Josh Robinson's tweet

You are good at listing stats scoured off the internet. How about providing us the analysis of the mistakes that you say are so easily seen? I mean since that is such an integral part of you semi-serious football watching skill set.

I'll add you to the list of invaluable football knowledge that has been incredibly looked over during the multitudes of coaching searches.

Maybe the most intelligent response so far. At least you stated as opinion without attempting to justify it with faulty data.

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Originally Posted by TheDogFather

I don't know who is more "self-important" (whatever in the hell that means). But I do know who is right.

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Then prove it. You haven't contributed ANYTHING tangible to this thread. All you are doing is telling people that they don't have all the stats. At least I've given you something. Now it's your turn. Give me something.

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Originally Posted by K9 Avenger

Nanny nanny boo boo LOL....how old are you?

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Old enough to not make a dumb post and then edit it by saying that another poster is a "****ing idiot".

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Originally Posted by TheDogFather

Never once stated anyone was bashing players. I did, though, point out that posters were judging player performance with ignorance of the facts.

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You could be posting about how excited you are to see Josh be the feature back. You could be talking about what a hard-nosed runner he is. You could do those things without shitting on a player that worked his ass off for Mississippi State. But instead, you talk shit about Perkins. I swear. You boys are something.

The above was YOUR post to me.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

You could be posting about how excited you are to see Josh be the feature back. You could be talking about what a hard-nosed runner he is. You could do those things without shitting on a player that worked his ass off for Mississippi State. But instead, you talk shit about Perkins. I swear. You boys are something.

The above was YOUR post to me.

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Nope. That was my post to you.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Old enough to not make a dumb post and then edit it by saying that another poster is a "****ing idiot".

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i'll actually have to agree with you on that one...apologies

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Originally Posted by OldFatDog

Nope. That was my post to you.

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Yep. My bad.

Ok. You don't have all the stats. It really is that simple.

You can argue all you want. But it won't change the fact that a statement made without all the facts holds very little value. Unless you are a politician or writ editorials.

Dude you have me confused with someone else. Never once said anything about Perkins.

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Originally Posted by TheDogFather

Quite a contradiction. You state that people use stats erroneously. Yet then you state it is obvious the coaches screwed up based upon the only data available - stats.

I return to my point that the underlying issue here - which nobody admits - is that there is a blatant mistrust of the coaching staff. And people will use what is available to prove it regardless of the absence of enough knowledge to even make a valid argument.

I challenge you to find any coach worth his mettle who decides who plays based on game stats alone. And to say anything is "pretty obvious" when being only an outsider is again, irresponsible.

So for anyone to stomp their feet like an adolescent because they think they can prove their point with a small percentage of the data is sadly mistaken.

An excellent point is the droves of misled posters who spent most of the season criticizing Nickoe Whitley based on "actual performance" or "game stats". In the end NW did not "suck" as I read multiple times and was being praised for his toughness and persistence in playing through injury.

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My retorts to your very well thought out and well written response:

A. Stats can and are used in a very helpful manner in all sports. Defensive coaches use them for tendencies on offensive coaches for example. But while that is helpful, it wont give the the exact answer you are looking for. Stats can be dead on- or they can be skewed and cherry-picked to give you the answer you desire many times. Quite simply- stats are very helpful, but they certainly arent an end all.

B. Your average fan just watches the guy with the ball on offense. They dont check formation, alignment, defensive front, wide side vs near side of the field, etc like coaches or more knowledgeable fans.

C. I'm not your average fan. I look at all that. I look at the RB's pass blocking, carrying out fakes, toughness, etc. Based on gameplay- JRob was the better RB in 2013. Now you are correct in that we dont get to see what they do in the weightroom, study hall, RB group, team drills in practice, hands drills, etc. And all that plays a part in the decision on playing time-as does contribution to the program. Those things are obvious as to why Perkins played more than JRob- because it damn sure wasnt game performance

D. Your Whitley example is not really a good one. He was terrible during 2013 in pass coverage. Now we know that he was a little slow because of a hurt knee- BUT that doesnt change the fact that he was not good in coverage and exploited quite a few times.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

D. Your Whitley example is not really a good one. He was terrible during 2013 in pass coverage. Now we know that he was a little slow because of a hurt knee- BUT that doesnt change the fact that he was not good in coverage and exploited quite a few times.

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Exactly.

But in his mind, you just "bashed" Whitley... So be ready to get bashed as well for "not knowing the whole situation" -- something that he, consequently, also doesn't know!

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Originally Posted by TheDogFather

Ok. You don't have all the stats. It really is that simple.

