And just like that- we are tied for 7th in the SEC at the halfway point

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Originally Posted by HSVDawg

As a reality check to the "fire cohenz" crowd, I'd just like to give a friendly reminder that we finished dead ****ing last in the SEC last year. We won 8 damn SEC games, a total that we have already matched this year. Quite frankly, this team had light years to go from last year to even get to be a respectable regional 3 seed this year, and here we are with 5 weeks to go talking about what we need to do to host. I'm as disappointed as the next guy about this past weekend, and would hate it if we eventually can't host in part because of it, but lets keep things in perspective. Some fans in their minds just set up Cohen to fail this year with their expectations. Going from last place in the SEC to a national seed or regional host over one season pretty much never happens, and can't be reasonably expected from any coach.

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I agree to an extent....but we never should have been as shitatastic as we were last year. So expecting far better than last year should have been the expectation. That being said, we have overachieved this season, so your point still stands.

I just don't want our fans to downplay our potential too much. We are a proud baseball school, and can win big here, make no mistake. Last year should not happen very often at MSU. Last year was not something Cohen inherited...he built that shit show, so he doesn't get a pass or to compare future teams to last year when that was his team that underperformed.

Again, not disagreeing, just pointing that out.

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully

So with your attitude, why do we even build the new stadium?

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Because it's something we CAN do, to give ourselves an advantage. When engie said it was 4th or 5th in the west, that was a stretch. I think we are probably 2nd in the west behind LSU. The ones with the advantages are Vanderbilt, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee and LSU.

This isn't hard. Your viewpoint is as wrong as an opinion can be. I told you earlier that it's best if you just went ahead and exited this thread. You can't win.

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Originally Posted by engie

No one is making excuses. We are trying to give a reality check. Something our fanbase seems to have lost a long time ago in baseball. The fact that we are where we are is very telling to just how good of job our coaching staff has done this year. Yet they are presented as blind squirrels occasionally finding a nut. The assumption that we can go out and cherrypick the next greatest coach in college baseball if we were to fire the ones we have with what they have accomplished seems ridiculous. It's not an easy place to win. Part of what Polk got right in his rant. The cards aren't stacked in our favor. I'd imagine if a neutral party were to rank the SEC baseball jobs -- we would be 4th or 5th in the west right now. That's just our own division. It's a nationally elite fanbase but not a nationally elite job.

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You make a few good points, but you are way too woe is us. Cohen isn't doing anything (other than the fluke CWS run) that every MSU coach before him couldn't do. If it's so hard to win at MSU, we must be damn good at picking coaches bc Polk, Mcmahon, Polk II, & Cohen have all won at MSU.

So yes, we have some disadvantages, but let's not poor mouth this thing to an exaggerated level either.

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

Because it's something we CAN do, to give ourselves an advantage. When engie said it was 4th or 5th in the west, that was a stretch. I think we are probably 2nd in the west behind LSU. The ones with the advantages are Vanderbilt, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee and LSU.

This isn't hard. Your viewpoint is as wrong as an opinion can be. I told you earlier that it's best if you just went ahead and exited this thread. You can't win.

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I agree with this

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

Because it's something we CAN do, to give ourselves an advantage. When engie said it was 4th or 5th in the west, that was a stretch. I think we are probably 2nd in the west behind LSU. The ones with the advantages are Vanderbilt, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee and LSU.

This isn't hard. Your viewpoint is as wrong as an opinion can be. I told you earlier that it's best if you just went ahead and exited this thread. You can't win.

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So expecting a national championship or a championship program at MSU in baseball is as wrong as wrong can be. Engie is acting like Cohen is the best possible coach we could get which I think is false. But if you guys are good with basically getting the same results our basketball program did under Stansbury then by all means let's keep the status quo.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

You make a few good points, but you are way too woe is us. Cohen isn't doing anything (other than the fluke CWS run) that every MSU coach before him couldn't do. If it's so hard to win at MSU, we must be damn good at picking coaches bc Polk, Mcmahon, Polk II, & Cohen have all won at MSU.

So yes, we have some disadvantages, but let's not poor mouth this thing to an exaggerated level either.

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I will say its a tougher chore for Cohen to win now in the SEC than it was for Polk or McMahon. Back in Polk I and McMahon you didn't have the scholarship situation so out of whack from state to state like you have now. I mean just about every SEC state other than MS, AL and Ark now has a lottery that provides in state kid scholarships that don't count against the 11.7. Also, we had a much bigger "tradition" advantage and facilities advantage back in the 80s and 90s because we were one of the few that cared about baseball. I'm not sure Polk could have even survived in today's cutthroat environment of college baseball the way he recruited and with all the schools putting money into the sport.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

You make a few good points, but you are way too woe is us. Cohen isn't doing anything (other than the fluke CWS run) that every MSU coach before him couldn't do. If it's so hard to win at MSU, we must be damn good at picking coaches bc Polk, Mcmahon, Polk II, & Cohen have all won at MSU.

