We just have to accept fact in recruiting

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Todd4State

Our football history is actually fairly comparable to our basketball history. We're not a powerhouse historically in basketball but yet Howland has loaded up on four stars and he even won a battle recently for Garrison Brooks. I'm pretty sure Dan wouldn't have even tried to get Brooks if the roles were reveresed. The guys we're landing now in basketball were in diapers when we went to the Final Four.

---

Basketball is still far more coach-driven than football.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

And everyone - including lists like these-thought that Malzahn had an all world team with a Heisman Candidate QB in 2015, and a #6 preseason ranking. All that hype and talent and he was 7-6 and wound up with Sean White doing a Mike Hennig impersonation.

Malzahn caught lightening in a bottle with Cam. Then lucked into a lot of wins in '13. They will be no better in '17 than in '16.

---

My god man you have lost your mind.

5 star QB coming in that has been successful in D-1 already
Both RB's returning including the SEC's leading rusher in yards per game
7/8 WR's returning that included 2 highly recruited true freshman
3/5 of their OL and a 5-star OT coming in
Their DL loses Adams and Lawson- but Davidson started as true freshmen and 5-star Brown will be a Soph and take Adams place.
All 3 starting LB's return
3/4 of Secondary returns

Auburn has Bama at home. That game will be for the SEC title

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Random Poster

My god man you have lost your mind.

5 star QB coming in that has been successful in D-1 already
Both RB's returning including the SEC's leading rusher in yards per game
7/8 WR's returning that included 2 highly recruited true freshman
3/5 of their OL and a 5-star OT coming in
Their DL loses Adams and Lawson- but Davidson started as true freshmen and 5-star Brown will be a Soph and take Adams place.
All 3 starting LB's return
3/4 of Secondary returns

Auburn has Bama at home. That game will be for the SEC title

---

Again, all the same hype and talk that AU gets every year. Under Gus, they won't be any better. It's not crazy, it's what he has done with all the talent he has had.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dawg61

So he needs to fire everybody but Grantham & Buckley so we can average winning 1-2 more games a year? It's way more likely we will lose 1-2 more games and probably Dan Mullen by doing that than it is we will win 1-2 more games a year. We are never beating Saban and the 1 RAT team a year. 10 wins is our regular season ceiling 99 years outta 100. Doesn't matter what coach you bring in if you fire Mullen either. That ceiling won't ever get higher than that till Saban is gone. The Saban frustration is amazing. There needs to be a 30 for 30 just on it alone. Saban's Suicides.

---

I didn't say that he needs to fire everyone except for those 2. I said that everyone on our staff needs to at a minimum have the same intensity to recruit as Buckley does. I would imagine that there are more on our staff than Buckley that work hard on the recruiting trail. Hevesy and Sallach do almost nothing. Getting rid of those 2 are no brainers. If we want to have down years that result in us going 7-5 instead of down years where we go 5-7 we can't lose 2 of our top in state targets to programs the caliber of Louisville. I don't expect to be elite all the time or even most of the time. I also don't think it is ok to go 5-7 in today's college football at our university. Especially with the way we schedule and the team we draw every year from the SEC east.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smootness

Basketball is still far more coach-driven than football.

---

That's bullshit. If Howland was at SEMO State in Missouri you're telling me he would recruit just as well while also landing the top in state players?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

Again, all the same hype and talk that AU gets every year. Under Gus, they won't be any better. It's not crazy, it's what he has done with all the talent he has had.

---

He hasnt had "all that talent"- that why they have had to play alot of young guys the last 2 years

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Todd4State

That's bullshit. If Howland was at SEMO State in Missouri you're telling me he would recruit just as well while also landing the top in state players?

---

Yes, he would.

Same way Pearl is getting kids at AU, the way Stans is getting big time players to Western Kentucky.

Same way That mad man at SC got kids to come to KSU.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Random Poster

He hasnt had "all that talent"- that why they have had to play alot of young guys the last 2 years

---

Yeah, cause the 2013 #13, 2014 #8, 2015 #3, and 2016 #9 signing classes rated by Scout were just loaded with 3 stars and pumped up because of over signing***

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jarius

I didn't say that he needs to fire everyone except for those 2. I said that everyone on our staff needs to at a minimum have the same intensity to recruit as Buckley does. I would imagine that there are more on our staff than Buckley that work hard on the recruiting trail. Hevesy and Sallach do almost nothing. Getting rid of those 2 are no brainers. If we want to have down years that result in us going 7-5 instead of down years where we go 5-7 we can't lose 2 of our top in state targets to programs the caliber of Louisville. I don't expect to be elite all the time or even most of the time. I also don't think it is ok to go 5-7 in today's college football at our university. Especially with the way we schedule and the team we draw every year from the SEC east.

