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Originally Posted by msstate7

Didn't ULL have 1 level 1 infraction? If so, they self-imposed 11 scholarship losses, vacated wins, and Saunders got an 8-year show cause over 1. Is that right?

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You are correct, sir...said in my best Ed McMahon voice.

I stand corrected.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Didn't ULL have 1 level 1 infraction? If so, they self-imposed 11 scholarship losses, vacated wins, and Saunders got an 8-year show cause over 1. Is that right?

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No. All 4 of their allegations were level I. First one for fixing ACT scores, second one for recruiting inducements and 3 and 4 involved Saunders lying to the NCAA and denying a third interview. All 4 were seen as level I violations. Also, I'm almost 99% positive that they didn't include any scholarship reductions in their self imposed sanctions, those were levied by the COI.

I remember hearing a sports attorney on the radio a couple of weeks ago saying om is really trying hard to get most of those Level Ones down to Level Twos b/c otherwise it's going to be devastating to the entire athletic department top to bottom.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

I remember hearing a sports attorney on the radio a couple of weeks ago saying om is really trying hard to get most of those Level Ones down to Level Twos b/c otherwise it's going to be devastating to the entire athletic department top to bottom.

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What are the level 1s and do they have a leg to stand on trying to reduce?

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Originally Posted by msstate7

What are the level 1s and do they have a leg to stand on trying to reduce?

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There are 8 level 1's. All 4 of the ACT allegations will no doubt remain level I. Allegation #8 involving Walter Hughes, and 4 coaches will no doubt remain level I. The other 3 involve tunsil and over $10,000 worth of inducements, all three of the tunsil allegations will no doubt remain level I, especially when considering a failure to monitor was slapped in between them.

I could see the COI slapping on Lack of Institutional Control before downgrading any of the level I allegations to level II

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Originally Posted by msstate7

What are the level 1s and do they have a leg to stand on trying to reduce?

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I remember he said om might get two or three reduced but certainly not all eight level ones. His opinion was that om had some pretty serious violations in most of those level ones b/c the NCAA rewrote the guidelines a few years ago to make sure some really innocent stuff (like getting tires paid for but repaying the debt the same day) was knocked down to level two and three.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

I remember he said om might get two or three reduced but certainly not all eight level ones. His opinion was that om had some pretty serious violations in most of those level ones b/c the NCAA rewrote the guidelines a few years ago to make sure some really innocent stuff (like getting tires paid for but repaying the debt the same day) was knocked down to level two and three.

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I see what you did there.

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Originally Posted by Reason2succeed

You're right. But you have to give me credit that they had a couple of catfish. One was name Anal Ease.

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Yeah I certainly wasn't discounting the catfish part. Just the loaves of bread. I thoroughly enjoyed the catfish investigation & watching it unfold. Quite the entertainment.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Either way I think he is screwed because he will either continue to do well but probably get a show cause or he will lose and get run over by the Rebel bus. If he somehow makes it through unscathed I think he basically becomes the NCAA's next Jackie Sherrill as public enemy number one and the NCAA will just stay around until they nail him. After all of this is said and done I don't think it would take much for that to happen because of the repeat violator rules in place.

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If Freeze only gets a suspension, he stays at OM no matter how long it is. If he gets a show cause, I think he will definitely get hired after the show cause is over. Maybe not P5 school, but a school like UL-Monroe would take him. Bruce Pearl had a show cause and he's now at Auburn

Freeze is still young and probably seen as an offensive guru. He'd be hired as an OC if not as a HC. If he is hit with a show cause his narrative will be that he needs to take responsibility for others' mistakes. State fans justified that Sherrill was never personally hit with any violations, and Freeze's next school will say them same (even if it is not true for Freeze).

Like you said, it's also likely that he would be watched closely by the NCAA like Sherrill was. They would be waiting for him to trip up, especially if he does turn up at a P5 school.

