Explain to me how Ray is a "lazy recruiter"?

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Originally Posted by smootness

No, what I'm saying is that even if Ray falls on his face, making a change at HC was still the right move. With Stans, we know what the ceiling was - being pretty good and missing the NCAA Tournament or perhaps barely sneaking in. If that is good enough for you as the ceiling of the program, then fine. That's not good enough for the large majority of the fanbase.

Whether Ray was the right hire is a completely different discussion. But again, even if Ray falls on his face, the decision to remove Stans was the right one because it gave us a chance to improve our ceiling. Even if it doesn't work out in the immediate future, we will still have that chance. As long as Stans stayed, that ceiling wasn't going to budge.

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I see what you're saying. I just haven't bought into the idea that "we knew what our ceiling was" with Stans. He took us right to the edge of the mountaintop on multiple occasions. You've got to be there to have a chance. And I haven't totally given up on Ray. I do think this situation was badly botched by our athletic department and I wonder why all the blame is going to Ray and not to the people in the office that created the situation. I'm not an insider, but it looks like the move was made so that it could be quickly disposed of with a lower priority going to the actual result of the action.

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Originally Posted by thf24

Did you just ignore what the rest of the country was saying about us between 2010 and 2012? The "bullshit" you speak of wasn't just coming from our more critical fans, it was coming from national news. ESPN referred to us as specifically a "dumpster fire" and Sporting News called us "the NCAA’s most dysfunctional program." I don't care how many games we were winning at the time. That kind of outside perception was unacceptable and a true embarrassment, and had it been allowed to continue it would have led us to exactly where we are now. The only difference would have been that we'd still have that perception, where as now we're clean from the outside view and have a chance to really improve next year now that the ship has had time to right.

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I'm sorry, but I laughed out loud that our basketball program's "reputation" has improved since we tossed Stansbury out. I just forget that the players and coaches in all the other programs in the world always exhibit exemplary behavior, and when they don't, they are so embarrassed. I just forget that. Must be the heat of the Eternal Dumpster Fire getting me faint. So thankful that so many are dedicated to keeping that fire stoked so that we will never make the mistake of forgetting this terrible, terrble, terribel, just awful, omygod, ohthoseboys, tchtch, EMBARRASSMENT. We are so damn perfect, but our thoughts and prayers are with those less fortunate, those who remain misguided. Those teams with all their bad boys.

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Originally Posted by drunkernhelldawg

I'm sorry, but I laughed out loud that our basketball program's "reputation" has improved since we tossed Stansbury out. I just forget that the players and coaches in all the other programs in the world always exhibit exemplary behavior, and when they don't, they are so embarrassed. I just forget that. Must be the heat of the Eternal Dumpster Fire getting me faint. So thankful that so many are dedicated to keeping that fire stoked so that we will never make the mistake of forgetting this terrible, terrble, terribel, just awful, omygod, ohthoseboys, tchtch, EMBARRASSMENT. We are so damn perfect, but our thoughts and prayers are with those less fortunate, those who remain misguided. Those teams with all their bad boys.

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Yeah you're right, plenty of teams get called "the NCAA’s most dysfunctional program" by national news sources. All the time. Yeah, we've been getting called that all year, along with 20 other teams. Yep. Happens all the time.

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Originally Posted by thf24

Yeah you're right, plenty of teams get called "the NCAA’s most dysfunctional program" by national news sources. All the time. Yeah, we've been getting called that all year, along with 20 other teams. Yep. Happens all the time.

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So just to be clear, you're saying that the reputation of our basketball program has improved since Stans was fired? I will go straight-face and say I disagree. I can't think of a lower point than now for the reputation of our program. There's no greater discredit than death. Are we the first program in history to give itself the death penalty?

But I guess there's a point on the other side: at least Uncle Frank's done with molesting, now that we've got him buried.

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Originally Posted by drunkernhelldawg

So just to be clear, you're saying that the reputation of our basketball program has improved since Stans was fired? I will go straight-face and say I disagree. I can't think of a lower point than now for the reputation of our program. There's no greater discredit than death. Are we the first program in history to give itself the death penalty?

But I guess there's a point on the other side: at least Uncle Frank's done with molesting, now that we've got him buried.

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I think we're talking about two different kinds of reputations here. The kind of reputation that goes with wins and losses, yeah, obviously terrible at present. No argument there. However, that kind only reflects badly on the team. I'm talking about the kind of reputation that goes with behavior and actions; the kind involving players fighting in public and badmouthing coaches, which I'll argue is more important because it reflects badly on the entire university. We are obviously in much better shape in that regard than we were two years ago. That's the last I'm going to say on the issue.