John Cohen, it's time for you to do your job

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Per Steve, we offered Huff a long extension (to 2022) and more money but it was the Bama opportunity. Piroli was offered more but really wanted to go and work with Bruce again. Baker was offer a match, then offered to exceed Bama’s offer at the time but he also thought the opportunity for advancement was too good to pass up

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Well, that kind of blows up the fantasy of a few on here that more money would have kept them here. Some just can't realize that this is a business,and coaches are going to do what they think is best for their family and their career. And this over paying concept (how much do you pay him?) a coach to make sure he doesn't want to go somewhere else was almost laughable. That's not even using good business principles. You negotiate a new salary package with a coach that you really want to keep where he is satisfied with it. Then you up the ante to whatever you can or think you should, if another program comes a calling. It's pretty simple.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Piroli I get.

Huff I get to some extent but he's a climber that won't show loyalty to anyone. He needs to watch who he follows on twitter.

Baker - Complete sell out. Would rather get something for free than build that something special. Was lying to our recruits last night about staying.

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I agree with Baker should have not been involved in our recruiting weekend, but he didn't actually accept the offer till last night, so that was possibility the reason he was not at the game with the recruits. You still don't get it though on the other. Coaches are going to do what they think is best for their family and their career. Loyalty is not even an equation in this situation. Why do you think they should be loyal? They didn't grow up cheering for the Dawgs. So why do you think they would turn down an offer to go where they think it is a better situation for them. We all want what's best for our university and sport's programs, but everything just doesn't happen the way you think it should all the time. That is not reality.

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Originally Posted by yjnkdawg

Well, that kind of blows up the fantasy of a few on here that more money would have kept them here. Some just can realize that this is a business,and coaches are going to do what they think is best for their family and their career. And this over paying concept (how much do you pay him?) a coach to make sure he doesn't want to go somewhere else was almost laughable.

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We have too many fans that try to make our coaches "family" and don't understand that for most of our coaches MSU is just another job.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

We have too many fans that try to make our coaches "family" and don't understand that for most of our coaches MSU is just another job.

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Exactly, unless a coach is an alum or has some direct connection to a school, they are all pretty much guns for hire and will leave for the next shiny toy that comes along. Here is Brian Baker's coaching resume:

Coaching Experience
2016-present: Mississippi State (Defensive Line)
2015: Covenant Christian Academy of Colleyville (Texas) (Assistant Coach/Mentor)
2014: Washington Redskins (Outside Linebackers)
2013: Cleveland Browns (Outside Linebackers)
2011-12: Dallas Cowboys (Defensive Line)
2009-10: Carolina Panthers (Defensive Line)
2006-08: St. Louis Rams (Defensive Line)
2004-05: Minnesota Vikings (Defensive Line)
2002-03: Minnesota Vikings (Linebackers)
2001: Minnesota Vikings (Defensive Line)
1997-2000: Detroit Lions (Defensive Line)
1996: San Diego Chargers (Defensive Line)
1995: Georgia Tech (Defensive Coordinator/Linebackers)
1987-94: Georgia Tech (Linebackers)
1986: Army (Fullbacks)
1985: Maryland (Graduate Assistant)
1984: Maryland (Student Assistant)

Does that look like a guy committed to coaching anywhere for very long? We pulled him off of the coaching trash heap at a TX HS to resurrect his career after the NFL no longer had any interest in him. If Young signs with Bama he should do so assuming that Baker will likely not be there when he is an upperclassmen.

The danger with hiring outside of the SEC is that this league is just brutal in all aspects. From a fan's perspective, it just seems like we've had to live through Moorhead's baptism by fire on the field, in recruiting, and in retention. Maybe it all ends up being just fine, but it's worrisome.

Reminds me of Shoop's comment earlier this year after the consecutive losses to UF and UK: "I think we’re all learning this, especially the guys that are just coming to the SEC. It is different."