I think this is something like the sliding narrative we saw last summer with Tunsil - "Nothing to see here" >>>>> "Might be suspended a game, two at most">>>> "Definitely a suspension, but couldn't be more than 3-4 games." >>>>> "Six games just seems really unfair for talking to agents and forgetting to take a rental car back." >>>>

Ole Danny Hugh is about to get his. I would say at this point their hearing has not been delayed (or they would crow about it), and they all know that they could be looking at show causes and suspensions coming down as the season starts. As we get closer to August, you will see the narrative shift again to "I'm sure Dave Wommack can hold it together for a couple of weeks, its all designed to keep FSU and Bama on top. Sucks for our kids that they are ruining a great team by taking away our Fearless Leader. We just need to pray for them."

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

I think this is something like the sliding narrative we saw last summer with Tunsil - "Nothing to see here" >>>>> "Might be suspended a game, two at most">>>> "Definitely a suspension, but couldn't be more than 3-4 games." >>>>> "Six games just seems really unfair for talking to agents and forgetting to take a rental car back." >>>>

Ole Danny Hugh is about to get his. I would say at this point their hearing has not been delayed (or they would crow about it), and they all know that they could be looking at show causes and suspensions coming down as the season starts. As we get closer to August, you will see the narrative shift again to "I'm sure Dave Wommack can hold it together for a couple of weeks, its all designed to keep FSU and Bama on top. Sucks for our kids that they are ruining a great team by taking away our Fearless Leader. We just need to pray for them."

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Yep, if the Hammer comes down in late August/early September it will be a grand conspiracy to keep om from winning the SEC and playing for a NC. They'll hang a banner anyway though.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

Yep, if the Hammer comes down in late August/early September it will be a grand conspiracy to keep om from winning the SEC and playing for a NC. They'll hang a banner anyway though.

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Hanging a banner for the natty they surely would have won if the whole rest of the college football world wasn't jealous and out to get them. It's really not hard to imagine them doing that.

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Originally Posted by DeviousDawg

When you really look into the NOA and compare it to previous NCAA investigations, Ole Miss's self imposed sanctions are a joke. The actual sanctions should atleast double the self imposed sanctions.

When looking through the NOA, it really breaks into 4 parts, the Tunsil stuff (allegations 1-4), the Kiffin stuff (alegations 5-7), the Walter Hughes stuff (allegation 8) and the ACT stuff (allegations 10-13). Allegation 9 was a BS level III violation involving recruiting videos. The fairest way to estimate OM's sanctions would be to treat each of the 4 parts as separate investigations and add the results from each.

Part 1: Tunsil

We can compare Tunsil's allegations to our own with Redmond. We gave Redmond a $2500 discount on a vehicle. We got 4 schollies over 2 years and 2 year probation, Mirando recieved a 1 year show cause. It should also be considered that we self reported all of this and cooperately fully with the NCAA who accepted our self imposed sanctions

Ole Miss is accused of giving Tunsil $7,495 worth of free car loans in allegation #1. Allegation #2 is really just an extension of #1, it says that after Tunsil was caught using free cars, he did it again, and Ole Miss failed to monitor whether he was continuing to do it. This isn't good for them because while #2 is only a level II violation, it will most certainly make #1 become an aggravated Level I violation. Allegation #3 is a booster giving Miller $800. #4 involves free lodging and stuff for tunsils family worth $2,253. So that's a total of $10,548 worth of inducements to Tunsil and fam as well as a failure to monitor.

When compared to our 4 schollies and 2 years of probation, OM's allegations 1-4 should be worth atleast double but probably triple what we got for Redmonds stuff.

Conservative guess for allegations 1-4:

8-12 scholarships
3 years probation
1 year bowl ban


Part 2: Kiffin

These allegations aren't too serious. There were 2 level III allegations, one for talking to a recruit during spring evaluation period, one for letting a recruit stay at his house. There was also one level II allegation which involved Kiffin setting up lodging, transportation and meals for family friends of a recruit, the monitary total of the inducements was worth $1027.

Conservative guess for allegation 5-7:

1-2 scholarships
possible 1 year show cause for Kiffin but most likely a suspension of some sort.


Part 3: Walter Hughes

This one could go so many different ways. There are 16 sub violations in the Level I allegation #8. All involve Walter Hughes and recruiting inducements. Three assistant coaches (Harris, Kiffin, and Matt Luke) and Hugh Freeze are listed in this allegation. All are said to have been contacted by Hughes while knowingly committing NCAA recruiting violations. So throw ignorance on OM's part of the window for this violation, which is never good.

