Just a reminder to all you guys

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

And I'm sure we'll insist/require he doesn't do that here...

---

Surely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EdwardDrayton

We can all see who the options are and what value each has. We most certainly can evaluate which ones are better than others. What chances Vegas says we have at getting someone is irrelevant. Other than to say we're incapable of getting who we should.

---

No, you can see what names are floated out by "insiders" and formulate your own opinion of their value, but there's nothing that says those names are an accurate representation of Selmon's list, and even if those names are accurate, Selmon's evaluation of their value may differ than your's.

What if Lebby was our second or third option the whole time? How would that be settling?

Point is, we don't know, and anyone that pretends to know is doing just that...pretending.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EdwardDrayton

We can all see who the options are and what value each has. We most certainly can evaluate which ones are better than others. What chances Vegas says we have at getting someone is irrelevant. Other than to say we're incapable of getting who we should.

---

That's pretty much the way it's always been.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KOdawg1

No, you can see what names are floated out by "insiders" and formulate your own opinion of their value, but there's nothing that says those names are an accurate representation of Selmon's list, and even if those names are accurate, Selmon's evaluation of their value may differ than your's.

What if Lebby was our second or third option the whole time? How would that be settling?

Point is, we don't know, and anyone that pretends to know is doing just that...pretending.

---

There is always a general consensus about who the best available candidates are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EdwardDrayton

There is always a general consensus about who the best available candidates are.

---

On a message board, sure.

But that doesn't mean the consensus is reality.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KOdawg1

Lol at some of y'all. Lebby has worked at 4 schools since the Baylor stuff and nothing has been an issue for them. He's been cleared by 4 schools, including our in-state rival, and has done nothing but kill it on his side of the ball.

Would I have liked to have hired a sitting HC? Maybe. But I think that is overvalued. Was Kirby Smart a HC before? Dan Lanning? Dan Mullen? Ryan Day?

Lebby is no more of a risk than a mid G5 HC would be.

---

UGA has never hired the equivalent of a P5 HC. In fact, all their HC going back to WWII - with the exception of Jim Donnan - have been coordinators and 1st time HC's. There is no formula for what will be successful at MSU - none. Our most successful HC's post integration have been hiring our own OC, hiring a man fired twice and considered "toxic" by the NCAA, Florida's OC, and a kooky pirate who wanted to prove a point.

So Selmon - you do you. It will either work out or it won't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coach34

lol

---

Are you saying we couldn't have hired Odom? He's begging for our job

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

If Lebby doesn't believe that Art did anything wrong, that's a big red flag. But if he does, but still associates with him because they're family, OK fine, I understand that.

But it needs to be made clear to Lebby that Briles standing or having any official connection to the program is an automatic fireable offense.

---

We've reached the point where we can leave morality out of the equation.... if he was associated with that part of the past then we should be able to rest assured that he has learned a lesson at another school's expense.... guess you can tell that I've transitioned to win baby win .... we're not exactly Camelot

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

UGA has never hired the equivalent of a P5 HC. In fact, all their HC going back to WWII - with the exception of Jim Donnan - have been coordinators and 1st time HC's. There is no formula for what will be successful at MSU - none. Our most successful HC's post integration have been hiring our own OC, hiring a man fired twice and considered "toxic" by the NCAA, Florida's OC, and a kooky pirate who wanted to prove a point.

So Selmon - you do you. It will either work out or it won't.

---

Bingo!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Art wasn't cleared. They had to settle with 16 other women. The gross negligence claim against him and McCraw was dismissed on 1 case but the lawsuit was lost and the woman won. She was the one who lied in court contradicting her previous deposition under oath about what she told Lebby.

---

Lawsuits aside, the third party investigation cleared him of any wrongdoing, correct?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tater

This is where the binary nature of "guilty / not guilty" doesn't paint you a picture. To answer your question, no Lebby has not stood trial and been "cleared". By all accounts, there is no coach at Baylor from 2012-2015 that is "clear". That would mean proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that person did everything they could right. That's not feasible and you would be right in saying that's an unfair standard to hold someone to.

Our legal system instead looks to prove someone guilty (rather than innocent) beyond a shadow of a doubt. This means that if it's black (guilty) then it's black. If it's white then it's white. If it's gray then it's white. Every coach is firmly in the gray area at best. Art's had a couple of lawsuits where he's been dark grey but since it's not black it's white. Baylor has settled several other cases.

It goes further then for the public opinion to make their decision. Do you want to sit on morals and trust in black and white? That's your right. And Lebby has not ever been proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt.