So yes, we have some disadvantages, but let's not poor mouth this thing to an exaggerated level either.

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Please explain how it was a fluke CWS run. We won like 45 games going into the NCAA tourney. We had 20 or 21 SEC wins including the SEC tournament. We were ranked in the top 15 virtually all season, hosted a regional, and were 2 or 3 regular season wins away from being a national seed. No MSU coach since Polk in the late 80's / early 90's had a season that successful from start to finish, and that was before the NCAA tournament even began. If that CWS run was a fluke, then the whole season was a fluke.

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

Because it's something we CAN do, to give ourselves an advantage. When engie said it was 4th or 5th in the west, that was a stretch. I think we are probably 2nd in the west behind LSU. The ones with the advantages are Vanderbilt, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee and LSU.

This isn't hard. Your viewpoint is as wrong as an opinion can be. I told you earlier that it's best if you just went ahead and exited this thread. You can't win.

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We are not the second most desirable job for a coach in the SECWest. Not even close.

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

I will say its a tougher chore for Cohen to win now in the SEC than it was for Polk or McMahon. Back in Polk I and McMahon you didn't have the scholarship situation so out of whack from state to state like you have now. I mean just about every SEC state other than MS, AL and Ark now has a lottery that provides in state kid scholarships that don't count against the 11.7. Also, we had a much bigger "tradition" advantage and facilities advantage back in the 80s and 90s because we were one of the few that cared about baseball. I'm not sure Polk could have even survived in today's cutthroat environment of college baseball the way he recruited and with all the schools putting money into the sport.

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I agree.

Bottom line, Cohen recruits great and coaches well enough to keep us competitive and in Regionals most years....but he isn't good enough of an in-game coach to make us elite considering the built in disadvantages we have to overcome. He's still going to recruit at a high enough level to where we will have years of making Super's and even a CWS from time to time, so I can gladly live with that. His meddling will probably keep us from ever getting back to a Final or winning it though....but that takes luck too, so....

We just have to keep expectations in check and keep supporting.

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Originally Posted by HSVDawg

Please explain how it was a fluke CWS run. We won like 45 games going into the NCAA tourney. We had 20 or 21 SEC wins including the SEC tournament. We were ranked in the top 15 virtually all season, hosted a regional, and were 2 or 3 regular season wins away from being a national seed. No MSU coach since Polk in the late 80's / early 90's had a season that successful from start to finish, and that was before the NCAA tournament even began. If that CWS run was a fluke, then the whole season was a fluke.

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"Fluke" may be a poor choice. I agree. But it was about getting hot at the right time....we were a Cinderella team in the CWS. We weren't expected to make it near as far as we did is what I meant.

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Originally Posted by engie

We are not the second most desirable job for a coach in the SECWest. Not even close.

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Who is second?

It goes LSU 1 in the west, then who Engie? Arkansas? We have a better baseball program then they do. A&M? We have a better program then they do. Heck, the coach they have now has only been to the CWS once in 11 years. Who else?

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

You make a few good points, but you are way too woe is us. Cohen isn't doing anything (other than the fluke CWS run) that every MSU coach before him couldn't do. If it's so hard to win at MSU, we must be damn good at picking coaches bc Polk, Mcmahon, Polk II, & Cohen have all won at MSU.

So yes, we have some disadvantages, but let's not poor mouth this thing to an exaggerated level either.

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What exactly did I exaggerate?

Cohen is FAR MORE disadvantaged than any of those that came before him since at least the Gregory days before my lifetime.

Polk -- first full-time paid head baseball coach in the SEC. Big advantage. Got DNF built. Huge advantage. Didn't initially face the rules that now exist.
McMahon -- got DNF expanded. Was the first skyboxes in the country for college baseball. Was still the best stadium in the country at that point till the 2nd or 3rd Baum expansion in 2001-2003 or thereabouts.
Polk 2 -- Inherited a ton of talent which he wasted. Still inherited a competitive advantage facilities wise which he wasted in allowing the OM program to be built. Got the first dedicated IPF in college baseball history.
Cohen -- Inherited a total shit show on the field. Inherited the 2nd best stadium in north Mississippi. Inherited a fanbase where all of the old money wanted him fired before he ever showed up, many of which still do to this day. Inherited a 30 year old pile of bricks that was at best the 4th or 5th best stadium in the west the day he arrived and is unquestionably either 6th or 7th best in it's own division depending on how "best" is defined now.

