I was trying to lighten the mood a little lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgday166
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I was trying to lighten the mood a little lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgday166
Ok .. my bad. The tangents that have nothing to do with Covid are unreal in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commercecomet24
Oh it's no prob. We good. But yeah this thread has gotten twilight zone wild at times!Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgday166
And its welcomed, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commercecomet24
Thanks buddy! It's an emotional time full of uncertainty and I'm sure it gets to all of us at times and you can tell emotions get raw on here at times.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeardoMSU
I was disappointed no one laughed at my R. Kelly joke***Quote:
Originally Posted by Commercecomet24
I'm sorry I must've missed it but you know you're the funniest dude on here!Quote:
Originally Posted by BeardoMSU
MFA - we clearly fundamentally disagree that healthcare should be a basic human right. I can't sway you. As I've told you before reread the 10 commandments and tell me where you feel like you should fall on that issue. You have your religious interpretation, I have mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Extendedcab
Green New Deal - If you're a "global warming isn't real" type... man. Idk.
Reproductive healthcare - Why didn't pregnant women get an extra $500 if unborns count as babies?
(Sidenote: abortion is one issue I do not like to touch. It's scary to craft an opinion on because when we ultimately decide, we have to decide what is a human and what is not. Once we do that, we could grow humans in a lab by that definition. That feels morally weird and wrong. So I generally abstain from that debate. Only ask for consistency across all policies if someone is going to have a strong opinion on it because I don't think anyone actually should.)
Taxes- ... do you think he's taxing 90% or something? I'm genuinely curious if you understand how tax brackets work. I have a feeling you're misinformed on that basic principle (like way too many Americans are).
Voting rights- I don't believe those move the needle near as much as what the Russians did to us last cycle. I'm of the opinion to leave this up to the States. I don't have to see eye-to-eye on everything.
College Tuition- If you think it's the middle class that would foot this bill then you really don't understand how uneven the wealth gap is. (If you made $1000/hr for every hr since the beginning of 1 AD.... you aren't 1/5 as rich as Jeff Bezos. You aren't in the top 20 of rich Americans. Besides that, this is one of those things that would mitigate your "laziness" claim. Americans would have the freedom to pursue their interests and do things they want to do. Instead of forcing themselves only into jobs that can pay bills. And guess what would happen to that middle class that "would foot the bill", that bill of college debt would be gone. I'm assuming you don't understand how ridiculous college has gotten. In my 6 years at MSU, tuition increased over 33%. The costs keep rising and it's an absolute joke.
Marijuana - Sounds like you would be better suited smack dab in 1930. Prohibition is more your speed. Let's ban alcohol. Or let's regulate something that people are going to use anyways and get tax dollars out of it. (If you were to argue against legalization, the only two points that are fair imo are to argue against the taxing and that the government will dilute the product / so you don't want regulation on it.) The fact that you see this harmless plant as something to actively fight against tells me you need to roll one and chill the **** out. (Fun fact, I've only smoked a handful of times. Not for me. But I can see it's merits. So inb4 you label me a stoner too. I'm a drunk, get it right.)
Education - I don't even understand your rambling at this point. I'm confused what you could mean here. Are you arguing against private schools? Education system shows you a lot of what the basis would happen with gov healthcare. You can still opt to get privatized if you want, but we ensure everyone has the bare minimum. That's what I want for healthcare. (Not everyone forced on the same plan bs you seem to think.)
Labor - if you think unions are bad then you are horribly, horribly lost. While I do agree that you should have the option to opt out, the fact of the matter is that without unions you see atrocities like amazon warehouses. Being generally against adding protections to the middle class just seems like a weird stance to take for someone who wants to protect their tax dollars.
As for your conclusion. You should get more informed on issues. You parroted bad versions of the extreme right versions of these arguments. If you think the issue is that Americans are too lazy to work (for the first time in history) instead of the fact that the middle class QOL is overall being squeezed and pushed further and further down, then you are mistaken. The fact is that most middle class Americans can't afford to own property anymore. Nothing to do with laziness and everything to do with a system that disproportionately compensates.
