The wheels are falling off....

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Originally Posted by Jarius

On the play that WSU scored touchdowns they were facing a drop 8 look for 34 of their points. I have said this about 7 times in this thread. They only ran it the amount of times you are talking about because every time they did WSU scored a ****ing touchdown. Do I need to rearrange this post another way so you can comprehend it?

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Jarius, you're doing yeoman's work here. You can explain it to folks, but you can't understand it for them.

The idea that average defenses such as Arkansas and Kentucky executed the perfect air raid beating defensive style that all the Big-12 and PAC-12 defensive coordinators either failed to consider or couldn't pull off is ridiculous. Even more so since Washington did it every year... PAC-12 DC's are just so stupid they didn't think to try it? Come on.

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Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

They were the only team that tried it the entire game - which game did they run more 3-8 than rush 4, give me one game.

The game you posted - they rushed 4 thirty times in the first half compared to rushing 3 nine times. Do i really have to do the 2016 game as well?

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It's obvious to me what Jarius is saying. He's saying that teams have tried the 3-8 but it didn't work so they moved out of it. A better analysis would be to do a statistical analysis of how Leach's teams have done vs the 3-8 on a play by play basis and compare it to when not facing it. I don't feel like doing all of that work but it's obvious if the 3-8 worked like it's working this year then no team would've ever lined up in anything else.

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Originally Posted by Turfdawg67

This is my thinking as well. If Washington shut it down for 8 straight years, surely other teams would have tried it too. It's dumb to think otherwise. And no, I'm not going to waste my time watching WSU games. Lolz

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I've thought the same thing but maybe some of the other coaches are as stubborn as Leach running his scheme and would rather lose running their scheme than change.

Also Pellini was pretty dumb this year several times so yeah it is possible.

The other thing not many are mentioning in this is Pac10 don't care about D, Big12 either. SEC D is an NFL D league in itself. Air raid ain't gonna work against that kind of talent. Now mix it with some other stuff like read option and other running stuff. Yeah it can work.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Hahahaha- how bad does he want a do-over?

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Boy would he. Easy win

Couple of things about the Oregon game he linked, one, they tried to play 3 man on first drive and didn't work. Two, they protected and gave him lots of time to get to multiple reads. Third, they ran it when Oregon had a 4 man front much less three. So lots of differences. None in play calls, all in execution

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

Couple of things about the Oregon game he linked, one, they tried to play 3 man on first drive and didn't work. Two, they protected and gave him lots of time to get to multiple reads. Third, they ran it when Oregon had a 4 man front much less three. So lots of differences. None in play calls, all in execution

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Just as I suspected- I didn't watch the video. We have to get our players better at running this offense at all spots. The good news is a lot of our guys are young. By the time they are juniors and seniors they'll have it down pretty well and will have adapted to the speed of the SEC. While we also continue to bring in better talent on offense as well to help out too.

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Originally Posted by Cowbell

Boy would he. Easy win

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I wonder what the score would be now.

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Originally Posted by Jarius

I can?t post one because when they give up 34 points in one game off of the same look they generally don?t continue to use that look. You can keep spouting the same ignorance and I?m going to keep telling you the same thing. People don?t Generally continue to Run the same thing when you torch them against that look. Arizona tried to drop 8 some and they got their ass lit up too. Look at them against Minshew. Why on earth would you continue to do what is not working unless you are Bo Pelini?

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It's not the same. Teams are playing 5/6 DB's against us. Arizona was dropping D-linemen in coverage some of the time.

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

It's not the same. Teams are playing 5/6 DB's against us. Arizona was dropping D-linemen in coverage some of the time.

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It might not be the same, however, the blocking isn't the same either!! Maybe if we could run against a 3 man front, much less a 4, then maybe would could and would be better. Just maybe.

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

It might not be the same, however, the blocking isn't the same either!! Maybe if we could run against a 3 man front, much less a 4, then maybe would could and would be better. Just maybe.

