters to make sure baseball can compete financially. The expectations should have been flipped for those 2 sports 50 years ago. No, I’m not ok winning 7 games a year in football and propping up baseball. The fact that you are is the problem. Obviously, we can’t kill baseball. We are at the minimum number of sports at the school. It should be slashed with funding and the baseball lovers should be required to carry it financially though.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Also, no one is talking about how revenue sharing and changes with NIL are going to make things drastically different. Which would make killing the baseball program even more stupid. It would go down much like High school reporter's whining about "But....but....I pushed the State script over interlocking because I thought Nike owned the interlocking MSU".

Speaking of baseball- the roster spots are going to be 34 and most of those are going to be fully funded by scholarships now that Title IX is essentially irrelevant. I believe baseball with have 24-26 scholarships now. That in and of itself will save MSU NIL that can be used on other sports.

Also the new group that MSU started in response to the upcoming revenue sharing changes is going to drastically change how NIL is used.

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That means we get to pour more money into funding baseball. Hell yea! I can’t wait to increase expenses on that sport! Yay!

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

No the biggest thing that holds MSU football back is mind numbingly STUPID ideas like "shutting down the baseball program so fans will have to focus on football."

This is the EXACT SAME SHIT that ruined our football program. "Let's get rid of Leach." "Let's hire Arnett." All were fan ideas that came to fruition and how did ANY of them work out? NONE OF THEM HAVE!

You complain about football facilities- well Cohen has been gone for over TWO years! Why hasn't Selmon fixed any of it? He has had 22 months to put some lights in. This isn't a new problem.

Here's the thing about baseball. Do you ever see baseball hiring a first year hitting coach to be the head coach? OK we did it with Cann and how did it work? Do you ever see baseball going all in on JUCO players and then have people try to sell it off as depth? NO! Do you ever see baseball just promoting the pitching coach to try to maintain continuity only to have him fire the hitting coach and lie to players about what we are going to do? Again- NO! Do you see baseball trying to keep a failed assistant because of reasons that make no logical sense like we are rumored to be doing with Hutzler? NO!

And don't sell me this bullshit that these same boosters who are apparently batting a thousand in baseball moves are all of a sudden clueless idiots on every single football move "because they care about baseball more." Well apparently they DO care about football because they're overinvolved in that sport.

So my humble advice as someone who has been AGAINST literally every stupid ass football move which I have been correct about being a stupid move so far is to:

1. Stop trying to drag the baseball program into the football programs failures. It's petty and it's ****ing stupid. COHEN ISN'T HERE ANYMORE!

2. LOOK at what makes baseball successful. And then actually try to imitate it. Baseball didn't tell MSU to hire inexperienced coaches. Baseball didn't tell football to recruit a bunch of JUCOs. Baseball isn't telling football to keep Hutzler.

3. You want to look stupid? Try shutting down baseball right as there are talks about MLB contracting minor league baseball and right at a time when college baseball is one of the fastest growing sports in the country DUMBASS!!!!!!! Doing shit like shutting down the baseball program is why people laugh at us and it's dumbasses like you who come up with this shit!!!!

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Eh, the reason baseball hasn't had to do any of that is because Ron Polk built the program into a national brand long ago. We are basically like a Alabama, UGA, Tennessee, LSU, UF" of baseball. We have a brand and thus we benefit when we have coaching searches in that sport and we don't have to rely on Jucos etc.

I mean baseball recruiting and football are different but we recruit on an Alabama football level in baseball. We get to pick from the cream of the crop.

Comparing our baseball program to football is comparing apples to oranges. We have always been successful in baseball, we have rarely been successful in football with several stints mirroring what we are seeing now.

The problem with football is we don't have a brand and we don't have the $$. You don't needs tons of money to recruit in baseball although that is changing. You now need millions to field a legit roster in football and that number is growing. We also have god awful fan support when it comes to football. Our stadium looked like a cusa crowd all year. Nobody shows up. If I'm a recruit and I am in Starkville for a game and then go to USC or even UK the environments aren't in the same ballpark.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Biggest problem with football is the bad hires. But going forward the money aspect will become too big of a hurdle for us to really be relevant. Just as Mullen & Crew were able to see talent that needed a couple of years to develop- our staff will have to do the same with players we can afford.

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Bad hires are from being cheap a*ses. We are not a serious athletics department from the top down.