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

Exactly, unless a coach is an alum or has some direct connection to a school, they are all pretty much guns for hire and will leave for the next shiny toy that comes along. Here is Brian Baker's coaching resume:

Coaching Experience
2016-present: Mississippi State (Defensive Line)
2015: Covenant Christian Academy of Colleyville (Texas) (Assistant Coach/Mentor)
2014: Washington Redskins (Outside Linebackers)
2013: Cleveland Browns (Outside Linebackers)
2011-12: Dallas Cowboys (Defensive Line)
2009-10: Carolina Panthers (Defensive Line)
2006-08: St. Louis Rams (Defensive Line)
2004-05: Minnesota Vikings (Defensive Line)
2002-03: Minnesota Vikings (Linebackers)
2001: Minnesota Vikings (Defensive Line)
1997-2000: Detroit Lions (Defensive Line)
1996: San Diego Chargers (Defensive Line)
1995: Georgia Tech (Defensive Coordinator/Linebackers)
1987-94: Georgia Tech (Linebackers)
1986: Army (Fullbacks)
1985: Maryland (Graduate Assistant)
1984: Maryland (Student Assistant)

Does that look like a guy committed to coaching anywhere for very long? We pulled him off of the coaching trash heap at a TX HS to resurrect his career after the NFL no longer had any interest in him. If Young signs with Bama he should do so assuming that Baker will likely not be there when he is an upperclassmen.

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Looks to me like he took another position when he thought it was best for his family and/or his career, or maybe when he was told to leave (thus the high school stint), but I could be totally wrong and according to a few on here he still may should have been loyal to MSU for some unknown reason.

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

Exactly, unless a coach is an alum or has some direct connection to a school, they are all pretty much guns for hire and will leave for the next shiny toy that comes along. Here is Brian Baker's coaching resume:

Coaching Experience
2016-present: Mississippi State (Defensive Line)
2015: Covenant Christian Academy of Colleyville (Texas) (Assistant Coach/Mentor)
2014: Washington Redskins (Outside Linebackers)
2013: Cleveland Browns (Outside Linebackers)
2011-12: Dallas Cowboys (Defensive Line)
2009-10: Carolina Panthers (Defensive Line)
2006-08: St. Louis Rams (Defensive Line)
2004-05: Minnesota Vikings (Defensive Line)
2002-03: Minnesota Vikings (Linebackers)
2001: Minnesota Vikings (Defensive Line)
1997-2000: Detroit Lions (Defensive Line)
1996: San Diego Chargers (Defensive Line)
1995: Georgia Tech (Defensive Coordinator/Linebackers)
1987-94: Georgia Tech (Linebackers)
1986: Army (Fullbacks)
1985: Maryland (Graduate Assistant)
1984: Maryland (Student Assistant)

Does that look like a guy committed to coaching anywhere for very long? We pulled him off of the coaching trash heap at a TX HS to resurrect his career after the NFL no longer had any interest in him. If Young signs with Bama he should do so assuming that Baker will likely not be there when he is an upperclassmen.

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How many of our fans would have flipped out knowing that Baker was on the same staff as Croom?

That's a pretty typical coaching resume'. After Georgia Tech it looks like his typical stay at any place ranges from 1-3 years.

And for the heck of it let's look at Lance Thompson. GT then LSU, then the DC at UCF, Tennessee, Alabama, then left them for AUBURN, and then left for South Carolina. He has coached at almost HALF of the schools in the entire SEC.

Until we find a MSU grad that is a tremendous football coach or get a retread like a Sherrill or a Cutcliffe we're honestly probably looking at changing coaches every five years or so on average good or bad.

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Originally Posted by bluelightstar

The danger with hiring outside of the SEC is that this league is just brutal in all aspects. From a fan's perspective, it just seems like we've had to live through Moorhead's baptism by fire on the field, in recruiting, and in retention. Maybe it all ends up being just fine, but it's worrisome.

Reminds me of Shoop's comment earlier this year after the consecutive losses to UF and UK: "I think we’re all learning this, especially the guys that are just coming to the SEC. It is different."

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I'll get worried when he starts having issues with his players. Shoop could have been referring to anything- including the intensity of our fans after those losses. I think football is a lot more personal here in the South than up North.

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Originally Posted by yjnkdawg

Looks to me like he took another position when he thought it was best for his family and/or his career, or maybe when he was told to leave (thus the high school stint), but I could be totally wrong and according to a few on here he still may should have been loyal to MSU for some unknown reason.

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And sometimes good coaches are fired because the head coach is fired and the next coach wanted to bring "his guys" in.

Our fans have to get past the "well, this guy was fired so he must suck" attitude. If that was the case then Bob Shoop sucks. Or should have in theory.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I'll get worried when he starts having issues with his players. Shoop could have been referring to anything- including the intensity of our fans after those losses. I think football is a lot more personal here in the South than up North.

