Fitz is a better college Qb than Dak

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

10-29-2017, 09:15 PM
TUSK

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intramural All-American

Dak's career passer rating is 146, and that's drastically brought down by his sophomore year. Fitz has been in the 120s the past two years. Dak was the frontrunner for the Heisman through 9 games his junior season and he finished #7 I believe as the best player in college football that year. Then his senior year he threw 29 tds to only 5 picks. Daks senior season his completion percentage was 10 points higher than nicks current percentage.

Fitz is an elite runner, but he is nowhere near the complete package that Dak was. Fitz hasn't had to throw the ball this year, but when he has, he's failed to do so and we've gotten blown out. He also got benched at LSU last year because he couldn't pass.

In regards to one of your questions, dak would have beaten BYU last year, USA last year, and maybe Kentucky (that wasn't on Fitz, tho). Nick would not have beaten LSU in BR in 14.

Dak was a very good passer that had above average legs. He could beat you with both. Fitz is an elite runner but below average passer. If you shut down the run, Fitz can't beat you through the air. Fortunately, we've only needed Nick to really throw it in 2 games this year, and will only need him to 1 other game (He wont).

I like this post... I just think Fitz's weakness as a passer (specifically TD/INT Ratio, Yds/ATT, etc) makes a comparison to a cat like Dak a stretch, IMO....
10-29-2017, 09:34 PM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intramural All-American

No, QBR shows that Nick is an elite runner (top 2 in the country), but a poor passer. His running ability makes up the vast majority of that. I would not call someone a complete package who is viewed as a liability as a passer.

Fitz has 1986 total yards this year. He's on pace for 3200 total yards this year. Dak put up 4500 total yards his jr year and 4300 his Sr year.

According to ESPN, QBR was developed to measure the degree to which a quarterback contributed to scoring points for the team, and also to a win by the team. For example, completing a pass to earn a first down at the quarterback's own 20-yard-line with 30 seconds left in the game is unlikely to lead to any points for his team, but if they are already leading it increases the probability of winning, as it usually enables the leading team to run out the clock. This second criterion is quantified using a "win probability" function which ESPN developed by analyzing data for each play of NFL games over the previous decade.

The computation requires an examination of each play in which the quarterback was involved. For each play, the change in the expected value of the points scored by the two teams is determined along with the maximum possible change in points for each team. The net points gained by the offense on the play are divided between the players involved in the play based on how much each contributed to the points gained or lost. For example, on a play where the quarterback immediately hands the ball off to a running back after the snap, the quarterback's contribution is negligible. On passing plays the quarterback is likely to have a major contribution, along with the blockers and the receiver. The resulting value is compared to the maximum possible net point gain, and this comparison leads to a "net points percentage" value between 0 and 100 for the quarterback on each play which roughly represents the percentage of the possible point gain that the quarterback produced. This value is transformed so that a value of 50 represents the average net point gain of an NFL quarterback on the play.

The win probability function is then used to compute a "clutch index" for each play ranging from 0.3 to 3.0, with higher values corresponding to plays that have a greater influence on winning or losing the game. The QBR is obtained by taking the weighted average of the "points gained percentage" for each play, with each play having a weight equal to its clutch index. Thus the QBR has a range from 0 to 100 with 50 being considered average.[4]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tota...terback_rating

I love qbr as a stat. There are QBs that rack up garbage stats that run up their passing rating all over the country. Qbr is a much better stat that passer rating. I?m not saying dak racked up garbage stats at all... I love dak and rate him better myself; but I respect qbr so maybe fitz is a hell of lot better than most state give him credit for
10-30-2017, 03:29 AM
bulldawg28

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

According to ESPN, QBR was developed to measure the degree to which a quarterback contributed to scoring points for the team, and also to a win by the team. For example, completing a pass to earn a first down at the quarterback's own 20-yard-line with 30 seconds left in the game is unlikely to lead to any points for his team, but if they are already leading it increases the probability of winning, as it usually enables the leading team to run out the clock. This second criterion is quantified using a "win probability" function which ESPN developed by analyzing data for each play of NFL games over the previous decade.

