Question for the Rick Ray fans

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Originally Posted by SouthMsDawg

Also would like to add that Rick Ray's offense which some of you may love is about as boring of an offense as there is in the SEC. We rarely score in our half court motion offense mainly due to lack of shooters. Most of our points come in transition off of steals. When teams don't turn it over (Georgia in the 2nd half) we struggle.

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Damn it Bundy.

Is the offense "boring" or can we just not shoot? Those are two entirely different things.

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Originally Posted by SouthMsDawg

Also would like to add that Rick Ray's offense which some of you may love is about as boring of an offense as there is in the SEC. We rarely score in our half court motion offense mainly due to lack of shooters. Most of our points come in transition off of steals. When teams don't turn it over (Georgia in the 2nd half) we struggle.

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And let me add that it's not Ray's offense that is the problem- it's our ability to make shots.
With Stands people couldnt stand the fact that we did so much standing around watching someone dribble to create a shot.

Big difference

Nobody is suggesting that our players dont need to get better

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Originally Posted by Coach34

We have moved on- it's time for the Stands-Lovers to do the same. But you wont, and we'll keep having this same argument like we did about Cohen until he shut everybody the **** up like many of us said he would. Hopefully Ray does the same

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At which point, everyone would swear they were on the bandwagon and knew he would get it done all along... lest you go archive digging to see what was actually being said at the time...

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Originally Posted by RougeDawg

Are they not getting much participation in these tryouts? When I was in school in the Early/Mid 2000's there were some solid players that play in the Sanderson, and some good shooters. I would suspect nothing has changed in that category. Are these guys just not interested in playing or trying out? Their school is obviously already paid for so something has to be preventing them from wanting to play.

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Ray has tryouts at 6am. He wants to see what walk-ons are willing to do what it takes to be part of the program (like making the 6am workouts that players have to do these days), and not waste his time with ones that may initially think they want to do it- then quit. Needless to say- he has had very few tryout.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

See- this is the core of the problem. You guys are sooooo loyal, insane, touchy, or whatever the descriptive word is that comedy is lost about anything Stansbury. Stains is insulting, as are some others. Stands is just a play on his nickname

Stands is a funny nickname, Nothing more, nothing less. Many of us have talked for years about how there was too much "standing around" in our "motion" offense. And there was. Changing Stans to Stands couldnt be any more of an appropriate name for him. It's not insulting- its just funny. And fitting.

Stands was a solid coach at State for most of his tenure.

Good side- he won an SEC title, a couple of SEC Tourneys, kept a consistent team for the most part, and got us in the Dance 6 times in 14 seasons.

Bad side- He almost never won a big game whether it was vs top 10 teams or in the NCAA Tourney, his SOS was almost always in the bottom 1/3 of the SEC, we only made 2 NCAA's his last 7 seasons and there were lots of discipline problems and drama at the end.

We have moved on- it's time for the Stands-Lovers to do the same. But you wont, and we'll keep having this same argument like we did about Cohen until he shut everybody the **** up like many of us said he would. Hopefully Ray does the same

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Thanks for the rational response - except for the somewhat childish "shut the **** up" statement.

Although, ironically you just contradicted 75% of your own reasoning with the above statement. So I guess I owe you a "Thank you".

I guess this means you've ended debate or conceded the point? Well done. Or, maybe "blah blah blah....

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Originally Posted by engie

And again, you TOTALLY whiff on the overriding point -- in attempt to get caught up in the small details -- from an ENTIRELY different point in time of the two compared tenures.

The fact of the matter is -- you took the exact same approach to Cohen that you are taking to Ray. You didn't learn a damn thing from this the last time.

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Talk about whiffing. I made some remarks about Cohen that look dumb in retrospect, although there were many, many folks unhappy with the direction of the program at the time. Not just me. Not by a long freaking shot.

