The wheels are falling off....

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Originally Posted by Jarius

Lord have mercy guy. You think everyone in America didn’t try drop 8 on Leach before this year? Do you honestly think he is facing a different defense right now than he has faced the past 20 years? Do you really think that his teams at Texas Tech or Washington State could not put up a shit ton of yards and points on the Vanderbilt defense we played last weekend? We suck right now because we have 4 years worth of players on our roster recruited to a run heavy scheme on top of no spring training during a total offensive Overhaul. We may never be great but we are awful because of those reasons. Thinking the system has been figured out so well that garbage teams like Vandy can now stop it with garbage athletes every year is probably the absolute dumbest take on this site, and that is saying something.

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Thank you for being a voice of reason on here.

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Originally Posted by Jarius

Lord have mercy guy. You think everyone in America didn?t try drop 8 on Leach before this year? Do you honestly think he is facing a different defense right now than he has faced the past 20 years? Do you really think that his teams at Texas Tech or Washington State could not put up a shit ton of yards and points on the Vanderbilt defense we played last weekend? We suck right now because we have 4 years worth of players on our roster recruited to a run heavy scheme on top of no spring training during a total offensive Overhaul. We may never be great but we are awful because of those reasons. Thinking the system has been figured out so well that garbage teams like Vandy can now stop it with garbage athletes every year is probably the absolute dumbest take on this site, and that is saying something.

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If his offense is so outdated, how did he win 11 games just two years ago? He beat Oregon by 14, won at Stanford, and lost at USC by only 3 points. Those Pac-12 coaches had already faced Leach for years.

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Originally Posted by MedDawg

If his offense is so outdated, how did he win 11 games just two years ago? He beat Oregon by 14, won at Stanford, and lost at USC by only 3 points. Those Pac-12 coaches had already faced Leach for years.

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It's not outdated..... once the players get a grasp of the offense, they'll be able to move the ball faster and keep the defense on their heals. Getting to the LOS faster and snapping the ball will confuse defenses in zone assignments and open up for bigger plays. It'll happen..... it just sucks right now.

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Originally Posted by FISHDAWG

it took 5 Vandy turnovers for us to beat them and I also believed they outgained us ...Everyone has figured out this offense

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Everyone has been running the same defense Leach is facing right now for 20 years. They have figured out that this particular team can’t beat drop 8 coverage. That plan will not work long term against Leach and there are 20 years of proof to back that up. If you think differently you don’t know what you are talking about.

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Originally Posted by MedDawg

If his offense is so outdated, how did he win 11 games just two years ago? He beat Oregon by 14, won at Stanford, and lost at USC by only 3 points. Those Pac-12 coaches had already faced Leach for years.

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You are correct. We have a lot of fans that are mad and justifiably so but they are truly letting their ignorance shine right now.

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Originally Posted by Jarius

Everyone has been running the same defense Leach is facing right now for 20 years. They have figured out that this particular team can?t beat drop 8 coverage. That plan will not work long term against Leach and there are 20 years of proof to back that up. If you think differently you don?t know what you are talking about.

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if this particular team can't beat the drop 8 coverage then why does Leach use the same old game plan ?

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Originally Posted by Jarius

Lord have mercy guy. You think everyone in America didn?t try drop 8 on Leach before this year? Do you honestly think he is facing a different defense right now than he has faced the past 20 years? Do you really think that his teams at Texas Tech or Washington State could not put up a shit ton of yards and points on the Vanderbilt defense we played last weekend? We suck right now because we have 4 years worth of players on our roster recruited to a run heavy scheme on top of no spring training during a total offensive Overhaul. We may never be great but we are awful because of those reasons. Thinking the system has been figured out so well that garbage teams like Vandy can now stop it with garbage athletes every year is probably the absolute dumbest take on this site, and that is saying something.

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Pick the ****ing game that they did. I've watched over 15 WSU games and probably 10 TT and no one tried it until Washington and no one has copied it until this year.

Seriously - tell me the game and i'll pull up highlights or the actual game.

Here is a pro tip - Defensive coordinators are ****ing stubborn as hell. Don't believe me, ask LSU Fans right now.

Why do you think Washington was so successful against him and everyone else wasn't? Because they decided to drop 8 pretty much the entire game. Other teams couldn't do it because their talent was so terrible, but in the SEC even Vandy has NFL players on defense. Well, not this year's Vandy but most years Vandy has a few NFL players on defense.

So instead of spouting bullshit with no facts to support it - point me to a game that the other team played the 3-8 the majority of the game that wasn't Washington, Arkansas, Kentucky and A&M.

Youtube is great, so this shouldn't take long. I'll wait for the game.

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Originally Posted by Jarius

Everyone has been running the same defense Leach is facing right now for 20 years. They have figured out that this particular team can’t beat drop 8 coverage. That plan will not work long term against Leach and there are 20 years of proof to back that up. If you think differently you don’t know what you are talking about.

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This is simply false. I can show you as many games as you want where USC and Oregon would blitz, rush 4 and 5. Let me know and I'll pull up the games. This is simply false.

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Originally Posted by MedDawg

If his offense is so outdated, how did he win 11 games just two years ago? He beat Oregon by 14, won at Stanford, and lost at USC by only 3 points. Those Pac-12 coaches had already faced Leach for years.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmUAZRWFuVM&t=567s

Go tell me how many times USC dropped 8.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkkZkDdUA9A

Go tell me how many times Oregon dropped 8.

I'm not lying to y'all, teams kept bringing 4 and 5. Peterson's DC figured it out. No one copied him until this year. Probably because the UW's DC was talking about how easy Leach was to defend and it caught people's attention.

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Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

This is simply false. I can show you as many games as you want where USC and Oregon would blitz, rush 4 and 5. Let me know and I'll pull up the games. This is simply false.

