We won't fire Lemonis, and we shouldn't, but I wish he would just leave

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Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

The only real knock on Starkville and State is it's not a metro area with a ton of national retailers and things to do. You have kids that prefer that and you have kids that prefer the college town experience like Starkville. Starkville is booming a bit, it's a lot like Hattiesburg back in the 90s right now. Just need to keep growing it.

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Starkville has it's pluses and minuses. The plus is that it has grown significantly since the early 1990s. We at least have bars and restaurants now so you don't have to drive to Mayhew or Columbus on Thursday nights.
But, it is still really small town. Having had a kid there the past few years, I don't think they lack a whole lot except some better entertainment. Something that the school used to do that has gone by the wayside was bring in a variety of relevant national musical acts during the year - and not just 1-2. I know in my time there in the early 90s we had Jesus Jones (while they had their 1 hit), Garth Brooks, Boys II Men, The Black Crowes, The Allman Brothers, Blues Traveler, Widespread Panic, Indigo Girls, Travis Tritt - and some others. I know tickets are more expensive now then in the 90s - but big bands sell and we seemed to have just stopped.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

It all comes down to branding and buy in. Ole Miss has branded themselves as a cool university and Oxford has branded itself as a cool town and their fans spout that info off ad nauseum . Oxford and Starkville have almost identical demographics, but because their fans drink the kool aid and spread the propaganda the rest of the country believes it. Starkville and Mississippi State have fought buying in to being a cool place to be for the better part of 30 years and are just now turning the tide in the other direction. Thanks in large part to Parker Wiseman, Lynn Spruill, and Mark Keenum.

The other big thing that Mississippi State needs to do is start recruiting out of state students at a much heavier clip. We need to get established in Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Charlotte, Birmingham, and Nashville. Our academic recruiting focuses more on the MS Delta than big metropolitan cities in the South. That HAS to change. Our fans have bagged on OM for the longest time for having all these out of state students but guess where a lot of their money comes from....THOSE SAME OUT OF STATE STUDENTS. It's time to tap into that. Also, our alumni dept needs to get off their ass and start trying to get the young alumni involved. I know people that graduated between 2015-2019 who HAVE YET to come back to campus since they graduated. OM makes a big deal about getting their alumni back to campus at least once in the fall and once in the spring. Our alumni dept instead focuses on Bob from Bogue Chitto and Gary from Grenada.

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I graduated in 21 and I cannot get my friends to show up to anything. I have season football tickets on the 45. Can?t even get my friends to come tailgate. Blows.

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Originally Posted by Brobi-wan

I graduated in 21 and I cannot get my friends to show up to anything. I have season football tickets on the 45. Can?t even get my friends to come tailgate. Blows.

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A lot of it is marketing. The athletic dept has done a crappy job of promoting athletics and making it worth while to be in Starkville for the weekend. Another problem is a lack of lodging. Starkville has I think 6 hotels, with one being a roach motel and only a few AirBNBs. Oxford has double that many as well as many AirBNB options. It's also the fact that their fanbase looks for reasons to come. Our fanbase, for whatever reason, looks for reasons not to come. I think that goes back to perception and marketing.

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Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

Meh, with the portal, 4 years or three years doesn't matter anymore.

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I still think most high school recruits aren't going to a school with the expectation of transferring. If a coach is working off a two year contract, that pretty much says he's on the hot seat and likely won't be there for the kids whole career. Probably not going to move the needle a ton, but in close recruiting battles, it could be the difference and again, it basically costs neither side anything to do it. The only reason to not do it is if the coach turns down the extension to try to force a higher buyout.

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Originally Posted by PGHBulldogBG

It’s just crazy to me that people still want Lemonis fired. He has done a good job this year and we are pretty much guaranteed to make a regional and possibly even host. I understand being hesitant about him before the season after 2 really bad years, but he also had 2 really great years. We have a winning record in the SEC and we were picked last in the west alongside Ole Miss. I will admit I don’t know baseball the way I do football and basketball but it just seems strange

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C34 would probably classify me as a lemonhater, let it be known I don?t hate the man and am rooting for his success. I just don?t have a whole lot of confidence that he?s the best guy for job moving forward. I get he won?t be fired this year, and deservedly so as he?s done what?s been needed to retain his job but to me it feels like we are just kicking the can down the road. I hope I?m wrong and Lemonis takes us back to Omaha multiple times. I just see us as a team that?s going to under achieve more than over achieve while he?s in charge. I?d be more than happy for my opinion to be wrong.