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I thought our O-linemen were geared to be run blockers? We can't run b/c we only have 2 running plays and our Oline splits are too wide. Defense also knows the QB run is not a threat. That's why every LB we play has a career game against us.

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

I thought our O-linemen were geared to be run blockers? We can't run b/c we only have 2 running plays and our Oline splits are too wide. Defense also knows the QB run is not a threat. That's why every LB we play has a career game against us.

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We can't run. Splits, not knowing what to do, whatever, we can't run. We have more than 2 runs. But that's not the point and doesn't matter. I'm not defending our offense to this point. It's a joke. I making a point about games leach coached in the pacific 12. Argue away.

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

We can't run. Splits, not knowing what to do, whatever, we can't run. We have more than 2 runs. But that's not the point and doesn't matter. I'm not defending our offense to this point. It's a joke. I making a point about games leach coached in the pacific 12. Argue away.

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I mean, I think we agree. Not arguing. The draw works against other defenses. It has worked for Leach his whole career. The draw doesn't work against what we are seeing.

It's very frustrating bc simple adjustments could make us much better.

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

I mean, I think we agree. Not arguing. The draw works against other defenses. It has worked for Leach his whole career. The draw doesn't work against what we are seeing.

It's very frustrating bc simple adjustments could make us much better.

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We've run inside zone. It's stunk. The toss play, which by stats is a pass, has been ok but not great. All I'm saying is we have block better. Even when we have plays "blocked" , 5 blocking 3 the two double teams never released to the next level. If they did the 4 yard play would be 8 or 10. But it hasn't happened yet. Something needs to click.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

I've thought the same thing but maybe some of the other coaches are as stubborn as Leach running his scheme and would rather lose running their scheme than change.

Also Pellini was pretty dumb this year several times so yeah it is possible.

The other thing not many are mentioning in this is Pac10 don't care about D, Big12 either. SEC D is an NFL D league in itself. Air raid ain't gonna work against that kind of talent. Now mix it with some other stuff like read option and other running stuff. Yeah it can work.

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There's just as much star talent in the PAC, BIGs, and ACC as there is in the SEC.

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Originally Posted by Matt3467

There's just as much star talent in the PAC, BIGs, and ACC as there is in the SEC.

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I'm not going to look it up to disagree, but the depth of those leagues doesn't sniff the sec. The nfl draft says your wrong every year. And the guys a step below that are better in our league. The sec is the best year in year out now question....

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Originally Posted by Matt3467

There's just as much star talent in the PAC, BIGs, and ACC as there is in the SEC.

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LOLOLOL, thanks for the laugh Matt.

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Originally Posted by Matt3467

There's just as much star talent in the PAC, BIGs, and ACC as there is in the SEC.

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The SEC has more talent but it's all relative because Leach had PAC 12 talent on his team at Washington State and Big 12 talent at Texas Tech.

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

It's not the same. Teams are playing 5/6 DB's against us. Arizona was dropping D-linemen in coverage some of the time.

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Oh ok. Go watch the 2018 Arizona game then. They tried the drop 8 with 5 db’s a good bit and gave up 69 points. The play where Gardner hit a guy 20 yards down field to get the score to 21-0 (maybe 21-7?) where he had enough time to eat a sandwich was particularly nice.

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Originally Posted by Jarius

Oh ok. Go watch the 2018 Arizona game then. They tried the drop 8 with 5 db’s a good bit and gave up 69 points. The play where Gardner hit a guy 20 yards down field to get the score to 21-0 (maybe 21-7?) where he had enough time to eat a sandwich was particularly nice.

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You know all these looking at highlights of WSU games is great, but there's a few glaring problems that I see that has ZILCH to do with scheme. 1. All of the games you are pulling up are 3-4+ years into the system. 2. Maybe 1 or 2 of the players playing in any of these secondaries could play in the SEC. They simply can't cover for longer than 3-4 seconds. SEC defenses can cover all day long in zone. 3. They can block 3 with 5.

