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Mullen is the greatest State coach in history and that can even be debated. Facts gonna fact.
Croom was dogshit. He only had a winning season due to a helluva D defensive TD's. Dont lose sight of the fact he was an offensive coach (in many ways)
Can we be mad that he job shopped alot? Absolutely. But comparing him to Croom or saying he isnt a great coach is like comparing South Panola to Sylva Bay Academy.
No one is saying that Croom was a good coach. But he did leave Dan a team with good talent for when he took over. Also, in 2010 our administration wised up and for the first time in MSU history scheduled four winnable opponents rather than Georgia Tech and West Virginia in the same season plus Houston with Art Briles. That schedule affected the performance of both Croom and it affected Dan in 2009 as well. No question in my mind we go bowling with an easier OOC schedule.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
I do think it is debatable that Dan was our best ever. Jackie is definitely in the debate. He had more top 25 wins, more wins over teams that won the East/West, and won a SEC Championship Game. His 1999 team finished basically with the same rankings as Dan's 2014 team. His last three years were awful but LT let that get out of hand and should have stepped in earlier.
Bob Tyler should be in the discussion as well. Two 9 win seasons on the field and built the 1980 team basically.
FactsQuote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Thats just insane. It's not even debatable. And Jackie is my favorite State coach. Jackie coached in an easier SEC than Mullen and still didnt do as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Under Jackie- we lost to schools like Memphis and Kentucky regularly. Mullen made that rare and unexpected. Thats the difference.
Jackie was a superior coach to Mullen. Get out of here. We didn?t have the advantages over Memphis and USM that we do now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
We don?t have advantages over Memphis right now. Do we hope that changes? Sure. But financially, they have better funding because they have at least 2 Billionaires supporting their program.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopsDawg
We have 2 gigantic advantages over Memphis...we're in a P4 conference, and that P4 conference is the SEC. That stuff still mattersQuote:
Originally Posted by CaptainObvious
We heavily outrecruit Memphis yearly and literally never lose anyone we want to them. We have massive advantages over them. This take is not reality. At all.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainObvious
It absolutely is debatable. How many times did Jackie beat a good Ole Miss team? 1998 and 1999 and 2001 all come to mind. Jackie ended their 1980's dominance and put us on equal footing with them. He beat Alabama several times including once when they won the West. He beat Auburn twice in years when they won the West. He beat Tennessee when they had Peyton Manning, beat peak era Spurrier and Florida twice, struggled against LSU but had a couple of memorable wins against them nonetheless, and Jackie did beat Kentucky pretty consistently as well. Kentucky was much better with Mumme/Leach than they were during Dan's era. He beat Arkansas to win the SEC West when they were highly ranked, and he beat South Carolina pretty consistently. And the the 1999 Peach Bowl was memorable and the 2000 Snow Bowl is still celebrated by MSU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
We did have some good moments with Dan but the vast majority of those memories happened in 2014 over a three week period or 2010 like Florida and Georgia which are kind of underrated wins and of course the bowl win over Michigan. Aside from that you only have a few other good memories like the 2009 and 2013 Egg Bowl and Texas A&M 2016 and LSU 2017. Leach had almost as many top 25 wins in three years as Dan did in nine years.
I think if you could switch them and make them coach in each other's eras I think Jackie would have won more in Dan's era than Dan did. And vice versa.
What? No. JWS had five seasons out of his thirteen where he won 3 or less games. Just horrible, noncompetitive seasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopsDawg
Had he retired after the 2000 season there would be a good debate between he and Dan.
JWS had losing seasons in 6 of his 13 seasons. And of those 6, five of them were compete disasters with 3 or less wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
I'm here for it!!! My petty ass is looking forward to seeing them lose as much as watching us win. Sorry. Can't change who I am.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell
So die a hero or live long enough to be a villain?Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
Jackie is the GOAT. Mullen is a complete tool. Competent coach though. And if you schedule right and are competent in Mullen?s era, you are going to average 7 wins. Jackie went 7-4 and we didn?t even go to a bowl.
Haha. Fair.Quote:
Originally Posted by DownwardDawg
I don't hold 1997 (he went 7-4 with no bowl) against him. It's the five seasons of 3 or less wins that put him behind Dan.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopsDawg
Pretty sure Jackie had two 7-4 seasons and no bowlQuote:
Originally Posted by HoopsDawg
When besides 1997? Pretty sure not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turfdawg67
He had 4 7-win regular seasons, and he made bowls in 3 of themQuote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
Jackie changed the program and the perception of it. He is the Godfather of State football. He will always be my favorite State coach including all sports.
But Mullen is the best coach in State history. Record-wise. Bowls-wise. Highest ranking. I dont even understand how anybody can even challenge that. Todd wants to talk about what Croom left Mullen- go back and look at what Rockey left for Jackie. Croom's problem was that he was a terrible coach. He could have coached the 85 Bears to a 7-9 record.
Mullen's biggest accomplishment was continuing to win consistently. We have never had a coach do that at State before. Bellard had a great season. Tyler had a couple of good seasons. Jackie had a couple of great seasons with some others good. Mullen was good every year. Even in 2009 we got cheated out of a 6-6 against Houston to keep them ranked high. Are we sour about him job shopping and leaving when he had built his best team yet? Absolutely. But that can change simple facts
That's what I thought. Only one 7-4 season without a bowl.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7