I will say I don?t think he gets enough credit for his portal recruiting. Has he pulled an all American? No, but he has pulled pieces we?ve needed that have contributed greatly.

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Originally Posted by DawgFromOxford

C34 would probably classify me as a lemonhater, let it be known I don?t hate the man and am rooting for his success. I just don?t have a whole lot of confidence that he?s the best guy for job moving forward. I get he won?t be fired this year, and deservedly so as he?s done what?s been needed to retain his job but to me it feels like we are just kicking the can down the road. I hope I?m wrong and Lemonis takes us back to Omaha multiple times. I just see us as a team that?s going to under achieve more than over achieve while he?s in charge. I?d be more than happy for my opinion to be wrong.

I will say I don?t think he gets enough credit for his portal recruiting. Has he pulled an all American? No, but he has pulled pieces we?ve needed that have contributed greatly.

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I think that a certain element of the fan base just won't be satisfied by anything. They rode Cohen's ass about trivial stuff constantly -bunting, cussing, overthinking, being too intense, personnel decisions, leaving pitchers in too long, not being Ron Polk, etc. etc.
When Cohen started winning to much for them, they turned on his assistants and didn't like them either (you even have C34 still calling Mingione a clown when his team has the best record in the SEC). It got worse in '14 and '15 when we "didn't capitalize on almost winning the CWS". Cohen should have seen the ball/bat changes coming, yada yada. They are happier tearing down the positive and accentuating the negative regardless of who is in charge.

Baseball is a sport that ebbs and flows. You can't strive for perfection in baseball. You can't run the same play over and over again and overcome your opponent by perfect execution and strength like in football. You can't have 1 player dominate a game like in basketball. You can have the best team money can buy and still finish last. The worst player on the worst team can sometimes effect the outcome more than the best player on the best team. Many people can not handle the chaos of baseball because the more you try to make it conform the more it resists.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

I think that a certain element of the fan base just won't be satisfied by anything. They rode Cohen's ass about trivial stuff constantly -bunting, cussing, overthinking, being too intense, personnel decisions, leaving pitchers in too long, not being Ron Polk, etc. etc.
When Cohen started winning to much for them, they turned on his assistants and didn't like them either (you even have C34 still calling Mingione a clown when his team has the best record in the SEC). It got worse in '14 and '15 when we "didn't capitalize on almost winning the CWS". Cohen should have seen the ball/bat changes coming, yada yada. They are happier tearing down the positive and accentuating the negative regardless of who is in charge.

Baseball is a sport that ebbs and flows. You can't strive for perfection in baseball. You can't run the same play over and over again and overcome your opponent by perfect execution and strength like in football. You can't have 1 player dominate a game like in basketball. You can have the best team money can buy and still finish last. The worst player on the worst team can sometimes affect CAthe outcome more than the best player on the best team. Many people can not handle the chaos of baseball because the more you try to make it conform the more it resists.

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You CAN have consistency in a program to the point of the ups being very successful and the downs being moderately successful though. State wins a NC and then falls completely off the grid? Even Coastal Carolina, who followed their NC up with a down year, they didn't completely disappear.

Even Ole Miss, who hasn't had a very good year in 24, is not going to miss Hoover 2 straight years. And getting in Hoover, who knows. They may win enough games to make a Regional. They took 2 from A&M. They could take 2 from LSU and win 3 in Hoover and end up a 3 seed somewhere. I'll flip that around. LSU could take 3 from Ole Miss, win a few in Hoover and they could be a 2 seed playing a boat load of freshmen!


Being down after a NC? Sure. Being dead last and next to last in back to back seasons after a NC. No. Shouldn't happen but it did to this HC.

Should have been fired last year!

But he wasn't. So now he will not be fired this year because he has indeed had a better year by a good bit. So he gets a 3 year extension and a raise and a bigger buyout. Congrats. He earned it.

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Originally Posted by CaptainObvious

You CAN have consistency in a program to the point of the ups being very successful and the downs being moderately successful though. State wins a NC and then falls completely off the grid? Even Coastal Carolina, who followed their NC up with a down year, they didn't completely disappear.