You can argue all you want. But it won't change the fact that a statement made without all the facts holds very little value. Unless you are a politician or writ editorials.

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Well, then you're a troll. Because you are not contributing ANYTHING meaningful to this discussion.

You don't call people out for not having all the data IF you don't have the data yourself- because you better believe that the person you are calling out is going to want it. Because as far as I'm concerned you have ZERO credibility and no evidence whatsoever that proves that Perkins was doing everything else better than Robinson in practice. And even IF he was better in practice that doesn't mean you play Perkins like Vick Ballard over a player that is more productive IN GAME.

And you can argue all you want but unfortunately for you, yes the data I have provided and engie for that matter DOES indeed prove that Robinson was a better player and should have at the very least played twice as much as he did. There is NOTHING that is skewed by stats such as yards and touchdowns. You either get the yard or you don't. You get the touchdown or you don't. They both played the same amount of games and received a reasonable sample size of carries to make an informed opinion. And inferring that Robinson somehow misses assignments or isn't a good blocker is laughable when he in fact had the key block against Arkansas to spring Damian Williams for the game winning touchdown against Arkansas. Last time Perkins had a memorable block? I honestly can't think of one. Not to say that he was bad at it- but he wasn't noticably good at it either.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

inferring that Robinson somehow misses assignments or isn't a good blocker is laughable

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Is he not technically "bashing" Robinson by implying that he isn't good at all these things behind the scenes? Does that not make him guilty of the exact same action that he's condemning?

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Originally Posted by engie

Is he not technically "bashing" Robinson by implying that he isn't good at all these things behind the scenes? Does that not make him guilty of the exact same action that he's condemning?

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Pretty much, yes.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Well, then you're a troll. Because you are not contributing ANYTHING meaningful to this discussion.

You don't call people out for not having all the data IF you don't have the data yourself- because you better believe that the person you are calling out is going to want it. Because as far as I'm concerned you have ZERO credibility and no evidence whatsoever that proves that Perkins was doing everything else better than Robinson in practice. And even IF he was better in practice that doesn't mean you play Perkins like Vick Ballard over a player that is more productive IN GAME.

And you can argue all you want but unfortunately for you, yes the data I have provided and engie for that matter DOES indeed prove that Robinson was a better player and should have at the very least played twice as much as he did. There is NOTHING that is skewed by stats such as yards and touchdowns. You either get the yard or you don't. You get the touchdown or you don't. They both played the same amount of games and received a reasonable sample size of carries to make an informed opinion. And inferring that Robinson somehow misses assignments or isn't a good blocker is laughable when he in fact had the key block against Arkansas to spring Damian Williams for the game winning touchdown against Arkansas. Last time Perkins had a memorable block? I honestly can't think of one. Not to say that he was bad at it- but he wasn't noticably good at it either.

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We've reached the point in the debate where the loser stoops to name calling and confusing the point as to camouflage the loss.

A troll I am not nor never will be.

I have never stated one back is better than the other contrary to your claims. You should do your homework before making false claims because it has only made you look childish. I have never inferred that Robinson missed any assignments or isn't a good blocker. Only that that information is not available, hence the Nickoe Whitley comparison which is a damn good one.

Finally, you have come full circle and made my point. You nor I nor anyone has all of the information necessary to make these wide, ambiguous judgments about player performance, but unfortunately for your argument, I am not the one making the judgements - go back and read the posts. I am merely pointing out the irrelevant, and misinformed statements of others which do nothing but inflate themselves as a faux expert and incorrectly pin negative comments on individuals they do not know or seem to care about.

Therefore, you should just cut your losses and excuse yourself from this conversation because - just as in your JR vs LP argument - you are leaving important information out of this argument as well. Which, ironically makes you the one not contributing a thing to the debate, and by your definition, a troll.

I am not implying anything, so don't make me out to be some sort of shit stirrer. What I am doing is directly calling out those who are making misinformed statements at the expense of a player in order to either inflate their ego or inflict damage to the coaching staff of whom they know very little about.

As has become a common theme in this thread you haven't made a effort to understand my posts and only are reacting emotionally because you've been offended somehow.

If I've offended you, I don't care.

I agree with with you, and am not surprised that you are one of the few that can respond without letting emotions cloud their judgement. I only disagree with D. My point was not to analyze NW's performance but just to make the point to people are generally jumping to conclusions without having all of the information.

This is the case with nearly every aspect of running the football program. What the fans - even the most informed - don't want to admit is that they are privy to a small percentage of what occurs and is necessary in making decisions in all aspects.

This is not to say that fans can't have opinions. Just don't state them as facts - it is irresponsible.