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Shoop was referring to how much more physical the SEC is and that tends to be a shock to most coaches. He was already somewhat aware due to coaching at Vandy.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

And sometimes good coaches are fired because the head coach is fired and the next coach wanted to bring "his guys" in.

Our fans have to get past the "well, this guy was fired so he must suck" attitude. If that was the case then Bob Shoop sucks. Or should have in theory.

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Excellent points, Todd.

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Why don't we have in their contracts a large buy out? 1 million minimum-5 million to an sec east school- 10 million to a sec west school-if bama wants to pay that - thanks! This isn't rocket science - put it in the contracts

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Originally Posted by Belegal

Why don't we have in their contracts a large buy out? 1 million minimum-5 million to an sec east school- 10 million to a sec west school-if bama wants to pay that - thanks! This isn't rocket science - put it in the contracts

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Just because a coach has a large buyout it doesn't mean that someone won't pay it. Remember when Alabama first went after Saban when he was with the Dolphins? The salary that they gave him was astronomical at that time. Everyone has a number.

A large buyout can be negotiable too. That happened when we hired Cohen away from Kentucky as our baseball coach. They lowered the buyout and we agreed not to take their coaches or recruits. A lot of times businesses will lower or negotiate a buyout to be lower because in general you want employees that want to work for you and not want to leave. That was a big reason why I said that we should have told Dan to just leave after 2015. It affected us a lot in 2016-2017 and honestly still did in 2018. And probably will for the next year or two to a smaller and smaller degree. Usually if someone wants to leave it's best to just let them leave even if they're really good at what they do. Because usually if you prevent that they still find a way to leave anyway. Like- resign and then go wherever. Or if they stay they will be unhappy and you won't get their best effort.


There is no way to eliminate turnover. Heck- massive turnover is why Alabama is going after our coaches in the first place. They couldn't avoid it either.

I don't understand this meltdown over coaches leaving. This is typical in college football. I think a lot of if boils down to insecurity about our program. Any little thing that happens like a position coach leaving, and the sky is collapsing. It's comical that people think these coaches owe us anything. They don't know us and aren't from MS. They are trying to build a resume like all of us are doing. Why should these coaches turn down an opportunity for career advancement just because the fans want them to stay? Those coaches can also get fired on a whim just like when Mullen left. They will get kicked to to curb just as quickly, so let's not act like this program is loyal to the coaches either.

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Originally Posted by Dawg2003

I don't understand this meltdown over coaches leaving. This is typical in college football. I think a lot of if boils down to insecurity about our program. Any little thing that happens like a position coach leaving, and the sky is collapsing. It's comical that people think these coaches owe us anything. They don't know us and aren't from MS. They are trying to build a resume like all of us are doing. Why should these coaches turn down an opportunity for career advancement just because the fans want them to stay? Those coaches can also get fired on a whim just like when Mullen left. They will get kicked to to curb just as quickly, so let's not act like this program is loyal to the coaches either.

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Reading some of the comments on these threads makes me wonder if some people have ever had a job not working for Daddy at the insurance office.
I've worked for 4 organizations since 1996 - and that is very low for most people I know. But, I have always looked for opportunities or have been approached about changing jobs a dozen times. I've changed jobs for more money, turned down jobs for more money because I didn't want to move, turned down promotions because it meant doing something I didn't want to do, taken promotions without a pay bump to add to my resume, left jobs with no job in hand because I hated my job, I've had bosses try to keep me when I left, and had one tell me not to let the screen door hit me in the ass on the way out. I turned down a major, high profile, high paying, career making job because my kids wanted to finish high school and my wife's business was doing too well to sell after all the work she had put in and have to start over.

To think that any football coach - head coach, position coach, analyst, or GA - would think any other way is just comedic. Legendary QB comes calling and wants you - you go. Top College program in the country comes calling, you listen. Old friend has a job opening and wants you, you go. Or maybe, you are tired of the moves and thankful for what you have (Shoop) and stay. It's not a sign of the apocalypse. It's not lack of leadership in the AD's office. It's not rats jumping a sinking ship. It's life.