The computation requires an examination of each play in which the quarterback was involved. For each play, the change in the expected value of the points scored by the two teams is determined along with the maximum possible change in points for each team. The net points gained by the offense on the play are divided between the players involved in the play based on how much each contributed to the points gained or lost. For example, on a play where the quarterback immediately hands the ball off to a running back after the snap, the quarterback's contribution is negligible. On passing plays the quarterback is likely to have a major contribution, along with the blockers and the receiver. The resulting value is compared to the maximum possible net point gain, and this comparison leads to a "net points percentage" value between 0 and 100 for the quarterback on each play which roughly represents the percentage of the possible point gain that the quarterback produced. This value is transformed so that a value of 50 represents the average net point gain of an NFL quarterback on the play.

The win probability function is then used to compute a "clutch index" for each play ranging from 0.3 to 3.0, with higher values corresponding to plays that have a greater influence on winning or losing the game. The QBR is obtained by taking the weighted average of the "points gained percentage" for each play, with each play having a weight equal to its clutch index. Thus the QBR has a range from 0 to 100 with 50 being considered average.[4]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tota...terback_rating

I love qbr as a stat. There are QBs that rack up garbage stats that run up their passing rating all over the country. Qbr is a much better stat that passer rating. I?m not saying dak racked up garbage stats at all... I love dak and rate him better myself; but I respect qbr so maybe fitz is a hell of lot better than most state give him credit for

Fitz for heisman! He's even on the hands team.
10-30-2017, 03:30 AM
bulldawg28

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

Dak threw for almost 500 yards....

I said win the game not throw for more yards. Fitz would have won that same game his way.
10-30-2017, 03:48 AM
bulldawg28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intramural All-American

Dak's career passer rating is 146, and that's drastically brought down by his sophomore year. Fitz has been in the 120s the past two years. Dak was the frontrunner for the Heisman through 9 games his junior season and he finished #7 I believe as the best player in college football that year. Then his senior year he threw 29 tds to only 5 picks. Daks senior season his completion percentage was 10 points higher than nicks current percentage.

Fitz is an elite runner, but he is nowhere near the complete package that Dak was. Fitz hasn't had to throw the ball this year, but when he has, he's failed to do so and we've gotten blown out. He also got benched at LSU last year because he couldn't pass.

In regards to one of your questions, dak would have beaten BYU last year, USA last year, and maybe Kentucky (that wasn't on Fitz, tho). Nick would not have beaten LSU in BR in 14.

Dak was a very good passer that had above average legs. He could beat you with both. Fitz is an elite runner but below average passer. If you shut down the run, Fitz can't beat you through the air. Fortunately, we've only needed Nick to really throw it in 2 games this year, and will only need him to 1 other game (He wont).

I was waiting on someone to go here.

It's not Fitz fault we lost to BYU, Kentucky, or USA. You're really blame him after playing 2 series? This alone nullifies your entire stance. Fitz is the reason we even had a chance in BYU and Kentucky. Is it Fitz fault we had no kicking game? Is it Fitz fault we had no defense? Is it Fitz fault the leading WR in MSU history dropped potential game winning touchdowns in both Kentucky and BYU? This senior WR had his worse year during Fitz first and Fitz still he led the SEC.

Dak was in the heisman conversation after playing his junior season. Fitz was mentioned there after leading the SEC after his Soph year. Dak did not do that. Your stating emotions. I'll go a little further. Due to his elite running ability we were able to destroy LSU. We absolutely do not win that game on Dak's legs and the inexperienced WR corp.

Fitz is a baddddd man!
10-30-2017, 06:00 AM
Coach34

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulldawg28

I was waiting on someone to go here.

It's not Fitz fault we lost to BYU, Kentucky, or USA. You're really blame him after playing 2 series? !

Yes- Fitz is to blame for losing to South Alabama. It's his fault because he was unable to distance himself from Williams which allowed Mullen to make the switch after 2 straight 3 and outs vs USA.

BYU? Fitz was 17/36- 47%. 16 carries/41 yards. Awful numbers.

Kentucky? Yes because ultimately he didnt get it done. Thats why they brought up the UPig '15 example on Dak. He got it done. Fitz in Kentucky didnt. Defense even scored a TD for us against Kentucky that night in the 4th Q to keep us in it
10-30-2017, 06:18 AM
Apoplectic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

Yes- Fitz is to blame for losing to South Alabama. It's his fault because he was unable to distance himself from Williams which allowed Mullen to make the switch after 2 straight 3 and outs vs USA.