Again, it's like I said earlier it's all great that this offense has worked in the past. But it's just that, IN THE PAST. What he did with Gardner Minshew, Luke Falk, Ryan Hilinski, Anthony Gordon, Graham Harrell, Kliff Kingsbury, or BJ Symons doesn't mean jack s*** in 2020 in this league. You've got to find a way to make it work here, and so far he hasn't done that.

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

I'm not going to look it up to disagree, but the depth of those leagues doesn't sniff the sec. The nfl draft says your wrong every year. And the guys a step below that are better in our league. The sec is the best year in year out now question....

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I've said it in another thread that outside of Bama (because their recruiting and depth each year is leagues beyond any other team) it's really not that far apart. Saban has carried the SEC on his shoulders since he got here. Before him and minus him there isn't that wide of a gap.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

You know all these looking at highlights of WSU games is great, but there's a few glaring problems that I see that has ZILCH to do with scheme. 1. All of the games you are pulling up are 3-4+ years into the system. 2. Maybe 1 or 2 of the players playing in any of these secondaries could play in the SEC. They simply can't cover for longer than 3-4 seconds. SEC defenses can cover all day long in zone. 3. They can block 3 with 5.

Again, it's like I said earlier it's all great that this offense has worked in the past. But it's just that, IN THE PAST. What he did with Gardner Minshew, Luke Falk, Ryan Hilinski, Anthony Gordon, Graham Harrell, Kliff Kingsbury, or BJ Symons doesn't mean jack s*** in 2020 in this league. You've got to find a way to make it work here, and so far he hasn't done that.

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Vandy does not have more talent On defense than anyone in the pac 12. Leach has beaten the crap out of Arkansas, Kentucky, A&M, and Vandy Level defenses for 20 years. We all wish he would adapt to his personnel until he gets what he needs but that is not going to happen. I think it is fine to be upset with him in that regard but saying he will not Ever be able to field a competent offense against most defenses in this league is extremely premature considering his history.

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Originally Posted by Jarius

Vandy does not have more talent On defense than anyone in the pac 12. Leach has beaten the crap out of Arkansas, Kentucky, A&M, and Vandy Level defenses for 20 years. We all wish he would adapt to his personnel until he gets what he needs but that is not going to happen. I think it is fine to be upset with him in that regard but saying he will not Ever be able to field a competent offense against most defenses in this league is extremely premature considering his history.

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Vandy may not have more talent than anyone in the Pac 12 but they have a HC who is one of the top defensive minds in the country. So he knows how to scheme people. Just like almost every DC in this league, except apparently Bo Pelini.

And look I don't think anyone is saying that he couldn't eventually do it. But we don't have 4-5 years so that he can get his people in here. He needs to start showing signs of improvement NEXT YEAR and he needs to have a 7-8 win team by Year 3. Year 4 will be his first full recruiting class as juniors and the holdovers as seniors. That needs to be the team that can score at will on people. Also it lines up perfectly that if the schedule doesn't change we would get LSU and Bama at home in that year.

Vandy’s defense is ranked 83rd in the country. They had the 97th ranked defense in the country last year. He has not schemed very well, apparently. This is year 6 for him. I agree with the rest of your post. If he does not show improvement on offense by the end of next year I will be worried.

I didnt read any of these posts so if this has been said before then just move on.. but here is my quick 2 cents ..

This isnt a pro Leach post at all but lets all hit the breaks a little..
covid, no spring, no summer, limited fall, a roster that doesnt fit his offense , a transfer QB who is hurt ( I think needs TJ I dont know that just my guess) , a shitty culture and a few that had shitty attitudes, ect.....

Now saying that I never thought a CML offense would struggle and look like this. He is going to have to look in the mirror this off season and make a few adjustments.
The bright spot is defense , where we better be offering Coach Arnett a contract extension where he basically names his price.
We have lots of guys coming back on that side of the ball, and a few commits that can fill in and play quickly and a handful of possible NFL guys .