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Originally Posted by Belegal

Why don't we have in their contracts a large buy out? 1 million minimum-5 million to an sec east school- 10 million to a sec west school-if bama wants to pay that - thanks! This isn't rocket science - put it in the contracts

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I guess you can put it in a contract, but I'm not sure what position coach you would get to sign it, on what you are asking. It was reported that if Mullen left FL that he would have to pay them $2 million. We are talking about a position coach salary, and not a HC or even a DC. Now there are some head coaches in those ranges ($5 to $10 million), that you mentioned and even $26 plus for Saban

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Originally Posted by yjnkdawg

I agree with Baker should have not been involved in our recruiting weekend, but he didn't actually accept the offer till last night, so that was possibility the reason he was not at the game with the recruits. You still don't get it though on the other. Coaches are going to do what they think is best for their family and their career. Loyalty is not even an equation in this situation. Why do you think they should be loyal? They didn't grow up cheering for the Dawgs. So why do you think they would turn down an offer to go where they think it is a better situation for them. We all want what's best for our university and sport's programs, but everything just doesn't happen the way you think it should all the time. That is not reality.

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Not to mention that the only reason we got them in the first place...is because they weren't loyal to their previous job.

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Originally Posted by smootness

Not to mention that the only reason we got them in the first place...is because they weren't loyal to their previous job.

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Oh it's ok when they leave their current job to come here, just not the other way around. Sounds logical****

The man is just trying to do what's best for him and his family, something we would all do. I want to thank him for the great job he did for us and I wish him all the luck in the world.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

Reading some of the comments on these threads makes me wonder if some people have ever had a job not working for Daddy at the insurance office.
I've worked for 4 organizations since 1996 - and that is very low for most people I know. But, I have always looked for opportunities or have been approached about changing jobs a dozen times. I've changed jobs for more money, turned down jobs for more money because I didn't want to move, turned down promotions because it meant doing something I didn't want to do, taken promotions without a pay bump to add to my resume, left jobs with no job in hand because I hated my job, I've had bosses try to keep me when I left, and had one tell me not to let the screen door hit me in the ass on the way out. I turned down a major, high profile, high paying, career making job because my kids wanted to finish high school and my wife's business was doing too well to sell after all the work she had put in and have to start over.

To think that any football coach - head coach, position coach, analyst, or GA - would think any other way is just comedic. Legendary QB comes calling and wants you - you go. Top College program in the country comes calling, you listen. Old friend has a job opening and wants you, you go. Or maybe, you are tired of the moves and thankful for what you have (Shoop) and stay. It's not a sign of the apocalypse. It's not lack of leadership in the AD's office. It's not rats jumping a sinking ship. It's life.

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Stop with all this damn reality!!

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

Reading some of the comments on these threads makes me wonder if some people have ever had a job not working for Daddy at the insurance office.
I've worked for 4 organizations since 1996 - and that is very low for most people I know. But, I have always looked for opportunities or have been approached about changing jobs a dozen times. I've changed jobs for more money, turned down jobs for more money because I didn't want to move, turned down promotions because it meant doing something I didn't want to do, taken promotions without a pay bump to add to my resume, left jobs with no job in hand because I hated my job, I've had bosses try to keep me when I left, and had one tell me not to let the screen door hit me in the ass on the way out. I turned down a major, high profile, high paying, career making job because my kids wanted to finish high school and my wife's business was doing too well to sell after all the work she had put in and have to start over.

To think that any football coach - head coach, position coach, analyst, or GA - would think any other way is just comedic. Legendary QB comes calling and wants you - you go. Top College program in the country comes calling, you listen. Old friend has a job opening and wants you, you go. Or maybe, you are tired of the moves and thankful for what you have (Shoop) and stay. It's not a sign of the apocalypse. It's not lack of leadership in the AD's office. It's not rats jumping a sinking ship. It's life.

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I don't think it can be said any better really. This is a sign of a program that is on the rise.. Noone wanted to take Croom from us. Noone wanted his assistants. This is a problem our fanbase isn't used to so they think the sky is falling and we aren't doing enough and are the problem. The only problem is that we have established a winning culture at MSU in Football but we aren't at the top... So some coaches are going to take the chance to move up to someone who is if the chance arrives.

It just really sucks cause that school on top or near the top, is 90 miles away and in our conference.. and we haven't beaten them in a long time.

Guys get over it, stop b!tching about someone make a better life for themselves. As long as they handle it correctly, just move on and believe in Joe to make the best coaching hire possible with what we have to offer (a lot...)