Even Ole Miss, who hasn't had a very good year in 24, is not going to miss Hoover 2 straight years. And getting in Hoover, who knows. They may win enough games to make a Regional. They took 2 from A&M. They could take 2 from LSU and win 3 in Hoover and end up a 3 seed somewhere. I'll flip that around. LSU could take 3 from Ole Miss, win a few in Hoover and they could be a 2 seed playing a boat load of freshmen!


Being down after a NC? Sure. Being dead last and next to last in back to back seasons after a NC. No. Shouldn't happen but it did to this HC.

Should have been fired last year!

But he wasn't. So now he will not be fired this year because he has indeed had a better year by a good bit. So he gets a 3 year extension and a raise and a bigger buyout. Congrats. He earned it.

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Every program is different. We didn't just win a NC and fall off the map - we had a sustained decade long run where we were a NC contender all but 1 season. None of those other 1 off teams went to 4 CWS in 8 years and 3 in a row (not counting COVID).
None of those other programs went thru 4 head coaches in 4 seasons (which regardless of what a lot of people think is a huge contributor to '22 and '23's downturn). After that run - where we had the entire university and fanbase giving every ounce of effort to get over the top - I was not shocked at all that we kind of wandered for a couple of seasons after all of that.

People need to get over '22 and '23. Lemonis has played his get out of jail free card. He likely will parlay that into passing go and getting his $200 this year. If next year we suck again, I'm sure you will let us know that every. single. day. you. were. RIGHT!!!

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

I think that a certain element of the fan base just won't be satisfied by anything. They rode Cohen's ass about trivial stuff constantly -bunting, cussing, overthinking, being too intense, personnel decisions, leaving pitchers in too long, not being Ron Polk, etc. etc.
When Cohen started winning to much for them, they turned on his assistants and didn't like them either (you even have C34 still calling Mingione a clown when his team has the best record in the SEC). It got worse in '14 and '15 when we "didn't capitalize on almost winning the CWS". Cohen should have seen the ball/bat changes coming, yada yada. They are happier tearing down the positive and accentuating the negative regardless of who is in charge.

Baseball is a sport that ebbs and flows. You can't strive for perfection in baseball. You can't run the same play over and over again and overcome your opponent by perfect execution and strength like in football. You can't have 1 player dominate a game like in basketball. You can have the best team money can buy and still finish last. The worst player on the worst team can sometimes effect the outcome more than the best player on the best team. Many people can not handle the chaos of baseball because the more you try to make it conform the more it resists.

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Consistency goes a long way. Ebbs and flows are different from peaks and valleys.

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Originally Posted by Johnson85

I still think most high school recruits aren't going to a school with the expectation of transferring. If a coach is working off a two year contract, that pretty much says he's on the hot seat and likely won't be there for the kids whole career. Probably not going to move the needle a ton, but in close recruiting battles, it could be the difference and again, it basically costs neither side anything to do it. The only reason to not do it is if the coach turns down the extension to try to force a higher buyout.

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They all know they can leave if things don't work out for pretty much any reason. Easier if a coach leaves.
Lemonis isn't winning recruiting battles anyway, or we wouldn't be rebuilding.

We've discussed this ad nauseum but we have too many people that just look at the end game and not causes.

Why did we suck in 22? We lost some really good players to graduation/draft to begin. You see that happen to SEC teams all the time. Then to add to that- we had crippling pitching injuries to key players. We werent overcoming that no matter who the coach was. I can easily forgive this season. Put yourself in Lemon's shoes with all the injuries and none of you would have done any better

23? This one caused his job to be on the line. Too many young pitchers having to eat innings for us- that never bods well for college teams. But that comes back to Lemon/Foxy not getting what was needed. Foxy was eliminated and Lemon told he better get things fixed.

24? Things got fixed. We're not perfect in any way but our pitching staff is good plus we play elite defense. Injuries this year have taken some toll but we have done a good job of overcoming them so far. If Dohm can give us something down the stretch that would be huge

25? Job still on the line with the conference getting tougher adding Texas and OU. Pitching could still be pretty good if Loftin and Grant get healthy. Ligon develops some more. Pico, Black, and some others- plus what we bring in. Cupp, Stevens, Trout, hopefully one more out of Dirtbag. Got some young guys that need to grow up plus a couple of portals added- we should be ok.