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If you think this is the first time Leach has faced drop 8 you are a god damn idiot. Oregon ran it almost exclusively during many games against Leach. Multiple teams ran it and he beat it more times than not.

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Originally Posted by Jarius

If you think this is the first time Leach has faced drop 8 you are a god damn idiot. Oregon ran it almost exclusively.

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Do i actually have to go play by play in the video above? Did you watch the damn film? Watch the film above and then come on here and say Oregon dropped 8 every time so I know you are a liar and I can simply ignore you.

I am going to ask one more time. Running the very same plays we have run to date this year, how many points do you believe Leach would score if he were coaching Alabama's players against the teams we have played? What about the drop eights? How much more time would the QB have to throw the ball?

Just flip the talent level and tell me what you think?

The truth is we would maybe be undefeated yet by thin margins and there would be moaning and groaning.

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Originally Posted by Percho

I am going to ask one more time. Running the very same plays we have run to date this year, how many points do you believe Leach would score if he were coaching Alabama's players against the teams we have played? What about the drop eights? How much more time would the QB have to throw the ball?

Just flip the talent level and tell me what you think?

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If that is what it will take to have Leach win at MSU, than we have made a mistake somewhere. No one is upset that we can't beat Bama. I'm concerned that we can't move the ball against A&M, Kentucky, Vandy and Arkansas.

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Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

Do i actually have to go play by play in the video above? Did you watch the damn film? Watch the film above and then come on here and say Oregon dropped 8 every time so I know you are a liar and I can simply ignore you.

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No, dumbass you don’t. In some games they did not because it was obviously not working. It rarely worked against his offense, so it was rarely used on a large scale. Oregon used it many times as Leach has said himself (And he constantly beat it). When it did work, teams kept running it. This isn’t hard.

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Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

Pick the ****ing game that they did. I've watched over 15 WSU games and probably 10 TT and no one tried it until Washington and no one has copied it until this year.

Seriously - tell me the game and i'll pull up highlights or the actual game.

Here is a pro tip - Defensive coordinators are ****ing stubborn as hell. Don't believe me, ask LSU Fans right now.

Why do you think Washington was so successful against him and everyone else wasn't? Because they decided to drop 8 pretty much the entire game. Other teams couldn't do it because their talent was so terrible, but in the SEC even Vandy has NFL players on defense. Well, not this year's Vandy but most years Vandy has a few NFL players on defense.

So instead of spouting bullshit with no facts to support it - point me to a game that the other team played the 3-8 the majority of the game that wasn't Washington, Arkansas, Kentucky and A&M.

Youtube is great, so this shouldn't take long. I'll wait for the game.

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wished I could rep this .... most folks here only know what they have heard and take it for gospel without fact checking.... I knew who Leach was and what he's about and still support him even tho I (like many) have doubts ... I (like many here) believe he should get 3 years at minimum ... I (like a few here) don't think he's going to succeed with his current format as it is but just because a few of us aren't yet sold on his offense doesn't make us idiots or doesn't mean we don't know what we are talking about ... HE needs to show us that he can compete against it and don't tell me we don't have the athletes to compete when we have seen the last many years that we DO have the athletes to compete

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Originally Posted by FISHDAWG

wished I could rep this .... most folks here only know what they have heard and take it for gospel without fact checking.... I knew who Leach was and what he's about and still support him even tho I (like many) have doubts ... I (like many here) believe he should get 3 years at minimum ... I (like a few here) don't think he's going to succeed with his current format as it is but just because a few of us aren't yet sold on his offense doesn't make us idiots or doesn't mean we don't know what we are talking about ... HE needs to show us that he can compete against it and don't tell me we don't have the athletes to compete when we have seen the last many years that we DO have the athletes to compete

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Go ahead and rep his ignorance. Watch this video which is literally the first one I pulled up. 34 of the 48 points scored by Washington State were against drop 8 coverage and when they were not in drop 8 they were largely only bringing 4, which is also what we have seen and struggled with this year.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wjMd0n2_V5Y

Vandy didn't drop 8 to defend? The past is not interesting to what the present is at the moment. Being stubborn and not making offensive adjustments is the problem. I'm not for firing Leach this year and not next year, I just don't see him being at Msu after 4 years.

HailState, I can't wait till he gets his players and we can have spring practice****

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Originally Posted by Jarius

Go ahead and rep his ignorance. Watch this video which is literally the first one I pulled up. 34 of the 48 points scored by Washington State were against drop 8 coverage and when they were not in drop 8 they were largely only bringing 4, which is also what we have seen and struggled with this year.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wjMd0n2_V5Y

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I only watched two offensive series ... I saw a few 3 man fronts mixed in with mostly 4 man fronts ... occasionally the DE would drop back at the snap. On the second series I saw 4 man fronts almost exclusively .... I saw more much more 4 man than 3 man lines ... you would have thought he would have an answer to it by now

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Originally Posted by FISHDAWG

I only watched two offensive series ... I saw a few 3 man fronts mixed in with mostly 4 man fronts ... occasionally the DE would drop back at the snap. On the second series I saw 4 man fronts almost exclusively .... I saw more much more 4 man than 3 man lines ... you would have thought he would have an answer to it by now

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Almost every score was off the drop 8. That’s why they were not running it. Just watched the 2016 game. They did the same thing. When Oregon dropped 8 Faulk had about 15 seconds to throw the ball, and he either threw the ball to the open man or took off and picked up 7 yards. That coverage works when you can get pressure with your front 3 or 4, but most teams could not and it was too easy for Leach to attack. It is just amazingly arrogant to think that people on this board know more than defensive coordinators who have faced leach for 20 years. Not just some of them, but literally all of them.