On CML side of the ball as of now 2 WR that hopefully fit his scheme and are ready with a QB that runs this offense . Also Rogers will have one more year under his belt. That should be a good battle ..
if the 2 backs stay we are solid there, just have to use them .. thats where CML has to look in the mirror and make adjustments .

This guy has won every he has been at places as hard or harder to win than MSU.. he has put numerous SKILL guys in the league . How many skill guys have we put in the league the last 20 year?? Exactly ...

if CML announces he is retiring or moving on at years end I dont think anyone would be upset. But that isnt going to happen.. so lets see what he can do in year 2 and 3 .. He will get Skill guys here .. something we haven?t been able to do over the last 20 years .. yeah there have been a few solid guys ( Bear, Ross, Bump, J Rob, Ballard, ) but what guys have we put or stayed in the league ? Quick answer none, besides Dak.. that?s where college football is now.. its offense offense offense.. and guys that are difference makers..

Here is the bottom line
We dont fire a guy, we at least give him a few years to see what he can do with a track record like Leach. The guy won at Washington State for ****s sake.. he averaged around 8 wins at TT.. I know its the Big 12 , but it was still Texas and Oklahoma when they were winning big ..

If you are screaming for someone to be fired or replaced... You have a guy with a 20 year track record of winning, compared to a guy who is in year 4 with no previous track record of success and has made very questionable hires all over the board.
We might want to start there...

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Originally Posted by Ari Gold

I didnt read any of these posts so if this has been said before then just move on.. but here is my quick 2 cents ..

This isnt a pro Leach post at all but lets all hit the breaks a little..
covid, no spring, no summer, limited fall, a roster that doesnt fit his offense , a transfer QB who is hurt ( I think needs TJ I dont know that just my guess) , a shitty culture and a few that had shitty attitudes, ect.....

Now saying that I never thought a CML offense would struggle and look like this. He is going to have to look in the mirror this off season and make a few adjustments.
The bright spot is defense , where we better be offering Coach Arnett a contract extension where he basically names his price.
We have lots of guys coming back on that side of the ball, and a few commits that can fill in and play quickly and a handful of possible NFL guys .

On CML side of the ball as of now 2 WR that hopefully fit his scheme and are ready with a QB that runs this offense . Also Rogers will have one more year under his belt. That should be a good battle ..
if the 2 backs stay we are solid there, just have to use them .. thats where CML has to look in the mirror and make adjustments .

This guy has won every he has been at places as hard or harder to win than MSU.. he has put numerous SKILL guys in the league . How many skill guys have we put in the league the last 20 year?? Exactly ...

if CML announces he is retiring or moving on at years end I dont think anyone would be upset. But that isnt going to happen.. so lets see what he can do in year 2 and 3 .. He will get Skill guys here .. something we haven?t been able to do over the last 20 years .. yeah there have been a few solid guys ( Bear, Ross, Bump, J Rob, Ballard, ) but what guys have we put or stayed in the league ? Quick answer none, besides Dak.. that?s where college football is now.. its offense offense offense.. and guys that are difference makers..

Here is the bottom .
We dont fire a guy or at least give him a few years to see what he can do with a track record like Leach. The guy win at Washington State for ****s sake.. he averaged around 8 wins at TT.. I know its the Big 12 , but it was still Texas and Oklahoma when they were winning big ..

If you are screaming for someone to be fired or replaced... You have a guy with a 20 year track record of winning, compared to a guy who is in year 4 with no previous track record of success and has made very questionable hires all over the board.
We might want to start there...

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I gree with this. I feel like most of us just want to see adjustments. I just think that may require him making some changes that are going to be hard for him, seeing as how he hasn't made any to this point. I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt there.

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Originally Posted by Ari Gold

I didnt read any of these posts so if this has been said before then just move on.. but here is my quick 2 cents ..