I mean really. How ****ing dare you call Americans lazy when so many of us are put into the "essential worker roles", labeled as heroes, and shown minimal to no extra compensation. So many of these people can't earn a wage that allows them to buy a house but they're essential to the fabric of our nation. AND YOU CALL THEM LAZY. You're an entitled uppity twat if that's how you really feel. Go move to Russia, their system and people align more with your beliefs than America. (Makes a lot of sense why you want Donald.)
I laughed. Can't spread rep around to you yet. I guess I need to be more liberal in who I give rep to, to reward good jokes properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeardoMSU
In regards to that meat and potato line, it got somewhat scary here for a while with the 100 limit in store shit. Surreal thing to witness for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgday166
Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman4248
No I've not changed my opinion. If anything recent events have reinforced my opinion. https://imgur.com/a/tH61SGXQuote:
Originally Posted by dantheman4248
If numbers are being added to the coronavirus death toll of those that haven't even tested positive then the legitimacy of the coronavirus death toll numbers are gone. *Let me be clear that I'm in no way saying people aren't dying to the coronavirus just that the numbers can't be trusted* Here's another link to the NYT reporting on the death toll in New York going up by the thousands after they included those that were "presumed" to have died of COVID but were never tested: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/n...0uofkK7Dl5lgbM
Another factor that has been hit on here are the death total projections that went from astronomically high to now in the 60k range - https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america
I realize a main defense for that has been the social distancing put in place but I like some others on here believe that this virus has been here for some time maybe even as early as December but of course this paragraph and even the link (death projections) are all speculation and we can argue this to death. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
I read a post by Hacker earlier that responded to one of the others mentioning the coronavirus deaths and numbers being misleading where he said (I'm paraphrasing so forgive me Hacker if it's not completely accurate), "If someone has COVID but is murdered then that death will go down as a murder." It should but I don't believe even that is as clear cut. While not a murder per say you may or may not be aware of the 6 wk old baby that died in CT a little while back and the governor and media were sensationalizing the child's death as the "youngest victim to succumb to COVID19." Later it was claimed the death was due to accidental suffocation by the caretaker but more specifics weren't released out of "sensitivity to the parents." The child tested positive for the coronavirus postmortem and the governor and media ran with it. Either way the coroner has yet to rule and the governor has walked back his statements.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...icut-baby.html
https://www.dailywire.com/news/viral...MOB8FaxpGR9beU
Our hospitals here are operating with very low patient census and I live and work in a bigger city. I realize that due to elective surgeries and what not being for the most part delayed until further notice play a large part in this but we were also preparing for a large surge in COVID patients which while we have a few positives it's nothing like we prepared for (Good thing). The bad part is that nurses are being laid off. Last I heard the number we laid off here recently was around the 800 mark but that was last week and that's one hospital. I have friends saying the same thing about their hospitals in other states. A hospital in OK City just closed and only left the ER and some outpatient areas open. Many nurses were laid off. I also speak with several that travel nurse and a few that were in the process of going to New York. I actually looked into it as well since it paid north of $10,000 a week. That was about two or so weeks ago I believe and now those contracts to NY are being cancelled (these were mostly 13 week contracts). It's not just New York contracts being cancelled but Cali, Wash, LA some of the hardest hit areas that were begging for help all of sudden no longer need nurses. I'm grateful to still have a job but to be fair I wouldn't be surprised if I was looking for a new one at some point. Here I was thinking that by going into the medical field I'd never have to worry about job security.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ff/5102320002/
Your statement that other nurses would be disgusted by my opinions of the media and it's role during this difficult time is painting with a very broad brush. It's akin to saying since I support one candidate then all supporters of the other would hate me. No I know many that more or less are of the same mindset. While some may not be as extreme you'd be surprised. Of course there's those that would vilify my standing and I know them and avoid talking about it around them. Just like anything else.
*Btw the highlighted portion of your comment is a lie.* I won't repost your comment saying I don't because you should know what you said.
But you trying to bring that to America. Cause that's what communism is like dude. That's what it's like when everybody has the "basic" living conditions. There are fewer elites at the top, and an equal class that is about like our poorest. No in between much to speak of. The store shelves are mostly bare.Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman4248
ETA: And here's something to think about. EVERYTHING the govt gets involved in, medicine (medicare/medicaid), education (student loans), etc. costs go up and quality goes down. Every time. And things govt really should regulate (like banking) they decided starting in about 1980 to deregulate and over time 2008 happened. There are things the govt should regulate, but most of the rest they should be mostly hands-off of. Let states do what maybe should be done in most of those areas.