---

Mullen has selective hearing with us fans. He only listens when he wants to. All other times it's just Holloway up the middle. He doesn't want to listen to our suggestions for his coaching staff. He seems to look at his coaches like he does his players. He isn't attracted to flashy stars.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

Yeah, cause the 2013 #13, 2014 #8, 2015 #3, and 2016 #9 signing classes rated by Scout were just loaded with 3 stars and pumped up because of over signing***

---

The culture in place by Chiz forced him to "weed" some of that talent out of there- some did it to themselves. Doesnt matter what the classes are ranked if they lose plenty of them

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Random Poster

The culture in place by Chiz forced him to "weed" some of that talent out of there- some did it to themselves. Doesnt matter what the classes are ranked if they lose plenty of them

---

Those are ALL Gus Bus classes buddy - so any "weeding" that impacted '16 would have been Redshirt Seniors. Gus had plenty of talent signed to make up for any of that by '16.

the 2013 one he came in late on.

So he has had 3 really good classes- made the Sugar in spite of being young- and positioned himself to play Bama for the SEC title next year. Doing a good job if you ask me

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Random Poster

The culture in place by Chiz forced him to "weed" some of that talent out of there- some did it to themselves. Doesnt matter what the classes are ranked if they lose plenty of them

---

This here is the bottom line:

Mullen has averaged an even 8 wins per season over a 7 year period. At Mississippi State. And you have folks wanting to run him out of town on a rail.

Malzahn has averaged 7.7 wins per year over the last 3 years. AT AUBURN, easily a top 10-15 job with top 10-15 resources and recruiting base. And you have folks propping him up as some elite coach. He is a one year wonder who is still milking a series of fluke plays into retaining his job 4 years later. If any one of the kick 6, prayer at Jordan Hare, last minute drive against MSU, or other lucky bullshit they pulled in 2013 hadn't happened, he would have already been fired.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Random Poster

the 2013 one he came in late on.

So he has had 3 really good classes- made the Sugar in spite of being young- and positioned himself to play Bama for the SEC title next year. Doing a good job if you ask me

---

You are way higher on him than Auburn's fans are. He's on the hot seat. I don't think he should be but he is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Random Poster

the 2013 one he came in late on.

So he has had 3 really good classes- made the Sugar in spite of being young- and positioned himself to play Bama for the SEC title next year. Doing a good job if you ask me

---

Auburn is a school where you should average 9 wins a season with an average coach. Malzahn hasn't been able to do that even when you include the flukey 2013 season where he got an extra game in Atlanta to pad the total against a mediocre Mizzou team. The word here in Alabama is he has to win 9 AND beat at least one out of Georgia and Bama to keep his job in 2018. We'll see how it turns out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HSVDawg

He is a one year wonder who is still milking a series of fluke plays into retaining his job 4 years later. If any one of the kick 6, prayer at Jordan Hare, last minute drive against MSU, or other lucky bullshit they pulled in 2013 hadn't happened, he would have already been fired.

---

Wow so true when you think about it but Gus also has a National Championship ring at Auburn as the OC with Chizik. Two Natty appearances has to carry some weight for him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dawg61

Wow so true when you think about it but Gus also has a National Championship ring at Auburn as the OC with Chizik. Two Natty appearances has to carry some weight for him.

---

But he has also proven he can't adapt when he doesn't have a freak QB (Cam) or lightening in a bottle QB (Marshall). They were bad early until he let Lashley take over play calling and the went run heavy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dawg61

Wow so true when you think about it but Gus also has a National Championship ring at Auburn as the OC with Chizik. Two Natty appearances has to carry some weight for him.