This isnt a pro Leach post at all but lets all hit the breaks a little..
covid, no spring, no summer, limited fall, a roster that doesnt fit his offense , a transfer QB who is hurt ( I think needs TJ I dont know that just my guess) , a shitty culture and a few that had shitty attitudes, ect.....

Now saying that I never thought a CML offense would struggle and look like this. He is going to have to look in the mirror this off season and make a few adjustments.
The bright spot is defense , where we better be offering Coach Arnett a contract extension where he basically names his price.
We have lots of guys coming back on that side of the ball, and a few commits that can fill in and play quickly and a handful of possible NFL guys .

On CML side of the ball as of now 2 WR that hopefully fit his scheme and are ready with a QB that runs this offense . Also Rogers will have one more year under his belt. That should be a good battle ..
if the 2 backs stay we are solid there, just have to use them .. thats where CML has to look in the mirror and make adjustments .

This guy has won every he has been at places as hard or harder to win than MSU.. he has put numerous SKILL guys in the league . How many skill guys have we put in the league the last 20 year?? Exactly ...

if CML announces he is retiring or moving on at years end I dont think anyone would be upset. But that isnt going to happen.. so lets see what he can do in year 2 and 3 .. He will get Skill guys here .. something we haven?t been able to do over the last 20 years .. yeah there have been a few solid guys ( Bear, Ross, Bump, J Rob, Ballard, ) but what guys have we put or stayed in the league ? Quick answer none, besides Dak.. that?s where college football is now.. its offense offense offense.. and guys that are difference makers..

Here is the bottom .
We dont fire a guy or at least give him a few years to see what he can do with a track record like Leach. The guy win at Washington State for ****s sake.. he averaged around 8 wins at TT.. I know its the Big 12 , but it was still Texas and Oklahoma when they were winning big ..

If you are screaming for someone to be fired or replaced... You have a guy with a 20 year track record of winning, compared to a guy who is in year 4 with no previous track record of success and has made very questionable hires all over the board.
We might want to start there...

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good post

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Originally Posted by Ari Gold

I didnt read any of these posts so if this has been said before then just move on.. but here is my quick 2 cents ..

This isnt a pro Leach post at all but lets all hit the breaks a little..
covid, no spring, no summer, limited fall, a roster that doesnt fit his offense , a transfer QB who is hurt ( I think needs TJ I dont know that just my guess) , a shitty culture and a few that had shitty attitudes, ect.....

Now saying that I never thought a CML offense would struggle and look like this. He is going to have to look in the mirror this off season and make a few adjustments.
The bright spot is defense , where we better be offering Coach Arnett a contract extension where he basically names his price.
We have lots of guys coming back on that side of the ball, and a few commits that can fill in and play quickly and a handful of possible NFL guys .

On CML side of the ball as of now 2 WR that hopefully fit his scheme and are ready with a QB that runs this offense . Also Rogers will have one more year under his belt. That should be a good battle ..
if the 2 backs stay we are solid there, just have to use them .. thats where CML has to look in the mirror and make adjustments .

This guy has won every he has been at places as hard or harder to win than MSU.. he has put numerous SKILL guys in the league . How many skill guys have we put in the league the last 20 year?? Exactly ...

if CML announces he is retiring or moving on at years end I dont think anyone would be upset. But that isnt going to happen.. so lets see what he can do in year 2 and 3 .. He will get Skill guys here .. something we haven?t been able to do over the last 20 years .. yeah there have been a few solid guys ( Bear, Ross, Bump, J Rob, Ballard, ) but what guys have we put or stayed in the league ? Quick answer none, besides Dak.. that?s where college football is now.. its offense offense offense.. and guys that are difference makers..

Here is the bottom line
We dont fire a guy, we at least give him a few years to see what he can do with a track record like Leach. The guy won at Washington State for ****s sake.. he averaged around 8 wins at TT.. I know its the Big 12 , but it was still Texas and Oklahoma when they were winning big ..

