Add Chris Jones to the list of pro athletes that think the earth is flat

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Originally Posted by Dawg2003

Goodness, I obviously hit a nerve. You seem to feel really strongly about your beliefs. What evidence do you have of an intelligent designer? I've read the arguments for an intelligent designer and wasn't convinced. Maybe I'm missing something.

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Nah, not missing a thing by everything I've learned in all my years.

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Originally Posted by MrKotter

You?re missing a lot. If you?ve gotten this far in life and are still this stupid then there is nothing anyone on this board can do for you. You?re a lost cause. I don?t agree with 99 much but do that you millennials are 17?d in the head. Lazy and flat out stupid

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So by not suspending logic and not taking a leap of faith that an old man in the sky designed all of us is being "lazy and stupid"? The entire concept of faith is suspending logic at some point. If you believe in god and religion, great for you, but you have can't call someone "lazy and stupid" for not taking the same leap of faith.

Do you think Muslims are "lazy and stupid" because they were raised to believe in the wrong religion? Jews? Buddhists? Hindus? Mormons? What makes their beliefs "lazy and stupid" but yours totally the result of high level intelligence and a strong work ethic?

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Originally Posted by Dawg2003

I read that book and found it completely unconvincing. He never offered any counter arguments to his beliefs. He states a belief and then goes looking for someone/something to back it up. I've read all of his books and think most of them are bad. The only one that halfway convinced me was "The Case for Easter." He actually did bring up some legitimate arguments in that one. I bet he's made a fortune off of all those books though because people are desperate to believe in something. I don't blame them though because it's really depressing to think I won't see my parents again after they die. I'm willing to try to believe a lot of foolish stuff to avoid facing that reality.

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Boy, are you going to be:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TnkJ8_BmSI

I seen the world..in the full earth...and it is out there.

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Originally Posted by starkvegasdawg

Per his twitter earlier this afternoon. Is this like a new fad amongst pros now?

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It blows my mind that there are people that actually believe this....

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Originally Posted by Dawg2003

I mean, there's a certain amount of rational thought you have to suspend to believe in any religion. In order to believe creationism, you have to completely reject science. I honestly never knew creationists existed until I went to graduate school and met some. Of course, you also have to completely reject science and twist your mind into a pretzel to believe in God, so most people are irrational about something. Just don't become an anti-vaxxer because they are public nuisances.

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This is a whole load of horseshit.

Moreover, the whole, "you're wrong, because SCIENCE" thing is stupid and played out. I love how in the span of 30 minutes I can hear the same politician or the same commentator claim that man-made global warning is settled science, then claim that biological science of birthed gender is not real and people can choose their gender, then claim that religion is a crock, because SCIENCE, then ignore the anatomical science of an unborn baby and call it "a clump of cells."

In other words, people like to use science to support an argument, and then ignore it when it disproves an argument. I suspect you're one of those people.

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Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

That's a lot of projecting, 7. I never said you were stupid for being a Christian, so don't put words in my mouth. I said it's stupid to think the Earth is "6000" years old, given the mountain of scientific evidence we have pointing to the contrary. That is literally the exact same argument everyone is using against CJ and his Bronze Age nonsense. Being religious isn't a get-out-of-jail-free-card for rational competence.

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Boy too much to unpack in all this but I'll be brief on each.

First, two main Biblical beliefs about earth age. One is it is millions of years old as day in OT Genesis is interpreted as a long period of time. Most Christians believe in the other view of Biblical historical documents - proven if you pull all world history and Biblical geneology together the earth is around 6000 years old. That is not stupid to believe that which is what you said. Flat earth has science and the earth being young has history. Young earth does not go against science either. Carbon dating has been proven unreliable. Living mollusks have dated thousands of years old and many more studies. Carbon dating uses extrapolation of unknown data. Big errors in other places too.


As far as rational competence so for those that don't believe in God, can anyone explain for nothing times nothing equals everything? That is what those that believe evolution believe. It takes more faith to be a non believer than it does a Christian. Science and Christianity are not at odds, they are perfectly aligned.

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Originally Posted by starkvegasdawg

Per his twitter earlier this afternoon. Is this like a new fad amongst pros now?

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Who gives a sh*t. Why do you simple minded imbeciles worry about this stuff. We'll all be dead and gone one day, fact! And it won't matter one iota if you thought we went to the moon, the Yeti was real or if the freakin world is flat. GD!

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Originally Posted by Bubb Rubb

This is a whole load of horseshit.

Moreover, the whole, "you're wrong, because SCIENCE" thing is stupid and played out. I love how in the span of 30 minutes I can hear the same politician or the same commentator claim that man-made global warning is settled science, then claim that biological science of birthed gender is not real and people can choose their gender, then claim that religion is a crock, because SCIENCE, then ignore the anatomical science of an unborn baby and call it "a clump of cells."