[QUOTE. If next year we suck again, I'm sure you will let us know that every. single. day. you. were. RIGHT!!![/QUOTE]

I promise you I will! And I do my best to keep my promises.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

I think that a certain element of the fan base just won't be satisfied by anything. They rode Cohen's ass about trivial stuff constantly -bunting, cussing, overthinking, being too intense, personnel decisions, leaving pitchers in too long, not being Ron Polk, etc. etc.
When Cohen started winning to much for them, they turned on his assistants and didn't like them either (you even have C34 still calling Mingione a clown when his team has the best record in the SEC). It got worse in '14 and '15 when we "didn't capitalize on almost winning the CWS". Cohen should have seen the ball/bat changes coming, yada yada. They are happier tearing down the positive and accentuating the negative regardless of who is in charge.

Baseball is a sport that ebbs and flows. You can't strive for perfection in baseball. You can't run the same play over and over again and overcome your opponent by perfect execution and strength like in football. You can't have 1 player dominate a game like in basketball. You can have the best team money can buy and still finish last. The worst player on the worst team can sometimes effect the outcome more than the best player on the best team. Many people can not handle the chaos of baseball because the more you try to make it conform the more it resists.

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Yep you nailed it, 100% accurate! Probably the best baseball post every on here.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

Every program is different. We didn't just win a NC and fall off the map - we had a sustained decade long run where we were a NC contender all but 1 season. None of those other 1 off teams went to 4 CWS in 8 years and 3 in a row (not counting COVID).
None of those other programs went thru 4 head coaches in 4 seasons (which regardless of what a lot of people think is a huge contributor to '22 and '23's downturn). After that run - where we had the entire university and fanbase giving every ounce of effort to get over the top - I was not shocked at all that we kind of wandered for a couple of seasons after all of that.

People need to get over '22 and '23. Lemonis has played his get out of jail free card. He likely will parlay that into passing go and getting his $200 this year. If next year we suck again, I'm sure you will let us know that every. single. day. you. were. RIGHT!!!

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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BrunswickDawg again.

I think a lot of people would be easier on Lemo if we were good at say….football again. Easier to dislike a guy who has been here longer and lost success. We miss the tourney next year will Elite Dawgs want to fire Jans? lol

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Originally Posted by Brobi-wan

I think a lot of people would be easier on Lemo if we were good at say….football again. Easier to dislike a guy who has been here longer and lost success. We miss the tourney next year will Elite Dawgs want to fire Jans? lol

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You're probably more right than you realize, lol.

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Originally Posted by Brobi-wan

I think a lot of people would be easier on Lemo if we were good at say….football again. Easier to dislike a guy who has been here longer and lost success. We miss the tourney next year will Elite Dawgs want to fire Jans? lol

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We had people wanting to fire him this year after back to back tourney appearances with one combined shooter in two years.

Jan wont be at State long enough to get fired

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Jan wont be at State long enough to get fired

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Nope. I don't imagine he'll be around much longer than next March. He's very frustrated with a lot right now. Most of it stems from his hatred of how Cohen ran the athletic dept. We're still trying to fix things he screwed up. This is paraphrasing, but he was putting as much as he could into baseball while skimming the rest of the programs and telling them we had no money.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

Every program is different. We didn't just win a NC and fall off the map - we had a sustained decade long run where we were a NC contender all but 1 season. None of those other 1 off teams went to 4 CWS in 8 years and 3 in a row (not counting COVID).
None of those other programs went thru 4 head coaches in 4 seasons (which regardless of what a lot of people think is a huge contributor to '22 and '23's downturn). After that run - where we had the entire university and fanbase giving every ounce of effort to get over the top - I was not shocked at all that we kind of wandered for a couple of seasons after all of that.

People need to get over '22 and '23. Lemonis has played his get out of jail free card. He likely will parlay that into passing go and getting his $200 this year. If next year we suck again, I'm sure you will let us know that every. single. day. you. were. RIGHT!!!

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Lemonis is 5 years in and has lost the majority of the players he recruited here (poor recruiting). We have little talent next year. Those coaching changes didn't do that. The rest is on target.