If you are screaming for someone to be fired or replaced... You have a guy with a 20 year track record of winning, compared to a guy who is in year 4 with no previous track record of success and has made very questionable hires all over the board.
We might want to start there...

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And for those saying Leach is too hard headed to change his philosophy.. maybe he will maybe he won’t.. but who would have thought 10 years ago Saban would have changed his style and philosophy

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Originally Posted by Ari Gold

And for those saying Leach is too hard headed to change his philosophy.. maybe he will maybe he won’t.. but who would have thought 10 years ago Saban would have changed his style and philosophy

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I think the difference is there that Saban was never married to an offensive scheme due to him being a defensive coach. He knew pounding the ball between the tackles had worked for years and he had been successful with it at previous stops. He clearly saw the game passing him by and made the change. And he had been implementing parts of the spread since 2010.

Leach on the other hand is the "offensive guru" and has only ever ran one system and he's never added any variables to it. Same system for 30 years. The variables have been added by guys on the Leach coaching tree, but he's only ever ran the pure air raid. The pure air raid is all he's ever known. Personally I don't think he's ever going to change and that's why he will fail. However, I sure as hell hope I'm wrong. Like you said, never say never.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

I think the difference is there that Saban was never married to an offensive scheme due to him being a defensive coach. He knew pounding the ball between the tackles had worked for years and he had been successful with it at previous stops. He clearly saw the game passing him by and made the change. And he had been implementing parts of the spread since 2010.

Leach on the other hand is the "offensive guru" and has only ever ran one system and he's never added any variables to it. Same system for 30 years. The variables have been added by guys on the Leach coaching tree, but he's only ever ran the pure air raid. The pure air raid is all he's ever known. Personally I don't think he's ever going to change and that's why he will fail. However, I sure as hell hope I'm wrong. Like you said, never say never.

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What is the average number of running plays per game do you need, for it not to be the pure air raid?

Careful I'm going to check the history.

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Originally Posted by Percho

What is the average number of running plays per game do you need, for it not to be the pure air raid?

Careful I'm going to check the history.

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Well played sir.

To answer the question though I'd say probably anywhere between 30-35 true runs would not be pure air raid. Looking at the stats it looks like Leach wants to run between 75-80 plays a ball game so I know it's a pipe dream to think we'd ever get a 50/50 split but I don't think a 60/40 or even 65/35 split is asking too much. Especially if that's what the defense is giving you. I mean I know he'll never do it but if he'd add in just a couple of zone read/RPO type plays to at least keep the D honest I think we'd at least be able to consistently move it.

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Originally Posted by Percho

What is the average number of running plays per game do you need, for it not to be the pure air raid?

Careful I'm going to check the history.

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This year we are no. 1 in the country in passing plays per game at 77.43%. No. 2 in the country is La Monroe at only 65.05%. That is unreal and frankly ridiculous.

There is no set number of running plays needed. Lincoln Riley uses air raid principles but runs it 51% of the time.

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

This year we are no. 1 in the country in passing plays per game at 77.43%. No. 2 in the country is La Monroe at only 65.05%. That is unreal and frankly ridiculous.

There is no set number of running plays needed. Lincoln Riley uses air raid principles but runs it 51% of the time.

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Only cb they count sacks as runs. It's a higher percentage of passes than that when you factor that in.

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

Only cb they count sacks as runs. It's a higher percentage of passes than that when you factor that in.

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True, but that applies to every team. Every team's passing percentage would go up if the sacks were eliminated (except those without sacks).

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Originally Posted by Ari Gold

Here is the bottom line
We dont fire a guy, we at least give him a few years to see what he can do with a track record like Leach. The guy won at Washington State for ****s sake.. he averaged around 8 wins at TT.. I know its the Big 12 , but it was still Texas and Oklahoma when they were winning big ..