Where you whif miserably, is claiming it's "the exact same approach...you are taking with Ray". I have not stated anything close to that Ray was the "biggest coaching bust in recent memory". I just haven't. I'm not that happy with Ray, but unlike you mischaracterized, I actually HAVE learned a lesson from the early Cohen tenure and going to reserve final judgement for a little while.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

See- this is the core of the problem. You guys are sooooo loyal, insane, touchy, or whatever the descriptive word is that comedy is lost about anything Stansbury. Stains is insulting, as are some others. Stands is just a play on his nickname

Stands is a funny nickname, Nothing more, nothing less. Many of us have talked for years about how there was too much "standing around" in our "motion" offense. And there was. Changing Stans to Stands couldnt be any more of an appropriate name for him. It's not insulting- its just funny. And fitting.

Stands was a solid coach at State for most of his tenure.

Good side- he won an SEC title, a couple of SEC Tourneys, kept a consistent team for the most part, and got us in the Dance 6 times in 14 seasons.

Bad side- He almost never won a big game whether it was vs top 10 teams or in the NCAA Tourney, his SOS was almost always in the bottom 1/3 of the SEC, we only made 2 NCAA's his last 7 seasons and there were lots of discipline problems and drama at the end.

We have moved on- it's time for the Stands-Lovers to do the same. But you wont, and we'll keep having this same argument like we did about Cohen until he shut everybody the **** up like many of us said he would. Hopefully Ray does the same

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What a bunch of horse shit. Coach, don't be a puss. You call Stansbury derrogatory names to piss off the people that don't hate him. Period. Don't shy away from it. Own it.

Stands and The Recruiter are not derogatory- just very fitting

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Originally Posted by MadDawg

Talk about whiffing. I made some remarks about Cohen that look dumb in retrospect, although there were many, many folks unhappy with the direction of the program at the time. Not just me. Not by a long freaking shot.

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That's been my point about withholding judgement on Ray the entire time -- until he's had a fair amount of time to get it going(year 3).

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Where you whif miserably, is claiming it's "the exact same approach...you are taking with Ray". I have not stated anything close to that Ray was the "biggest coaching bust in recent memory". I just haven't. I'm not that happy with Ray, but unlike you mischaracterized, I actually HAVE learned a lesson from the early Cohen tenure and going to reserve final judgement for a little while.

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I don't even know how you said this with a straight face. While you may not have actually made any "Fire Ray" posts, you have been one of, if not, the MOST outspoken in bitching about the current state our basketball program at every opportunity. It doesn't take the making of any ridiculous logical leaps to assume what you mean by it.

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Originally Posted by RougeDawg

You are a ****ing clown, who obviously hasn't stepped foot in the Sanderson. I've noticed a pattern of you commenting on multiple legitimate posts lately. Do you just like to talk shit to stir the pot? And if you'd refrained from responding you would have seen Coach respond with Ray already holding similar tryouts. I don't keep up with much basketball behind the scenes, but I do know there are better players in the Sanderson than a handful of players currently on our roster.

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No, I haven't set foot in the Sanderson. But I did set foot in the Ramsey center plenty of times at UGA, and sure, there are a bunch of guys who seem like good basketball players. And any SEC scholarship basketball player will come in and wipe the floor with them.

I was at UGA at a time when they were arguably the worst SEC basketball team of all-time, almost certainly even worse than our team is currently. Their best player, by a mile, was Sundiata Gaines. And they had a few players who would play at Ramsey from time to time; and every single time, they made a mockery of the rest of the guys in there.

If the players in the Sanderson were any good relative to scholarship college athletes, they would be playing somewhere on scholarship...at least NAIA, D2. Your claim that multiple kids from the freaking Sanderson could show up and be better than several players on our roster is insane.

I try to be rational and thoughtful. I try to avoid name-calling or emotional posts. Yes, I have opinions, sometimes strong ones, and I don't mind sharing them. That's what boards like these are for. But I try not to ever just throw crap against the wall or be a dick for the sake of being a dick. I just argue my side strongly.

But that claim is absurd.

I'm sure he holds tryouts...every coach at every program does. At UGA, they held open tryouts and a couple of kids made the team, one from my dorm. The kid looked like a ridiculous stud at Ramsey. You know how much he played? About 5 minutes that year, when they were getting blown out in a couple of games. Why? Because despite the horrendous makeup of the UGA roster, the kid was nowhere as good as the guys already playing.