How many are out there with covid19 and have no idea? Could be a lot... 60% of cases on USS Theodore Roosevelt were asymptotic. This is a huge number.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/possible-...201204720.html
Then there's another number we don't have, recovered among the asymptotic.
What's the definition of "recovered among asymptotoc" ... you meant asymptomatic didn't you? But even then, if you never develop symptoms, what do you have to recover from. Maybe the disease is "active" among them with no symptoms and after that they'll test negative and an antibody test is needed to find out if they have had it??Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
I thought it was "asymptomatic", but the article made me question it. Here's an exert from the article...Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgday166
"The Navy found that out of the 48-hundred member crew - about 600 were positive for the virus. 60 percent of those were asymptotic."
This made me question my use of "asymptomatic".
As far as "recovered"... yeah, bad word choice, but you get what I'm saying
Best post of the thread. Thank youQuote:
Originally Posted by Matt3467
Quote:
Originally Posted by StateDawg44
Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman4248
1. Literally the first word of your response is what I said not to tell me is a solution. Politicians will do whatever they or their puppeteers pull their strings and tell them to do. Thanks for nothing.
2. You can be informed and still have nothing but crooked ass politician to choose from. (Like every presidential election I've been able to vote in) By the time they are in the position to be elected president (or any other high ranking office) they are so bought and have their pockets so lined it defeats the purpose. The fact that you believe any politician, republican or democrat will make the right decisions for the American people without some sort of angle being played is the problem. You just lap up whatever the side you are on says.
3. So all your political posts on here are you being the change in this world that we all need?.... Fail. IF ANYTHING they are divisive.
4. He would remain with hardly any votes if it weren't for so many people losing their jobs and looking for something to help them through this. This isn't going to last forever. Guarantee you when things get back to normal most of those who signed up for UBI would be complaining about where the rest of their check was. Or as someone else posted, efficiency and work ethic would plummet because there is no benefit to working harder than the next guy. To pretend like everyone has the same initiative and motivation is foolish.
Sorry folks. I know this is political and irrelevant to the COVID thread. I'll drop it with this post.
Agree with this statement wholeheartedly. Where we differ is on what those things are. I'm not for true communism (and I think this keeps getting puppeted because early in the thread I made a point to show extendedcab why imposing his religious beliefs are in bad faith on the government. He doesn't want to follow his religion if it doesn't serve him.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgday166
As for education, last I checked it's free public education up to 18... no? When we get into college institutions that's where we keep seeing the dollar amount go higher and higher. And the quality going down is a matter of perspective. For the top, quality sure goes down, but for the bottom we create a safety net and bring that quality up. It's kind of a ****ed up proposition really. How low are we willing to let our worst fall to allow our highest reach their heights? The answer to that is the root of our difference of opinion.
Pray tell, why are people dying so much more than normal then. Explain the huge spike in NY if not for Corona if the death count is being inflated. How you can look at those stats, work in healthcare and still be forcibly ignorant are a complete and total disgrace.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt3467
And the fact of the matter that you puppet the stance about how could the projections be so high until we did what the doctor ordered. Sounds like the patient who stops taking the antibiotic because they got better and thinks the doctor is stupid for having prescribed it. If you're really an RN you should see the similarity in your beliefs and hopefully do some self reflection.
The "not counting deaths" properly is a tired discussion. If physicians are reporting cause of death, then this is actually quite easy to do correctly. Regardless, the total is not going to be that statistically different. I'm not convinced we don't get to more than 60k deaths reported the way its looking right now. The course of this disease in the USA in general is still fairly early. Its hard to comprehend in Mississippi because it, and many other places, are light year different situations than NYC or NJ. Not saying this to argue we shouldn't be trying to open things up slowly, because we should. But I keep seeing people downplaying this due to projections yet we are sitting here in mid-April at 34k and rising pretty steadily, and no one has opened up anything yet. The death toll is going to be a large number before this Summer is over, but I'm not sure how you avoid it eventually without a vaccine.