If you are screaming for someone to be fired or replaced... You have a guy with a 20 year track record of winning, compared to a guy who is in year 4 with no previous track record of success and has made very questionable hires all over the board.
We might want to start there...

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Wait. Who is that coach?

Oh. Cohen? I disagree. Every single hire has generally been seen as a good hire at the time by sports journalists and other coaches. Even Cann and Moorhead.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Well played sir.

To answer the question though I'd say probably anywhere between 30-35 true runs would not be pure air raid. Looking at the stats it looks like Leach wants to run between 75-80 plays a ball game so I know it's a pipe dream to think we'd ever get a 50/50 split but I don't think a 60/40 or even 65/35 split is asking too much. Especially if that's what the defense is giving you. I mean I know he'll never do it but if he'd add in just a couple of zone read/RPO type plays to at least keep the D honest I think we'd at least be able to consistently move it.

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35% runs with those types of runs gives us 2 more wins this year

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Originally Posted by Ari Gold

I didnt read any of these posts so if this has been said before then just move on.. but here is my quick 2 cents ..

This isnt a pro Leach post at all but lets all hit the breaks a little..
covid, no spring, no summer, limited fall, a roster that doesnt fit his offense , a transfer QB who is hurt ( I think needs TJ I dont know that just my guess) , a shitty culture and a few that had shitty attitudes, ect.....

Now saying that I never thought a CML offense would struggle and look like this. He is going to have to look in the mirror this off season and make a few adjustments.
The bright spot is defense , where we better be offering Coach Arnett a contract extension where he basically names his price.
We have lots of guys coming back on that side of the ball, and a few commits that can fill in and play quickly and a handful of possible NFL guys .

On CML side of the ball as of now 2 WR that hopefully fit his scheme and are ready with a QB that runs this offense . Also Rogers will have one more year under his belt. That should be a good battle ..
if the 2 backs stay we are solid there, just have to use them .. thats where CML has to look in the mirror and make adjustments .

This guy has won every he has been at places as hard or harder to win than MSU.. he has put numerous SKILL guys in the league . How many skill guys have we put in the league the last 20 year?? Exactly ...

if CML announces he is retiring or moving on at years end I dont think anyone would be upset. But that isnt going to happen.. so lets see what he can do in year 2 and 3 .. He will get Skill guys here .. something we haven?t been able to do over the last 20 years .. yeah there have been a few solid guys ( Bear, Ross, Bump, J Rob, Ballard, ) but what guys have we put or stayed in the league ? Quick answer none, besides Dak.. that?s where college football is now.. its offense offense offense.. and guys that are difference makers..

Here is the bottom line
We dont fire a guy, we at least give him a few years to see what he can do with a track record like Leach. The guy won at Washington State for ****s sake.. he averaged around 8 wins at TT.. I know its the Big 12 , but it was still Texas and Oklahoma when they were winning big ..

If you are screaming for someone to be fired or replaced... You have a guy with a 20 year track record of winning, compared to a guy who is in year 4 with no previous track record of success and has made very questionable hires all over the board.
We might want to start there...

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Originally Posted by Ari Gold

And for those saying Leach is too hard headed to change his philosophy.. maybe he will maybe he won’t.. but who would have thought 10 years ago Saban would have changed his style and philosophy

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Good posts. Leach ain't JoMo.

Could be some more news Monday. Ain't gonna be good

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Originally Posted by Dawgfan77

Could be some more news Monday. Ain't gonna be good

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Excellent. News has been really so far in 2020.

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Originally Posted by Dawgfan77

Could be some more news Monday. Ain't gonna be good

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Awesome! ***
2020 - the gift that keeps on giving

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Originally Posted by Ari Gold

And for those saying Leach is too hard headed to change his philosophy.. maybe he will maybe he won’t.. but who would have thought 10 years ago Saban would have changed his style and philosophy

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One big difference. Saban cares about winning and will do anything to win. Moorhead and Leach care about doing it their way and had rather lose doing it his way than win in some other way.