---

I honestly think Cam bailed both him and Chizik out in 2010. He was one of the most dominite college players ever at the QB position. Their defense was extremely mediocre that year and it just so happened that Cam's skillset meshed perfectly with what Malzahn wanted to do. They didn't truly realize what they had with him until 3 or 4 games into the season either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

But he has also proven he can't adapt when he doesn't have a freak QB (Cam) or lightening in a bottle QB (Marshall). They were bad early until he let Lashley take over play calling and the went run heavy.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HSVDawg

I honestly think Cam bailed both him and Chizik out in 2010. He was one of the most dominite college players ever at the QB position. Their defense was extremely mediocre that year and it just so happened that Cam's skillset meshed perfectly with what Malzahn wanted to do. They didn't truly realize what they had with him until 3 or 4 games into the season either.

---

Gus has proven to be a great offensive coach. His Tulsa teams were nasty on offense. His Arkansas team was nasty on offense, his Arkansas State team was nasty on offense and his Springdale team was nasty on offense. You can even go back two more high schools both nasty on offense. Basically his entire coaching career he has been nasty on offense except with Sean White. I'll take 25 years of nasty offense over 2 shitty years with Sean White as proof he is a great coach. Plus they whipped our ass this year with Pettway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dawg61

Gus has proven to be a great offensive coach. His Tulsa teams were nasty on offense. His Arkansas team was nasty on offense, his Arkansas State team was nasty on offense and his Springdale team was nasty on offense. You can even go back two more high schools both nasty on offense. Basically his entire coaching career he has been nasty on offense except with Sean White. I'll take 25 years of nasty offense over 2 shitty years with Sean White as proof he is a great coach. Plus they whipped our ass this year with Pettway.

---

His Arkansas offense? Hahaha. That was Houston Nutt all the way. Malzahn was a glorified clipboard holder for Nutt with an OC title that was only given to him in order to land Mitch Mustain. He was as much the OC at Arkansas as Billy Gonzalez is at MSU. He has had two high level SEC offenses in 8 years as an OC / HC. Those were 2010 and 2013. He's also had several average to slightly above average offenses and a few terrible ones. I couldn't really care less what he did a CUSA or Sun Belt school or a high school. He is a decent offensive mind, but his window dressing is starting to be figured out by DC's throughout the league. He hasn't proven capable of adapting quite yet. And them whipping our ass with Pettway proved nothing. Everybody whipped our D's ass this year both running and throwing, including Samford.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HSVDawg

His Arkansas offense? Hahaha. That was Houston Nutt all the way. Malzahn was a glorified clipboard holder for Nutt with an OC title that was only given to him in order to land Mitch Mustain. He was as much the OC at Arkansas as Billy Gonzalez is at MSU. He has had two high level SEC offenses in 8 years as an OC / HC. Those were 2010 and 2013. He's also had several average to slightly above average offenses and a few terrible ones. I couldn't really care less what he did a CUSA or Sun Belt school or a high school. He is a decent offensive mind, but his window dressing is starting to be figured out by DC's throughout the league. He hasn't proven capable of adapting quite yet. And them whipping our ass with Pettway proved nothing. Everybody whipped our D's ass this year both running and throwing, including Samford.

---

Nutt ran a pounding running game with McFadden and Felix Jones and benched Mustain for Casey Dick. It was not a Gus Bus offense. It was all Nutt. Gus realized he had been used by Nutt to get Mustain and Williams and they all bolted after 1 year. And Gus was way out of his element this year with 2 pounding RBs - which is why Lashley started calling plays. Then amazingly, their offense comes together. Gus is a 1 trick pony.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

But he has also proven he can't adapt when he doesn't have a freak QB (Cam) or lightening in a bottle QB (Marshall). They were bad early until he let Lashley take over play calling and the went run heavy.

---

Kinda like Dan Mullen huh?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Percho

What do you believe that we needed to do to keep Odom that has not been done?
Do you not think Dan Mullen understands that we need better players at all positions and is trying to get those players in a legal manner?

---

I stated this earlier I this thread I believe, and it's that no one seems to be talking about recruiting improprieties. Maybe there is a good reason we lose guys late in the process. $$$$ We are watching our neighbors go through it right now and you know they are not the only ones(wouldn't put anything past Patrino). Just another thing we may be battling(not saying we are squeaky clean either). Watch Last Chance U. Don't think kids aren't asking for it either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Random Poster

Kinda like Dan Mullen huh?