Well said! This goes right along with what every hospital administrator, doctor, nurse, etc. that I know(and I know a ton)because it's what I do, has been telling me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt3467
1. I said Vote. Not vote for a fake ass politician. Vote for someone real. If they aren't there, abstain/write none of the above. I don't expect you to vote for Biden or Trump. It's picking between a bumbling idiot and a wannabe dictator.Quote:
Originally Posted by StateDawg44
2. The fact that Trump made it in office makes me disagree here. He's crooked, don't get me wrong, but he wasn't establishment crooked. He initially upset the power balance and now has the entire republican serving his interests to keep the crooked train going. It will be interesting to see the goodwill lost there among the American people if he loses. Bernie himself is one that wasn't bought. If only more people would be informed and vote.
3. Disagree. A lot of people here are prideful and won't admit when their argument loses. But they know. Same as a pastor who preaches the cross and shames sinners. They won't admit it, but they know that they're wrong. Look no further than when a person drops off the conversation with a deflection to a separate reason than the argument. Believe me, that $55 million is eye-opening.
Another point is that I don't like to live in an echo chamber. No progress is made when everyone agrees. If all your friends and acquaintances share every belief the same as you, you're either dead (in heaven) or hurting yourself in the long run.
4. He was out of the race before COVID was a thing. His main goal was to get his ideas into discussion for the overall democratic platform. That idea was accelerated by the disease sure, but it was a main point of interest before. Many people looked at him as someone to keep in mind down the road. Voting isn't just about the next 4 years. Voting can be about 10-20 years down the line. Too many people are only focused on what's in front of their face that they refuse to see the long term effects of anything.
Take the L and move on
People die everyday and the fact NY hospitals are coding those as covid and not testing is fraudulent and it's adding fear to those on the fence.
I'm not going to argue with you because your pushing an agenda and hey we get it. I mean up until two weeks ago we lived in a free country so part of that is freedom of speech. Your pushing a socialist idealism and much like your party are pushing this one to create fear and two your parties blind hatred to the president
This game is getting out of hand. And it's time for this country to move on and get back to life as we once knew it. In 2018 60-70K died of the flue and we had a vaccine at that time. We didn't shut the country down! It's my belief that while the left couldn't impeach trump they decided to get on board with this virus and create fear and doom for everyone to sabotage the worlds best economy in order to create political unrest against the president. Look no further than them criticizing him for travel bans in January and February and now saying he didn't do enough. Regardless of your political leanings he has done a good job and once again those dems look like they have taken the L.
Outside of NY/NJ the national death toll is around 10-15K. Add in the "numbers " from NY/NJ (Dem govs) we get to the 28K. And now that we know that the numbers are inflated we should not be as afraid of this virus as the left wants us to be
In closing stop with your fear of this. Be cautious and smart but let's not give up the rights we have and our ancestors fought for.
You are dangerously ignorant. You've been presented with statistics and call them fake news. (Not just me. The fact that you are literally arguing with a guy who just posts numbers shows the issue here.) You are the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgfan77
You don't understand that the hospitals would have been overrun w/o social distancing. Then you have people unable to get any care. You saw the doctor prescribe something, it work, and now have called the doctor an idiot because the prescription worked. You're an idiot and you make everyone on the "your side" despise you as you make them look dumber by association. Post less.
Your post just now confirmed everything I thought about your leanings. I along with many others presented facts as well examples that you have taken and pushed an agenda that truthfully has nothing to with a virus it's all political to youQuote:
Originally Posted by dantheman4248
You can insult me all you want I have thick skin and really don't take it personal. What I did is point out where your arguments are truthfully coming from and what is driving you to post here. Instead of a rebuttal you start with deflecting by calling me ignorant. That's cool don't care what you think. I'd prefer to look at the glass half full not half empty
Hope you stay safe comrade!!
That was the post that confirmed it for you? Not any of the others where I spelled out my leanings to you? It took you this long?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgfan77
I hope you read that post I made to 44 and to spite me, do the opposite of what I said. Don't vote. Don't inform others. You ain't got a clue. Again if you seriously think there's some conspiracy to inflate the death numbers and that it's the dem's fault, you are part of the problem.