In other words, people like to use science to support an argument, and then ignore it when it disproves an argument. I suspect you're one of those people.

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I think the whole trans thing is that sometimes the brain and the physical body don't sync up. What you pee out of may not be the same what your brain is wired. I don't think that's an ridiculous notion.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

Boy too much to unpack in all this but I'll be brief on each.

First, two main Biblical beliefs about earth age. One is it is millions of years old as day in OT Genesis is interpreted as a long period of time. Most Christians believe in the other view of Biblical historical documents - proven if you pull all world history and Biblical geneology together the earth is around 6000 years old. That is not stupid to believe that which is what you said. Flat earth has science and the earth being young has history. Young earth does not go against science either. Carbon dating has been proven unreliable. Living mollusks have dated thousands of years old and many more studies. Carbon dating uses extrapolation of unknown data. Big errors in other places too.


As far as rational competence so for those that don't believe in God, can anyone explain for nothing times nothing equals everything? That is what those that believe evolution believe. It takes more faith to be a non believer than it does a Christian. Science and Christianity are not at odds, they are perfectly aligned.

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I don't rule out some kinda force, energy, spirit, whatever, something that's out there that created the universe and what's even outside the universe that we are expanding into. But that's not the same thing as believing any one religion is the one that got god right, which is what anyone who claims to be religious believes. Everyone believes they are the right religion and the others are the wrong religion with no more evidence than the book they were told to believe when they were kids. As far as where the universe came from, obviously there was some kinda force. Whether that was god in the concept that religion tends to view god that caused the Big Bang or there's some scientific explanation we still haven't figured out that we just call "god", who knows, but I'm plenty fine assuming none of humanity's various religions have gotten it right about whatever god is out there pulling the strings. Just be kind to others and treat them how you want to be treated and it'll all work out in the end.

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Originally Posted by dawgs

I think the whole trans thing is that sometimes the brain and the physical body don't sync up. What you pee out of may not be the same what your brain is wired. I don't think that's an ridiculous notion.

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That you don?t think it?s a ridiculous notion is a ridiculous notion. If the brain and the physical body aren?t syncing up about something as fundamental as that, it?s because of conscious decision making and not some faulty wiring.

There are some legitimately transgendered people in this world...I?m not going to deny that. But the volume is extremely minuscule. Otherwise, like the kid in kindergarten cop said, ?boys have a penis, and girls have a ******.? SCIENCE! Being gay is one thing, but saying you identify as a woman when you are clearly a dude is pretty much a textbook example of mental illness.

But the whole point of my post was that if you will ignore obvious science to debate this point, don?t come back later and cite science to make an argument for something else.

I have been in the part of this world where the stories from the Bible took place for a good while. If you can come over here and deal with these people and still believe that they have ever had any clue as to who the true God is (or if there really is a God), then more power to you. Most of these idiots can't walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. Maybe they were a lot smarter 5 thousand years ago. Do you guys know what the average IQ was back then? I mean the things they used to do and believe in are ridiculous. I don't know what the truth is, but I'm equally confident that no one over here has ever had a clue either. That does not mean that there aren't some really good things to live by in multiple religions. I tend to think that people of devout religion have seen drastic improvements in their life because most religions are full of really good teachings that are great to live by in general (minus the nutjobs that want to blow people up or massacre people in the name of religion). If you follow actually the teachings of Christianity, you're generally going to be a pretty good dude and be a nice person. Your life is going to improve. That's awesome. I don't think it proves anything else. Maybe I'm wrong. I think if I go to hell for not believing something that can't be proven and happened thousands of years ago then that's not really fair.

anyway.......

As for the Chris Jones flat earth......I don't care. Hope he continues to do well and makes a boatload of money.

Just an observation I've made is the same scientists that don't believe in a Creator have no problem believing in something they can't detect and is purely theoretical they call dark matter and dark energy. They have to have it to make the math work for their theories. Personally I think people are hardwired to believe in something, whether it's science, religion or their politics.

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Originally Posted by Turfdawg67

Who gives a sh*t. Why do you simple minded imbeciles worry about this stuff. We'll all be dead and gone one day, fact! And it won't matter one iota if you thought we went to the moon, the Yeti was real or if the freakin world is flat. GD!

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I hope by now you've gotten all that sand out of your ******. Must have been awfully uncomfortable.

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Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

That's a lot of projecting, 7. I never said you were stupid for being a Christian, so don't put words in my mouth. I said it's stupid to think the Earth is "6000" years old, given the mountain of scientific evidence we have pointing to the contrary. That is literally the exact same argument everyone is using against CJ and his Bronze Age nonsense. Being religious isn't a get-out-of-jail-free-card for rational competence.