The total monitary value for allegation #8 was $2,250. It involved 4 current coaches, 3 recruits and one booster. If we got 4 scholarships for $2,500 worth of inducements to Redmond, involving 1 coach, 1 recruit and 1 booster with exemplary cooperation on our part, then you would have to put the lowest amount of scholarships docked for this allegation at 4.

Conservative guess for allegation 8:

4-8 scholarships
1-2 years probation
2 year show cause for Maurice Harris


Part 4: ACT scandal

Let's compare this to ULL's case, they are actually very similar. ULL had 4 level I violations, so did OM. The first one for each schools was about fixing ACT scores. ULL's involved one coach and 6 recruits. OM's involved 3 coaches and 3 recruits, one of which is still on staff in Derrick Nix, who put the recruits families in contact with Saunders and the Crager(sp?) lady to recieve free lodging, transportation and meals, similiar to Mirando's case. The second allegations for both schools involved improper inducements to recruits. ULL's was worth $6,500 while OM's was worth $1650. The last 2 allegations for both schools involved coaches lying to the NCAA during investigations, just Saunders for ULL; Saunders and Vaughn for OM.

The NCAA stated that ULL recieved the lowest possible penalties for their violations(11 scholarships over 3 years and 2 years of probation) because the University was unaware of Saunders actions and acted swiftly to fire him and self report as well as cooperate fully with the NCAA. Well, Ole Miss can't really say the same because Nix is STILL ON STAFF. There's a reason Ole Miss is fighting Nix's involvement, but they aren't going to win it. All of this leads me to believe that, if ULL recieved the lowest possible penalties that OM would atleast have to get 11 schollies for the ACT allegations.

Conservative guess for allegations 10-13:

11-14 scholarships
1-2 year show cause for Nix
8 year show cause for Vaughn
1 year bowl ban

Adding all 4 parts together for a final estimate:

24-36 scholarships
4 years of probation
2 year bowl ban
Show Causes for: Nix and Harris
Suspensions for: Kiffin, Freeze, and Matt Luke

Seems harsh, but when you really break it down into it's components I think that is a well educated and fair estimate.

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This is great. Well thought-out, reasoned with explanations, and lacking any obvious bias. Which means that it will fly over the head of any OM fans reading it. I just wish I could CC this to some folks...

Remember, we are not including the rest of the ongoing investigation. The NCAA was still interviewing people 1 to 1 1/2 weeks ago. It's still a long ways from being over and from my understanding the pile keeps growing. So who really knows where this corruption and cheating will stop or whether the NCAA decides to just drop the hammer and quit. They are in a world of hurt and don't believe anything different.

Has anyone even bothered to speculate on the "majority" of the violations- the WBB and track ones? The football ones are significant enough on their own, but if there's any strength to the others, then I think the athletic department itself is in the crosshairs.

Wasn't it last year or the year before Freeze argued for and received a "significant" pay raise for all his assistants at TCUN? It raised my interest as to why he did that. At first it was spun by TCUN as the righteous Freeze doing the right/Godly thing for his assistants that had worked so hard for him. And this was done before we the general public knew anything for sure about depth of cheating that was going on by Freeze, his assistants and the Network.

Couldn't it now be construed as a form extortion by Freeze from TCUN to pay-o-la/bribe the assistants to keep their mouths shut for the upcoming & ongoing NCAA investigation? Also to keep assistant coaches at the school and keep them from going else where, landing a cushy job with another school and then spilling the info to the NCAA about TCUN's cheating? I've found it very strange for the most part that Freeze's assistants have pretty much stayed intact!

Just a thought! What Ya'll say?

I wish the NEW Coach34 apparent would step up with tales and photos of the NEW AND IMPROVED Zena Reb wannabes.......You know there has got to be some serious NCAA behind (and other) kissing going on as well other interesting circus acts.

For 2016 there were 47 coaching changes (44 assistants) in the SEC. Only one school had no changes. Seems normal. No red flags here. Carry on. Then again om is in Oxford if you haven't heard.