Cite to prove them wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgfan77
Or shut the **** up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman4248
Is it hard to have a disagreement with someone while being civil? Every post where you've responded to me has been nasty and full of digs. If you don't agree with my stance then that's fine but no need for all the extra stuff you throw in.
https://www.health.ny.gov/statistics...ables_list.htmQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
it also attracts Federal Money ... and it is NYC - that alone is enough for me to question a lot of the reportsQuote:
Originally Posted by Dawgfan77
The only two people I know that have been tested (in different states), neither have gotten results back. It's been about a month since both were tested.
First, you are putting too much emphasis on the parent company being bankrupt. The whole point of bankruptcy is to minimize disruption from solvency issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman4248
Second, why do you think he could have gotten those masks from 3M at that price? That was the price before the crisis. Even non-volume buyers could get those masks for $.50 a mask before the crisis, and again, they were getting quoted $5 a mask after that, often times even with pretty significant minimum orders. Maybe 3M could have delivered 10M masks to the feds by the end of April, but that's not a deal available elsewhere and I don't see a reaosn to just assume it was available to the feds b/c they are the feds.
As I've posted earlier, he's either trolling or the wounds of his boy Bernie not getting the nomination for a second time are too deep....Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt3467
He's the only person here who takes their stance to a personal level, yet at the same time wants others to "debate" the issue. At the end of the day, it isn't worth it to even engage.
Where was I uncivil there? You're a snowflake if you take that as incivility. There were no digs there. Nothing more than surface level. If you can look at unbiased statistics and still believe the opposite, then you are willfully ignorant. If you continue to broadcast your ignorance, you are a disgrace. That's not being uncivil. That's telling you a fact. And if you take a fact as something that offends you, then you are a snowflake. Plain and simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt3467
Did you look into the actually company itself. Panthera, which describes itself as a tactical training company for the US military and other government agencies, has no record of producing medical supplies or equipment. http://pantheraworldwide.com/Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
3M is attacking price-gougers as well. They are not gouging the fed here. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-price-gouging
3M is delivering 55 Mil masks / month to the fed.
Take a step back and look at the facts. The fed is paying a company that has no history of distributing/manufacturing medical equipment and no employees 7X what they are paying 3M. They are paying this company $55 million. The parent company is $50 million in debt. The only unknown in that is who are the creditors. That's how this scheme works. They take this bill, pay the creditors, then say they are delivering on the deal. Then there is some delay. Then a shipping delay. Then another. Eventually poof everything is gone. News cycle has already moved on to the next major coverup. Money funneled directly into someone's pocket from the government and the taxpayers are on the hook.
They are supposed to have the masks delivered by April 23rd. It's amazing to think a company with no experience in this realm can have the proper quality of these masks ensured and produced in such a staggeringly short time. Everything about that smells rotten.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/n...0uofkKQuote:
Originally Posted by SheltonChoked
You apparently do not know history as back in WWII, another national crisis, manufacturers were making war related products that were totally outside their manufacturing expertise as well. In times of emergency, extreme measure have to be taken and companies are asked to do other things in order to help the nation and its people.Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman4248
Get a grip on reality!! Please move to Russia, be happy, because you obviously are not happy living in the US. You gripe about everything, good and bad alike!!! Fulfill your dream of living in a communistic society and please move!
On education I meant college/university education. As for letting "our worst" fall ... a lot of that is up to them. Grown folks gotta take some responsibility. Now you can make some argument to their environments growing up ... but we do help out a lot of folks with various subsistence programs. But I know quite a few others that take advantage of those just cause they don't wanna work.Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman4248
Yes, it smells rotten, but it's likely because somebody is influence peddling and making a cut off masks in the market place, not because Panthera is trying to manufacturer masks (or planning on not deliverying). It's sketchy and normal corruption with federal contracts, likely nothing to do with Trump. It's unfortunately standard operating procedure for a lot of these federal contracts, where who you know and your knowledge in navigating the process is more important than actual subject matter expertise or performance ability. It's the same reason the Obamacare rollout was such a cluster 17. THey had a very complicated project, put themselves behind the eightball by assuming the states were going to do it, and really needed to hire the best contractor available. Of course they didn't do that but instead chose to enrich people that were politically connected. SOP.Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman4248
I bolded a word in your reply.Quote:
Originally Posted by Extendedcab
"tactical training company for the US military and other government agencies"
I don't know why you're dying on this hill but damn. This is not a manufacturing company or anything close.
Apparently because you don't agree with my politics that makes everything I say wrong.