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It?s possible to be a creationist and still be rational. I think far too many Christians try to put God in a box. Research the Gap Theory. It is a wonderful theory of creation, followed by re-creation. It takes into account ?old earth?. Basically we just simply believe that ?in the beginning? and ?on the first day? are two separate events.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

Young earth does not go against science either. Carbon dating has been proven unreliable. Living mollusks have dated thousands of years old and many more studies. Carbon dating uses extrapolation of unknown data. Big errors in other places too.

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You couldn't be more wrong here, in literally every statement.

1. Carbon Dating....does it have limitations? Sure, almost all chemical analyses do, but C14 dating has improved dramatically in it's precision over the last 50 years. The calibrations have been finessed and are constantly checked and rechecked against standards. Many of the dates generated in its early days have been corrected.

2. Not sure why you'd even bring this up in a discussion about the Earth's age. It may come as a surprise to you, but C14 is not used to date the really really old materials from millions of years ago, i.e., fossils, volcanic eruptions, stratigraphy, etc.; different methods are used for that, such as Potassium-Argon, Lead Isotopes, Uranium Isotopes. The reason for this is because C14 dating has an age threshold of ca. 50-60 thousand years, and this limitation is pretty essential to our understanding of how Carbon 14 decays and it's ratio with C13.

3. What is this "proof" you speak of?

4. "Carbon dating uses extrapolation of unknown data"....what are you talking about here? C14 dating as a method and concept is actually pretty straight forward, and the "data" are certainly not "unknown".

5a. "Living mollusks have been dated to thousands of years old and many more studies"....ok, wth are you talking about here? Yeah, there are mollusks living today that, when their growth bands are counted, show that they've been alive for thousands of years....What does that have to do with C14 or the age of the Earth?

5b. There is a species of mollusk called Exogyra costata that went extinct at the end of the Cretaceous Period (60 million years ago), and you can find it's remains in abundance on and around MSU's campus, if you're so inclined (check the bluffs out by the disc golf course...can literally pick them up off the ground).

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

After reading this board for a few years I'm pretty sure the earth is square.

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It's egg shape.:)

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Originally Posted by Lord McBuckethead

To me, almost all of the stories of the Bible are parables, designed to teach us something in a manner that people who couldn't read could understand.

1. To me, Adam and Eve just a story. Didn't happen. If it did, it was 200k years ago and no one would remember the story.

2. Noah.... the world didn't flood, but maybe a small part did. 2 animals? nope, didn't happen.

3. Mosses, probably did happen for the most part.

4. Virgin Birth, maybe but a young girl gets pregnant out of wedlock and her betrothed still decides to marry her..... seems like there is a convenience to this story.

5. Resurrection, sure why not.

Most of the stories are BS. Only there to teach the dumb and illiterate something.

What I do believe, God and Jesus are great. Men have too much faith in a book and stories written by men. The only things that matter are, Jesus is the way to the Lord and be your neighbors keeper. We should be doing everything we can for our neighbors. Not locking them in cages. Not turning them away. Hell there are poeple in our communities that we all treat as they are less than. I say skip Sunday church and help out your neighbor that needs it. Put that 10% to work in your own community, first.

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I do agree the bible is taken to literally. Somehow hell is a real place. Many bible scholars agree that hell is a metaphor for "being out of present of god". The feeling is so bad it's like being in a burning lake.

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Originally Posted by Turfdawg67

Who gives a sh*t. Why do you simple minded imbeciles worry about this stuff. We'll all be dead and gone one day, fact! And it won't matter one iota if you thought we went to the moon, the Yeti was real or if the freakin world is flat. GD!

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And THAT, sir, is why we have been friends since the he dawn of time.

Bra..fckin....vo

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Originally Posted by PMDawg

What "triggers" me is complete dismissal of opposing points of view with sweeping generalizations. "Someone doesn't agree with me? Well they're (stupid/lazy/racist/bigoted/ect.)". No. There are good and intelligent people on both sides of virtually every debate. There is solid evidence on both sides of this debate. I freely admit that, based on our current scientific abilities, the universe appears extremely old. However, there is plenty of scientific evidence that it's young too. I cannot reconcile the two, and I know I never will in this life. But my faith allows me to understand that there is a reconciliation out there. Whether that means the earth is old or young is immaterial, my faith is in the only one who knows how they reconcile. My faith certainly isn't in man or our current version of science - both have been littered with failures throughout our 6,500 years of recorded history.

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Beardo is not your adversary in this. His position is that Christians are not all fundamentalist/biblical literalists and I see your point too.

Probably my oldest friend on this board pointed out to me years ago whenI was laughing about Scientology and it?s assertions about exploding volcanos, that my faith?s miracles was no less irrational. And he was absolutely correct. It probably shaped my belief from that moment forward.

Man?s INABILITY to understand or prove something is no indication of its impossibility.