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Originally Posted by engie

That's been my point about withholding judgement on Ray the entire time -- until he's had a fair amount of time to get it going(year 3).


I don't even know how you said this with a straight face. While you may not have actually made any "Fire Ray" posts, you have been one of, if not, the MOST outspoken in bitching about the current state our basketball program at every opportunity. It doesn't take the making of any ridiculous logical leaps to assume what you mean by it.

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See. this is the problem when you think you know everything. You don't need any actual statements from me to determine what I think. You just know, because by God, you are engie.

You know, or at least the all-knowing-engie SHOULD know, is that my posts center mostly around when people feel the need to disparage the previous regime in order to make themselves feel better about the current one. It's not being honest. It's not accurate. It's lazy. And I like to call people out on it.

Now taking this position routinely puts me in your cross-hairs. Why? I'm not really sure except for the fact that you routinely use disparaging remarks against the old regime to prop up the new one, because, frankly, there isn't any real data to support it.

Same tired old arguments, how many times has "fighting in the stands" been brought up in the past year. Two guys fighting is not that unusual, just getting caught on tv was extremely unlucky for our school, but to have that as Rick Stansbury's legacy is criminal.

Rick has a choice and took retirement. But we would have all been better off if he had stayed one more year, the tumor was gone, he would have retained a couple of more recruits and probably kept Hood, Then if the ship was not righted, we would have been in a much better position to hire a coach with more experience,.

It might not matter to you young guys , but we (and in fairness to him and to ourselves we have to)give Ray two more years and the program has not progressed, are we faced with another four years of building the program then another and another and so on.

Happy? How could anybody be with this situation, other than the ones that have a Rick Stansbury vendetta. And Coach34 your cute name for him may be funny to you as you keep insisting, but I assure you its not to a great majority.

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Originally Posted by shannondawg

Same tired old arguments, how many times has "fighting in the stands" been brought up in the past year. Two guys fighting is not that unusual, just getting caught on tv was extremely unlucky for our school, but to have that as Rick Stansbury's legacy is criminal.

Rick has a choice and took retirement. But we would have all been better off if he had stayed one more year, the tumor was gone, he would have retained a couple of more recruits and probably kept Hood, Then if the ship was not righted, we would have been in a much better position to hire a coach with more experience,.

It might not matter to you young guys , but we (and in fairness to him and to ourselves we have to)give Ray two more years and the program has not progressed, are we faced with another four years of building the program then another and another and so on.

Happy? How could anybody be with this situation, other than the ones that have a Rick Stansbury vendetta. And Coach34 your cute name for him may be funny to you as you keep insisting, but I assure you its not to a great majority.

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And same ol tired bullshit from you guys.

A) Stands had a choice- retire or be fired. If you call that a choice- ok.

B) It's not just the fighting in the bleachers. It's also:

The Sporting News labeled us the "most dysfunctional program in America"
Gottlieb and Katz were laughing at us on ESPN about Stands
Jimmy Dykes on SEC telecasts routinely pointing out Sidney being lazy and walking up the floor during games
Players calling out the coaches on twitter
Players ignoring the coaches during time-outs
The program was ranked 2 of the last 3 seasons and neither team made the NCAA Tourney

And that's not his "legacy"- but that is why his tenure ended.

C) We would have been no better off had we let him coach another year. We still had a rampant drug problem and guys that didnt work hard.

D) If Ray doesnt work out- it wont be another 4 year rebuild- we wont be starting at Ground Zero like Stands left us. The next coach will be in much better position to get things going because he will take over a program based on effort and hard work.

E) There is no Rick Stansbury vendetta. That's comical. We just pointed out the problems with the program- which of course ended up being his undoing

F) I dont know a State fan that follows basketball that doesnt find "Stands" hilarious and fitting...

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Originally Posted by dawgs

i don't think ray took a big career chance. he wasn't anywhere near getting another major conference HC gig, he's being compensated well above his assistant coach salary, and if he can't turn us around and gets fired, he'll still be able to go back to being an assistant coach.

as for the 5 mcdonald's AA comment, we still wouldn't be landing many McD's AA, but our admin is hamstringing ray's recruiting by limiting his AAU contacts. it's just impossible to to recruit above avg major conference talent without getting in bed with AAU. it's dirty, but it's necessary.

