Have you actually WATCHED the guy you want to cut make 35% of his 3 point attempts in the past month? Yeah, we're not good right now. No one is arguing that we are. But it's also clear that we're improving.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
Have you actually WATCHED the guy you want to cut make 35% of his 3 point attempts in the past month? Yeah, we're not good right now. No one is arguing that we are. But it's also clear that we're improving.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
and people wonder why I have made so many "I told you so" posts over the years- this thread is a perfect exampleQuote:
Originally Posted by thf24
Davis and Applewhite were his first recruiting class, Ready is his second.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
No....just noQuote:
Originally Posted by tcdog70
You dont hire a guy in April and then after it takes him some time at his new job- he manages sign a couple of leftovers late because he needs the bodies. Thats not a recruiting class. Dont be stupid.
I'm wondering when the C34 I knew for eight years is coming back? Ya know the one that posted over 25,000 posts against Stansbury. You can love Ray all you want but it'd be nice to get your basketball input back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Did you watch our last Game? Davis had four straight trips down the floor where he bricked it or threw it the 17 away. We went down 9 points in that span. Wilson really isn't a post player but he can play some power forward. Hell, Adrian Dantley was 6'4" and so was Charles Barkley. I don't see why Wilson should get a few more minutes. In the game I've seen He blocks out, rebounds, doesn't turn it over and best of all he defends. I guess Alabama didn't have any players worth a shit so they just gave MR BASKETBALL to that No-talented Bear Wilson***.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Stevens
Here is a simple answer to this question...
Rick Ray is a better X and O coach than Stands period
Our team plays harder and RR gets more out of his players than prob 80% of the teams Stands had.
But he has to recruit better or find a way to get more W's or year 4 will be his last..
That is your Opinion. he has actually had 2 regular recruitings and an early signing.Do you think he wasn't recruiting players when he was at Clemson as was his main man Flanigan. But keep spinning and people that don't know better might think You no what you are talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
I call Bull Shit. Give an example of Ray's Xs and Os being better. I have not seen it.I have seen Ready, Bloodman and Davis look like a BullFighter with their olays. They just stand back watch their player drive in for easy bunnies. More teams get wide ass opens 3s than I have ever seen at MSU.R Johnson doesn't hustle that is why Ray jerks Him out of game.Quote:
Originally Posted by mic
So you are saying-Bost, Hood, Moultrie ,Varnado, Stewart, and the list can go on and on didn't play hard?
I'm not sure what you want from me. Ray has been facing a total rebuild, players that wont stop smoking dope, and injuries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
The guy can coach. We do a great job in our zone offense. We cant shoot worth a shit yet we still manage to break zone defenses down to get shots. We dont just launch 30 3-pointers vs a zone like we did under Stands because they didnt understand how to attack a zone.
We come out of time-outs and get good shots that you can tell were drawn up in the huddle.
We get to the FT line at home because we attack the basket- which is this team's strength.
We defend pretty well but struggle with rebounding alot due to size and lack of depth
Davis is a better player than a Twanny Beckham- whom we have signed in the past. He's a freshman playing his 1st college basketball coming off a knee injury. He will get better. Just like Ware will, and Sword, and FTF, and so on
Judge Ray on the next 2 seasons- that will tell you what you need to know
Then you havent watched or you cant comprehend itQuote:
Originally Posted by tcdog70
Our zone offense under Ray compared to Stands is light years ahead. Stands team used to stand around and pass around the perimeter vs zones and launch 25-30 3 pointers. That was the zone offense.
Ray's team moves ball, overloads a side, sets screens to penetrate, and does all kinds of things to attack zone defenses
It's literally like not even close.
Wilson's very 1st trip down the floor vs Kentucky he gave up an offensive rebound and put back right over him. You guys need to stop telling everybody what he was in HS and watch him playQuote:
Originally Posted by tcdog70
That's exactly what I want from ya. Your basketball input. Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
No, Just NoQuote:
Originally Posted by tcdog70
There was no opinion in what I said. He got here in April after being hired. And then he had to meet people on campus, meet boosters, meet his new team, evaluate on film what he had on said team, and then decide what in the hell he could find out there to bring in at a very late date. Basketball players sign in Nov and then it opens back up in March for the rest who are still unsigned. There is very little left to sign by mid to late April. That's not opinion- that's fact.
All you do is show an agenda when you act like he had time to get a recruiting class together at that late of a date
Agreed on Ray having a better offense in the half-court than Stansbury but Stans had far superior players that more than made up that difference. Put our #2 seed team with this offense and we beat anyone but Xavier that year.
Zone offense is better under Ray but I still don't consider it good. IMO ball movement is still a touch too slow and I really think we should utilize the high post a bit more. Like many of Stans teams we're still not a very good passing team and there isn't a lot of natural basketball IQ out there - but that's not a problem limited to MSU. AAU is destroying that and you can see it across all of college basketball.
Purely X&O from what I've seen, I think Ray is a solid coach. Nothing spectacular but far from inept. So that means it all comes down to if he can get his talent level up with players that fit his style and requirements. That's a lot tougher to do in the Southeast than many of you make it.
Let's use Southern Miss' recent return to small relevance in the sport as an example. They have all of 3 players from the Southeast. And of those 3 only two get PT and account for about 12 points and 5 rebounds combined.
No. And I'd love a link to me saying such.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadDawg
I think Ray deserves a fair shake starting out -- like Cohen deserved a fair shake he didn't get. But our dumbass fans are taking the same dumbass approach -- simply makng the rebuild longer and hurting what they profess to love.