But double digit women have come forward and reported the rape-enablement and encouragement culture at Baylor. Meanwhile Jeff consistently PUBLICLY defends Art. It's a pretty easy conclusion to draw where Lebby stands morally in the wake of this. He dismisses the seriousness of what happened. He avidly defends his father in law for having done nothing wrong when Baylor has paid several women for their silence.

You can call my logic taking a leap. But I'm not a court of law. I'm a person with common sense. I won't have my
daughter go near Ole Miss, OU, UCF, SeLa, Baylor, or any other school that let a known wolf into their house who was part of that culture. No one should have to experience the profound pain that occurs when being raped. It's not a joke. It's not something to dismiss.

Jeff Lebby has consistently dismissed and downplayed the significance of what happened. I have 0 faith in his ability to lead young men to become good men. Football is important. Some things are more important.

---

"Dismissed and downplayed"
Is there anything you can point me to that shows lebby dismissed or downplayed rape?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by confucius say

Lawsuits aside, the third party investigation cleared him of any wrongdoing, correct?

---

No it didn't.

"The Pepper report has made that role abundantly clear. Briles and his staff permitted players to operate with impunity: coaches routinely failed to report assaults and conducted their own investigations, the findings of which they hid from university administrators and legal authorities."

Do we really want a guy that causes so much discussion over an issue like this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

Do we really want a guy that causes so much discussion over an issue like this?

---

Yes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

Do we really want a guy that causes so much discussion over an issue like this?

---

You and Tater are only ones clutching your pearls over it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

Do we really want a guy that causes so much discussion over an issue like this?

---

Its you and 1 other guy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CoachT14

You and Tater are only ones clutching your pearls over it.

---

I'm not even clutching pearls, I'm just disagreeing with the posters who say that art Briles did nothing wrong, or that Lebby doesn't associate with him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DEDawg

Its you and 1 other guy

---

It's not me, but it's way more than 1 other guy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KOdawg1

On a message board, sure.

But that doesn't mean the consensus is reality.

---

On a message board, in the media and among so-called pundits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FISHDAWG

We've reached the point where we can leave morality out of the equation.... if he was associated with that part of the past then we should be able to rest assured that he has learned a lesson at another school's expense.... guess you can tell that I've transitioned to win baby win .... we're not exactly Camelot

---

We can. But we shouldn't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

Do we really want a guy that causes so much discussion over an issue like this?

---

wasn't necessarily a fan before but in the best Val Kilmer voice impression I can muster...."Now I really want him"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FISHDAWG

wasn't necessarily a fan before but in the best Val Kilmer voice impression I can muster...."Now I really want him"

---

I'll just never understand this mindset.

I'm the opposite - I'm willing to give Lebby a chance, but the fact that a large chunk of our fanbase doesn't want him makes me want him a lot less. We all need to be united ad a fanbase and have a guy we can all rally around.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

I'll just never understand this mindset.

I'm the opposite - I'm willing to give Lebby a chance, but the fact that a large chunk of our fanbase doesn't want him makes me want him a lot less. We all need to be united ad a fanbase and have a guy we can all rally around.

---

where do you get that? B/c of 10 message board posters. Never get confused by the vocal minority.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

where do you get that? B/c of 10 message board posters. Never get confused by the vocal minority.

---

This right here...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

No it didn't.

"The Pepper report has made that role abundantly clear. Briles and his staff permitted players to operate with impunity: coaches routinely failed to report assaults and conducted their own investigations, the findings of which they hid from university administrators and legal authorities."

---

Is that a quote from the pepper report? Or an article?

ETA: I guess it was the ncaa investigation I was thinking about. This article has a tweet that says he cleared of wrongdoing.

https://www.outkick.com/art-briles-cleared-in-ncaa-investigation-of-baylor/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

where do you get that? B/c of 10 message board posters. Never get confused by the vocal minority.

---

This message board is a good community, but it is not representative of our entire fanbase. The fact that a significant chunk of our fans are going to have a serious problem with Lebby makes me think we ought to find someone else.

If he's the guy, I'll support him until he gives me a reason not to, but some of our fans won't be as gracious as I am.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

I'm not even clutching pearls, I'm just disagreeing with the posters who say that art Briles did nothing wrong, or that Lebby doesn't associate with him.

---

Art is his father in law. What do you expect him to do?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CoachT14

Art is his father in law. What do you expect him to do?