But that wouldn't fit the mold of some who just wan't to bash Joe and John.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

Reading some of the comments on these threads makes me wonder if some people have ever had a job not working for Daddy at the insurance office.
I've worked for 4 organizations since 1996 - and that is very low for most people I know. But, I have always looked for opportunities or have been approached about changing jobs a dozen times. I've changed jobs for more money, turned down jobs for more money because I didn't want to move, turned down promotions because it meant doing something I didn't want to do, taken promotions without a pay bump to add to my resume, left jobs with no job in hand because I hated my job, I've had bosses try to keep me when I left, and had one tell me not to let the screen door hit me in the ass on the way out. I turned down a major, high profile, high paying, career making job because my kids wanted to finish high school and my wife's business was doing too well to sell after all the work she had put in and have to start over.

To think that any football coach - head coach, position coach, analyst, or GA - would think any other way is just comedic. Legendary QB comes calling and wants you - you go. Top College program in the country comes calling, you listen. Old friend has a job opening and wants you, you go. Or maybe, you are tired of the moves and thankful for what you have (Shoop) and stay. It's not a sign of the apocalypse. It's not lack of leadership in the AD's office. It's not rats jumping a sinking ship. It's life.

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Well said! This is the most for real down to earth post I've seen in a long time! I left a job for a lower paying job one time because the job was killing the time I was able to spend with my family. I had young ones then and was missing watching them grow up. I have never regretted that decision for one minute! While I may not have millions I have what I need but most importantly I have a great family. Great post Brunswick.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

Well said! This is the most for real down to earth post I've seen in a long time! I left a job for a lower paying job one time because the job was killing the time I was able to spend with my family. I had young ones then and was missing watching them grow up. I have never regretted that decision for one minute! While I may not have millions I have what I need but most importantly I have a great family. Great post Brunswick.

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I did it twice in my career. Turned out the best thing (both of them) I ever did. I hate that Baker left, but find it comical that folks are lighting up J Cohen because of it.

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Originally Posted by AROB44

I did it twice in my career. Turned out the best thing (both of them) I ever did. I hate that Baker left, but find it comical that folks are lighting up J Cohen because of it.

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Good stuff man, I agree completely!

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

Well said! This is the most for real down to earth post I've seen in a long time! I left a job for a lower paying job one time because the job was killing the time I was able to spend with my family. I had young ones then and was missing watching them grow up. I have never regretted that decision for one minute! While I may not have millions I have what I need but most importantly I have a great family. Great post Brunswick.

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Originally Posted by AROB44

I did it twice in my career. Turned out the best thing (both of them) I ever did. I hate that Baker left, but find it comical that folks are lighting up J Cohen because of it.

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I'm convinced the Cohen bashing goes back to the Polk/Cohen split from when John was hired as baseball coach. There are some people so "loyal" to Polk that nothing Cohen ever does at MSU will be good.

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Originally Posted by ScoobaDawg

I don't think it can be said any better really. This is a sign of a program that is on the rise.. Noone wanted to take Croom from us. Noone wanted his assistants. This is a problem our fanbase isn't used to so they think the sky is falling and we aren't doing enough and are the problem. The only problem is that we have established a winning culture at MSU in Football but we aren't at the top... So some coaches are going to take the chance to move up to someone who is if the chance arrives.

It just really sucks cause that school on top or near the top, is 90 miles away and in our conference.. and we haven't beaten them in a long time.

Guys get over it, stop b!tching about someone make a better life for themselves. As long as they handle it correctly, just move on and believe in Joe to make the best coaching hire possible with what we have to offer (a lot...)

But that wouldn't fit the mold of some who just wan't to bash Joe and John.

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I think the most that we can expect Cohen to do is to at least push for legislation in the SEC that reduces coaches leaving during critical recruiting periods. Regulate that and it would help tremendously.

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Originally Posted by Interpolation_Dawg_EX

I think the most that we can expect Cohen to do is to at least push for legislation in the SEC that reduces coaches leaving during critical recruiting periods. Regulate that and it would help tremendously.

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Not really... The NCAA isn't gonna make that rule and tell coaches they can't leave when a opportunity opens.
Bama lost 7 coaches now and not one I believe to another team in the SEC.

So you can't make a rule to say Asst Coaches can't leave on their own to a different conference or NFL....

How does this work with their "contract"?