BYU? Fitz was 17/36- 47%. 16 carries/41 yards. Awful numbers.

Kentucky? Yes because ultimately he didnt get it done. Thats why they brought up the UPig '15 example on Dak. He got it done. Fitz in Kentucky didnt. Defense even scored a TD for us against Kentucky that night in the 4th Q to keep us in it

If fitz had dak's receivers it would be a no-doubter. Fitz has had to thread a lot of needles just to get the yards he has now. Btw - I like that we're forcing more of the young receivers on the field now and targeting them.
10-30-2017, 07:16 AM
bulldawg28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

Yes- Fitz is to blame for losing to South Alabama. It's his fault because he was unable to distance himself from Williams which allowed Mullen to make the switch after 2 straight 3 and outs vs USA.

BYU? Fitz was 17/36- 47%. 16 carries/41 yards. Awful numbers.

Kentucky? Yes because ultimately he didnt get it done. Thats why they brought up the UPig '15 example on Dak. He got it done. Fitz in Kentucky didnt. Defense even scored a TD for us against Kentucky that night in the 4th Q to keep us in it

Lol...you predicted 5-6 wins with this team this year. That was due to Fitz, WR's, and OL. I told you 8 minimum because of Fitz and you wouldn't believe. We're 6 -2 because of Fitz and the D.
Blame it on the QB when it's a QB battle? WOW... I think Mullen understood the fragile egos and wanted to have legit competition. So it's Mullen' s fault all the Qb' s transferred too huh?

BYU- perfect pass to win the game WR dropped. Fitz fault, right. Dak had plenty of games he couldn't get it done. Losing to Ole Miss twice and the orange bowl immediately come to mind.

Still wrong you are.
10-30-2017, 07:29 AM
BrunswickDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

Yes- Fitz is to blame for losing to South Alabama. It's his fault because he was unable to distance himself from Williams which allowed Mullen to make the switch after 2 straight 3 and outs vs USA.

BYU? Fitz was 17/36- 47%. 16 carries/41 yards. Awful numbers.

Kentucky? Yes because ultimately he didnt get it done. Thats why they brought up the UPig '15 example on Dak. He got it done. Fitz in Kentucky didnt. Defense even scored a TD for us against Kentucky that night in the 4th Q to keep us in it

Dan is to blame for USA - regardless of who had/hadn't won the job, Dan should have decided who the #1 guy was after Spring practice so they could lead the team in summer practices. By not doing that, Dan created a schism within the team led by Dam. Williams (and from what I have heard Fred R.) that about killed the season. I think some key guys didn't buy in until the KY loss, when they saw Fitz put everything on his shoulders and almost single handed won the game.

I think Dan learned a big, big lesson last year and we never see a QB decision take that long again.
10-30-2017, 07:33 AM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

Yes- Fitz is to blame for losing to South Alabama. It's his fault because he was unable to distance himself from Williams which allowed Mullen to make the switch after 2 straight 3 and outs vs USA.

BYU? Fitz was 17/36- 47%. 16 carries/41 yards. Awful numbers.

Kentucky? Yes because ultimately he didnt get it done. Thats why they brought up the UPig '15 example on Dak. He got it done. Fitz in Kentucky didnt. Defense even scored a TD for us against Kentucky that night in the 4th Q to keep us in it

If you wanna compare them, use apples to apples. That was fitz soph year. Here?s some of dak soph year games...

LSU - 9/20 106 yds 1 int
South Carolina - 3 ints (justifiable here imo)
aTm - 14/26 149 yds 2 td 1 int

Oh and in the BYU game, fitz threw a dime that Peyton Manning would be proud of that Fred Ross dropped in the end zone in OT
10-30-2017, 08:21 AM
bulldawg28

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

If you wanna compare them, use apples to apples. That was fitz soph year. Here?s some of dak soph year games...