So, you are comparing Ray to someone we couldn't possibly hope to hire. Got it**
This is a perfect example of skewing toward an agenda.Quote:
Originally Posted by tcdog70
Further example of skewing for an agenda.Quote:
Originally Posted by tcdog70
We do have spurts of playing excellent defense, but your idea that this team "plays harder than prob 80% or the teams Stands had" is laughable. Just curious: Why do you call him "Stands"?Quote:
Originally Posted by mic
Stans' second team at MSU was sub-500(14-16). He had built that team for 10 years at MSU. Let's compare apples to apples instead of looking at the height of the Stansbury era to either intentionally or unintentionally skew the argument against Ray...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
if you don't think this teams plays harder that than a lot of the teams that Stands threw out there then I cant help ya..Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkernhelldawg
Last 15 years in SEC basketball most wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
1 Kentucky
2 Florida
3 Tennessee
4 MSU
Tennessee will not hire Pearl back and #1&2 ain't hiring a new coach any decade soon so why can't the next team with the most wins be able to hire Bruce Pearl coming off sanctions and being fired? Remember which team we beat in the SEC Championship game in 2009? Bruce Pearl's Tennessee. He knows all about MSU.
Why can't we win big in the same mold? Why can't we find pipelines to players from fundamental feeder high schools around the country? Why does the number of stars next to that player's name matter?Quote:
Originally Posted by Irondawg
What I find curious is the "Trust Mullen evaluation over Starz" approach our fans take -- yet they turn DIRECTLY around and bash Ray over his "StarZ recruiting". Seems an awful lot like trying to have your cake and eat it too.
All I'm saying is -- there is NO NEED to define Ray on anything until year 3. Next year, he better get it done. Can you "break down" games in these first 2 years and bitch about a ton of stuff compared to Stansbury? SURE. You could do the same EXACT thing with Cohen compared to Polk -- and alot of people did. Doesn't make it any more right and any less harmful to MSU and the general feelings surrounding the program...
Just think, if Stans could have got his talented teams to play with half the hustle Ray gets, we would have multiple national championships by now. ***Quote:
Originally Posted by mic
Hey engie, I think this is another one of those "skewing toward an agenda" posts.
I agree that a blanket statement like "80% of Stansbury's teams" is untrue. What is true is that all of Ray's players play hard, while only those who were self-motivated played hard under Stansbury for the most part. Most of his teams played good defense and rebounded well because he recruited more of that type of player than not for about 2/3 of his tenure, but it became apparent that he was limited as a motivator when that ratio began to flip around 2007-2008 as he was bringing in more attitude problems than workers.Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkernhelldawg
I am/was right in line behind C34 in wanting Stansbury gone. I wanted Stansbury fired and every single one of us had visions of a different coach than Stricklin. Ray wanted that pressure. He said he was the man for it. I'm holding him to that but I'm not going to sit back and let Ray turn back the clock to 1974 when players stayed for 4 seasons. College basketball is 1 year and renews. Ray has 4 that don't need renews. I'll settle for 2. Go get TWO SHOOTERS and I'll shut the **** up.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
What the heck makes you think UT won't hire him back? Cuonzo is CLEARLY on the hot seat right now and their fans are CLAMORING for Pearl. And all those wins don't mean anything. They were never significant enough for us to build a badass basketball arena that brought in revenue comparable to the top of the SEC. As such, we're still on the lower tier of basketball money. And Bruce Pearl is about to get PAID by someone nationally and will be the hottest name in coaching coming off his Show-Cause. So, unless you can figure out how we can come up with $2.5-$3million(in which case we probably could have gotten Shaka on the front end), then Bruce Pearl is outside of our league right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
So, you disagree that years 1 and 2 were going to be a rebuild no matter what or who we hired? If that part can be assumed...what, then, are you bitching about?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
It's a play on his nickname because of the irony that the man ran a "motion" offense- but our team did nothing but "stand" around on offense alot of the timeQuote:
Originally Posted by drunkernhelldawg
No need to point it out. Everyone already knows what your agenda is.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadDawg
I've seen MSU walk the ball up the court more times this year than the 14 seasons of Stansbury combined. Yes Ray's teams play hard AT TIMES but let's not act like they are the example of a hard working team and not the norm. VCU plays hard. Michigan State plays hard. Mississippi State doesn't play hard at all. With Stansbury or with Rick Ray.Quote:
Originally Posted by thf24
swing...... and a missQuote:
Originally Posted by engie
What are you going to do? Post your displeasure on a message board so that 1% of our fanbase will see it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
I've seen this too. Don't know about the "more times than the 14 seasons" part, but I've seen stretches of lazy play. I've seen Ware take whole plays off where he didn't even make it back to play defense. Reminded me of Sideny. I've seen the motionless offense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
But when we stand around and lob up a prayer and it bricks off the backboard, the mantra is that we just don't have any shooters. When it happened under the old regime, it was because we were too lazy or the coaches didn't know how to run an offense.
Bringing the ball up the court has nothing to do with playing hard. If our players are as bad as you say they are, do you really want to see them try to play fast and force plays in transition?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
Another problem with your points besides being mostly rooted in fantasy instead of reality is that most of them contradict each other.
L O LQuote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
Not being sarcastic here. I'm impressed by the construction. Appreciate it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Yet you only show up when it's time to bitch about our current basketball coach and team.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadDawg
Your agenda is totally transparent -- and this isn't a new occurrence. It's been consistent for 2 years now.