---

I've answered this question directly and repeatedly. I expect him not to disobey his employers and have him on the sideline or associating with the university in any other way. What else can I tell you?

Just ****ing win. I don?t care if the coach sacrifices a bus load of ole miss cheerleaders. Just find a way to win

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

I'll just never understand this mindset.

I'm the opposite - I'm willing to give Lebby a chance, but the fact that a large chunk of our fanbase doesn't want him makes me want him a lot less. We all need to be united ad a fanbase and have a guy we can all rally around.

---

It's pretty simple.... I'm 63 and starting to run out of years

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

This message board is a good community, but it is not representative of our entire fanbase. The fact that a significant chunk of our fans are going to have a serious problem with Lebby makes me think we ought to find someone else.

If he's the guy, I'll support him until he gives me a reason not to, but some of our fans won't be as gracious as I am.

---

I just really don't think it is a significant chunk. In fact, until you tell them, I doubt the vast majority of our fan base even know who he is our who his FIL is.

And, if there is one thing about Keenum that we know - it's that he isn't going to risk a huge black eye just to win. I mean, jeebus, we had Bracky Brett on Barney Fife patrol turning ourselves into the NCAA multiple times.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tater

This is where the binary nature of "guilty / not guilty" doesn't paint you a picture. To answer your question, no Lebby has not stood trial and been "cleared". By all accounts, there is no coach at Baylor from 2012-2015 that is "clear". That would mean proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that person did everything they could right. That's not feasible and you would be right in saying that's an unfair standard to hold someone to.

Our legal system instead looks to prove someone guilty (rather than innocent) beyond a shadow of a doubt. This means that if it's black (guilty) then it's black. If it's white then it's white. If it's gray then it's white. Every coach is firmly in the gray area at best. Art's had a couple of lawsuits where he's been dark grey but since it's not black it's white. Baylor has settled several other cases.

It goes further then for the public opinion to make their decision. Do you want to sit on morals and trust in black and white? That's your right. And Lebby has not ever been proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt.

But double digit women have come forward and reported the rape-enablement and encouragement culture at Baylor. Meanwhile Jeff consistently PUBLICLY defends Art. It's a pretty easy conclusion to draw where Lebby stands morally in the wake of this. He dismisses the seriousness of what happened. He avidly defends his father in law for having done nothing wrong when Baylor has paid several women for their silence.

You can call my logic taking a leap. But I'm not a court of law. I'm a person with common sense. I won't have my
daughter go near Ole Miss, OU, UCF, SeLa, Baylor, or any other school that let a known wolf into their house who was part of that culture. No one should have to experience the profound pain that occurs when being raped. It's not a joke. It's not something to dismiss.

Jeff Lebby has consistently dismissed and downplayed the significance of what happened. I have 0 faith in his ability to lead young men to become good men. Football is important. Some things are more important.

---

Do you have the same zeal for all of God's commandments or just the one you have experienced negatively in your life? If you stand up for one moral law then shouldn't you also stand up for the others as well? They have similar consequences and someone will experience pain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by confucius say

Is that a quote from the pepper report? Or an article?

ETA: I guess it was the ncaa investigation I was thinking about. This article has a tweet that says he cleared of wrongdoing.

https://www.outkick.com/art-briles-c...ion-of-baylor/

---

Well NCAA had to clear all of it because they have no directive of violations for that type of situation. That's outside of their purview

Jeff Lebby is one of the best offensive play callers in college football. If he?s the guy, and I hope he is, it?s an excellent hire.

Lebby will be the second best play caller in the SEC if hired.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Well NCAA had to clear all of it because they have no directive of violations for that type of situation. That's outside of their purview

---

Makes sense

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KB21

Lebby will be the second best play caller in the SEC if hired.

---

Yeah, waiting on something official from the news wire.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KB21

Lebby will be the second best play caller in the SEC if hired.

---

You can make an argument that he's #1 as a play caller...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tater

Yes they were. The Art Briles thing pissed off a lot of the money people. This had 0 to do with his stats. All to do with image. OU brass were on board that they felt he would keep Art at a distance and they could wash any Briles stench off of him. They were wrong and he was done.

I'm not speaking out of my ass, I'm more well informed of the inner workings of OU than I am at State. This has long been known to be Lebby's last day. My only hope is that Lebby gets a different offer he accepts or Selmon is doing him a solid.

---

Then go support Ou. You are an idiot

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KB21

Lebby will be the second best play caller in the SEC if hired.

---

This is the part about him I think is overrated.

There are better hires and much better options. But it is over now