---

Touche

Although,there are some big differences with Dan and Gus. Gus may be able to recruit, but he obviously can't develop a QB. He has ruined many who were "sure fire, can't miss" prospects.
Also, how much of Gus's recruiting is Gus vs. Ole Yella Wood and Friends??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jarius

He needs to keep Grantham as our one coach that doesn't have to be an ace recruiter and everyone else he has on staff needs to be as passionate about recruiting as Terrell Buckley. That won't get us to an Alabama level but at least we won't hear our flips saying someone else was "giving them more love". If I read that one more time I may vomit.

---

Showing more love could have two meanings
1. Getting out worked(which I couldn't stand for)
2. $$$$$$$$

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

Touche

Although,there are some big differences with Dan and Gus. Gus may be able to recruit, but he obviously can't develop a QB. He has ruined many who were "sure fire, can't miss" prospects.
Also, how much of Gus's recruiting is Gus vs. Ole Yella Wood and Friends??

---

He certainly is not as good as Mullen as a QB coach- but what he did with Marshall was impressive. White was also coming along nicely until he got hurt. If their 5-star guy comes in and plays close to what he did at Baylor- and Franklin accepts a move to slot so he can get on the field- their offense is going to be hard to handle

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Random Poster

He certainly is not as good as Mullen as a QB coach- but what he did with Marshall was impressive. White was also coming along nicely until he got hurt. If their 5-star guy comes in and plays close to what he did at Baylor- and Franklin accepts a move to slot so he can get on the field- their offense is going to be hard to handle

---

Marshall had already showed he was a freak athlete who had the skills. Marshall is still 12th in career passing yards in GA HS history (was #5 when his career ended) and 3rd in passing TD's, and threw for over 3000 yards in his JUCO season. Gus didn't develop him or really improve him as a QB. It's not like he was an unknown like Fitz. Marshall is no different than Bo Wallace or Chad Kelly. If anything, Richt should be embarrassed that UGA had him at CB.

Gus is Freeze with more $ and talent on the roster.

Totally disagree

Marshall was a project that Gus turned into a good SEC QB. Hell, Marshall threw 20 interceptions in his 1 year as a juco QB. 20 picks in juco. He only threw 13 in 2 years against SEC competition under Gus.

Malzahn has finished ahead of Mullen offensively 5 of 7 years. Next year will be 6 of 8

Malzahn called good plays with Marshall, he didn't develop him into a QB. Now, it's certainly fair to ask what the difference is, and as long as it's effective, there's really not a difference. But if you're relying on just calling the right plays and not on actual QB development, you're going to be limited unless you have certain types of athletes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Random Poster

Malzahn has finished ahead of Mullen offensively 5 of 7 years. Next year will be 6 of 8

---

Malzahn has a much more talented and better offensive line. That makes everything easier.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Random Poster

Totally disagree

Marshall was a project that Gus turned into a good SEC QB. Hell, Marshall threw 20 interceptions in his 1 year as a juco QB. 20 picks in juco. He only threw 13 in 2 years against SEC competition under Gus.

Malzahn has finished ahead of Mullen offensively 5 of 7 years. Next year will be 6 of 8

---

How is a guy who had thrown for 8500 yards in high school and 3100 yards in JUCO a project? I think the high INT was more about kid who had a couple years of rust showing out in a gunslinger style offense. Gus, like Freeze, does a great job of calling a passing game and choosing high percentage plays. But a lot of it is dink and dunk, bubble screens, etc. Malzahn, like Freeze, also recognized that Marshall (like Kelly and Dr. Bo for Hugh) fit his system to a T.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1bigdawg

Malzahn has a much more talented and better offensive line. That makes everything easier.

---

That's Mullen's fault. He needs to recruit better- which is how this whole thread got started

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

How is a guy who had thrown for 8500 yards in high school and 3100 yards in JUCO a project? I think the high INT was more about kid who had a couple years of rust showing out in a gunslinger style offense. Gus, like Freeze, does a great job of calling a passing game and choosing high percentage plays. But a lot of it is dink and dunk, bubble screens, etc. Malzahn, like Freeze, also recognized that Marshall (like Kelly and Dr. Bo for Hugh) fit his system to a T.

---

Because nobody wanted him to be a D-1 QB coming out of HS. That should tell you something

Gus's classes at auburn, including the current one, have averaged 8th in the country according to 247 composite. Dans have averaged 26th.
Since regular season is what matters according to RP, Gus's average is 8-4 and dans is 7-5. Only a one win difference despite recruiting 18 spots higher on average?!
Plus they are 2-2 head to head.