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It's pretty much sink or swim when it come to HC jobs in the NCAA. Regardless of age, so yeah, he did take a big career chance.

So you know that is was be fired or retire? Prove it..

The media never takes an incident and makes the most of it?

You know that we would have been no better off, the coach that has the most wins in our history would have had better players and wouldn't have had a better team?

After this hire, what makes you think he would make a better one next time and even so, what makes you so sure that the program is going to be in better shape when Rick Ray leaves if in fact he does.? Rick Stansbury had a pretty good recruiting class coming in when he left, you sure Rick Ray will? All that hard work is paying off in spades now isn't it and all the genius X & O's, only thing about those X & O's , the ball don't necessarily go in the hole...

Listen you bullshit your friends and I'll do the same with mine, but don't try to tell me you don't have a vendetta against Rick Stansbury.

I think enough people on this board have told you they don't think your little pet name is funny to negate that statement, all your little message board disciples may think its funny, but don't take a poll you might be embarrassed..

I'd like to see that poll taken outside the Civic Center after the Butler loss.

Truer words have never been spoken. Of course, this is coach34's board so he can attract all his buddies but some of us are open minded and your posts on this shannondawg at least explore all sides. If indeed Katz and Gottlieb said we were the most dysfunctional program in America, I wonder if that was only during the Sidney saga. All the drug issues coach yells about are about the same Coach Ray has had, as well and countless other programs. Sidney being lazy, it was obvious but he was benched if you remember for an extended period and he simply wouldn't change. He was history no matter who was our coach when Stans left. All of this vendetta has been going on for a decade but it is pretty clear that coach Ray has certainly being judged a lot differently by coach and his cronies and I wonder why? I think we know why, some folks will never ever admit they re wrong about anything. We all know who they are. The fact remains, Ray will get one or two more years, but we are the worst basketball team I have seen at MSU during my lifetime and we can blame Stans all we want to, but there comes a time when the current coach has to be held accountable and I suspect a year or two from now we will still be trying to get back where we were even in Stans' below average years. Not winning many games in the big dance pales in comparision to being the laughing stock of the SEC and if we can't even compete in the weakest SEC in decades, how are we going to do any better? At least we had success in the conference most years and when we lined up against Kentucky, most folks thought we competed. We aren't even close now.

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Originally Posted by shannondawg

So you know that is was be fired or retire? Prove it..

The media never takes an incident and makes the most of it?

You know that we would have been no better off, the coach that has the most wins in our history would have had better players and wouldn't have had a better team?

After this hire, what makes you think he would make a better one next time and even so, what makes you so sure that the program is going to be in better shape when Rick Ray leaves if in fact he does.? Rick Stansbury had a pretty good recruiting class coming in when he left, you sure Rick Ray will? All that hard work is paying off in spades now isn't it and all the genius X & O's, only thing about those X & O's , the ball don't necessarily go in the hole...

Listen you bullshit your friends and I'll do the same with mine, but don't try to tell me you don't have a vendetta against Rick Stansbury.

I think enough people on this board have told you they don't think your little pet name is funny to negate that statement, all your little message board disciples may think its funny, but don't take a poll you might be embarrassed..

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Well I was there , and I would have voted no.

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Originally Posted by shannondawg

So you know that is was be fired or retire? Prove it..

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The conversation was relayed to me by someone who would know. There wouldnt be all this butthurt by you and rest if Stands had simply decided to retire. Stop with the bullshit- it makes you look worse than you already do.

The media was talking about numerous incidents- not just that one. You dont get labeled "most dysfunctional program in America" over one incident. Shirley you arent that naive.

The program is already in better shape from an effort and drug use standpoint. The guys are on a real strength program also now thank goodness.

I could argue all day but you, but like Coastgeezer you arent going to change your mind. Just sit back and watch Ray make the program better. Thank for your support thru the years to Miss State- hopefully you still are.