LSU - 9/20 106 yds 1 int
South Carolina - 3 ints (justifiable here imo)
aTm - 14/26 149 yds 2 td 1 int

Oh and in the BYU game, fitz threw a dime that Peyton Manning would be proud of that Fred Ross dropped in the end zone in OT

Did Dak even win five games starting his sophomore year?
10-30-2017, 08:29 AM
Sacrifice

This would be a good thread to revisit when Fitz finishes his senior year. He?s still wrighting his history
10-30-2017, 08:29 AM
BrunswickDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulldawg28

Did Dak even win five games starting his sophomore year?

Dak was 4-3 in 2013 as a starter.
10-30-2017, 08:32 AM
Intramural All-American

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

If you wanna compare them, use apples to apples. That was fitz soph year. Here?s some of dak soph year games...

LSU - 9/20 106 yds 1 int
South Carolina - 3 ints (justifiable here imo)
aTm - 14/26 149 yds 2 td 1 int

Oh and in the BYU game, fitz threw a dime that Peyton Manning would be proud of that Fred Ross dropped in the end zone in OT

Bulldawg28 is the one who asked for games Dak would have won that Fitz didn't. And the argument is that Fitz is better now than Dak was when he left. What Dak did his sophomore year is unmeaningful in this situation. Y'all still have not addressed the fact that Dak put up 1000 more total yards than Fitz will.

It's also funny that y'all act as if Dak was throwing to All-NFL players. None of Dak's WRs even got drafted, so a logical person would assume that Dak had a very large part in making them as good as they were.
10-30-2017, 08:37 AM
drunkernhelldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

Top 10 SEC Quarterbacks this decade (2011-present), made with a minimal amount of research so I won't stand by these if pressed:

1. Johnny Manziel
2. Dak Prescott
3. Aaron Murray
4. AJ McCarron
5. Nick Fitzgerald
6. Chad Kelly
7. Brandon Allen
8. James Franklin
9. Connor Shaw
10. Jalen Hurts

Good list. I'd put Dak at the top and Fitz a bit lower at this point. When he beats Alabama, he'll be challenging for the top spot.
10-30-2017, 08:38 AM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intramural All-American

Bulldawg28 is the one who asked for games Dak would have won that Fitz didn't. And the argument is that Fitz is better now than Dak was when he left. What Dak did his sophomore year is unmeaningful in this situation. Y'all still have not addressed the fact that Dak put up 1000 more total yards than Fitz will.

It's also funny that y'all act as if Dak was throwing to All-NFL players. None of Dak's WRs even got drafted, so a logical person would assume that Dak had a very large part in making them as good as they were.

I am lost then. My bad...

Apparently you are lost too bc I have not said anything about dak?s wr advantage. Do you feel WRs have been equal for both?
10-30-2017, 08:43 AM
bulldawg28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intramural All-American

Bulldawg28 is the one who asked for games Dak would have won that Fitz didn't. And the argument is that Fitz is better now than Dak was when he left. What Dak did his sophomore year is unmeaningful in this situation. Y'all still have not addressed the fact that Dak put up 1000 more total yards than Fitz will.

It's also funny that y'all act as if Dak was throwing to All-NFL players. None of Dak's WRs even got drafted, so a logical person would assume that Dak had a very large part in making them as good as they were.

You still haven't provided a game. Dak had 2 WR's and a RB with an NFL opportunity with Fred Brown and Fred Ross. Brown is still in the league. He also had an NFL center. I'm sure I'm leaving out someone. That's 4 NFL caliber players not including Bear. Fitz is/ has done more with less talent.
10-30-2017, 08:50 AM
Dawg-gone-dawgs

nope but he'll get another year to prove me wrong.
10-30-2017, 09:15 AM
Cooterpoot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apoplectic

If fitz had dak's receivers it would be a no-doubter. Fitz has had to thread a lot of needles just to get the yards he has now. Btw - I like that we're forcing more of the young receivers on the field now and targeting them.

Fitz can't even hit wideass open WRs deep. He misses them every single game. While I agree, his receivers aren't as good. He's not close to the passer that Dak was.
10-30-2017, 09:22 AM
drunkernhelldawg

Dak is number one. But I do think that this team may accomplish more than any of Dak's teams. Putting Dak at number two is like figuring out which coaches are better than Vince Lombardi. You gotta be kidding . . .

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page