Given the different SEC he's faced compared to all of those that came before him, it's amazing that he's won as much as he has to this point. We won't know how good he can be until we catch up in the facilities race(which is absolutely a huge portion of the deal among elite level recruits these days -- per 2 former SEC coaches).

But by all means -- our fanbase is good at sticking their head in the sand about what is really going on all around them -- show up for SBW -- and decide we are an imminent national power that should be so much better than the top 10 team we currently are. Nothing I can do to stop it -- nor is there anything going to prevent me from calling it ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by engie

What exactly did I exaggerate?

Cohen is FAR MORE disadvantaged than any of those that came before him since at least the Gregory days before my lifetime.

Polk -- first full-time paid head baseball coach in the SEC. Big advantage. Got DNF built. Huge advantage. Didn't initially face the rules that now exist.
McMahon -- got DNF expanded. Was the first skyboxes in the country for college baseball. Was still the best stadium in the country at that point till the 2nd or 3rd Baum expansion in 2001-2003 or thereabouts.
Polk 2 -- Inherited a ton of talent which he wasted. Still inherited a competitive advantage facilities wise which he wasted in allowing the OM program to be built. Got the first dedicated IPF in college baseball history.
Cohen -- Inherited a total shit show on the field. Inherited the 2nd best stadium in north Mississippi. Inherited a fanbase where all of the old money wanted him fired before he ever showed up, many of which still do to this day. Inherited a 30 year old pile of bricks that was at best the 4th or 5th best stadium in the west the day he arrived and is unquestionably either 6th or 7th best in it's own division depending on how "best" is defined now.

Given the different SEC he's faced compared to all of those that came before him, it's amazing that he's won as much as he has to this point. We won't know how good he can be until we catch up in the facilities race(which is absolutely a huge portion of the deal among elite level recruits these days -- per 2 former SEC coaches).

But by all means -- our fanbase is good at sticking their head in the sand about what is really going on all around them -- show up for SBW -- and decide we are an imminent national power that should be so much better than the top 10 team we currently are. Nothing I can do to stop it -- nor is there anything going to prevent me from calling it ridiculous.

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What a drama queen.

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully

It goes LSU 1 in the west, then who Engie? Arkansas? We have a better baseball program then they do.

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No we don't.

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A&M? We have a better program then they do.

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No we don't.

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Heck, the coach they have now has only been to the CWS once in 11 years. Who else?

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How many times has State been in the past 17 or so?

I guess you will agree that Ole Miss has a superior football program to us -- for the same reasons of your current argument?

A $55 million state of the art stadium to an already great baseball school power = a top five program. Yet the results will stay the same if we keep Cohen. Make the tournament regularly, host occasionally and make the CWS maybe once in 5-6 years. No conference championships. Maybe a tournament championship every once in a while. If you are okay with those results, by all means let's keep Cohen. Btw Goat, I was using sarcasm after Engie basically stated our baseball program sucks and Cohen is the best coach we can get for poor ol State.

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Originally Posted by engie

No we don't.


No we don't.


How many times has State been in the past 17 or so?

I guess you will agree that Ole Miss has a superior football program to us -- for the same reasons of your current argument?

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LOL, that's classic right there.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

What a drama queen.

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Nice refute. But maybe I'll be wrong about something baseball-related this year at some point. I mean, it's a long season, and I can only bat 1.000 for so long before I miss on something. I know you'll be sure to let me know when that time comes.

But you already think you know more baseball than John Cohen, so...

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully

A $55 million state of the art stadium to an already great baseball school power = a top five program. Yet the results will stay the same if we keep Cohen. Make the tournament regularly, host occasionally and make the CWS maybe once in 5-6 years. No conference championships. Maybe a tournament championship every once in a while. If you are okay with those results, by all means let's keep Cohen. Btw Goat, I was using sarcasm after Engie basically stated our baseball program sucks and Cohen is the best coach we can get for poor ol State.

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Fahr Cohenz!?!? Good thing he has a $55 million picture on the wall without an announced ground breaking to help him recruit his 11.7 though!1!

You are a damn moron without a lick of perspective on SEC/college baseball. But I already knew that when you took the initial position.

What the morons that don't understand the game over at D1Baseball have to say about it. http://www.d1baseball.com/analysis/t...y-the-numbers/

The same Arkansas team that will lay an egg and finish close to last in the west this year? Also, get back to me on A&M when their entire starting lineup is gone next year. Wouldn't surprise me if they get tripped up before they can even make the CWS.