Joe's my guy. I can't argue with Brady as GOAT tho (if that miraculous SB comeback is legit). I can step back and take my Barry Bonds glasses off *Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
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Joe's my guy. I can't argue with Brady as GOAT tho (if that miraculous SB comeback is legit). I can step back and take my Barry Bonds glasses off *Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
I'm not saying he did or he didn't. That information is not known. Realize that YOU DO NOT KNOWQuote:
Originally Posted by KOdawg1
I just find it hilarious that Bonds & Clemens have been crucified when a good portion of the league was doing the exact same thing but face no consequences.
Jeff Bagwell is an obvious steroid user yet waltzes into the HOF & Raffy didn't look like a steroid user at all.
My point being, we don't know. We simply don't know yet two of the best players of all time are singled out
Most accomplished football player? Brady
Best football player? Jerry Rice
Most accomplished baseball player? Ruth and Bonds
Best baseball player? Bonds, but if you remove him for roids, then Ruth or Ted Williams
Most accomplished basketball player? A bunch - Abdul-Jabbar, Jordan, Wilt, Russell, Magic
Best basketball player? Jordan
To me they are equal in talent, difference is Brady played for one Coach which is huge, Joe played under 3 I think but was considered great in his day. Brady has had an awesome career and not being injured much is amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
I can dig this.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Good way of splitting them up to make more sense
One has 6 Super Bowls & the other has 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by basedog
One had the best WR of all time for the duration of his career & one has had semi-garbage at WR for the better half of his career
This is where people get unnecessarily stuck when talking about this.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
You can't compare athletes currently to athletes 100 years ago. If Bonds were around in 1920, or if Ruth were around today, that difference would be mostly eliminated. LOL if you think Ruth wasn't absurdly athletic and talented. We see a guy with some fat on him who didn't run real fast when trotting around the bases, but the guy was an elite pitcher and then the greatest hitter of all-time and completely changed the game single-handedly. He didn't do that because he was big, or because he swung a big bat.
He did that because he was a phenomenal athlete, had fantastic hand-eye coordination, pitch recognition, fluidity, etc. He was an amazing athlete.
You have to compare athletes to the era in which they played. Before roids, Ruth was better compared to his era. Once he was roided out, Bonds was roughly equal to Ruth, at best. Therefore, I'm saying Ruth had the better career.
Minor correction ... Joe can do everything Brady can do but he could also run. However, he could also find his 4th or 5th option that's why he didn't run as much as Stevie boy did following him.Quote:
Originally Posted by basedog
He likes being on that hill alone lolQuote:
Originally Posted by KOdawg1
I wouldn't call receivers at New England garbage, need to check again.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Yes, Joe was very smart and it showed with how he could read defenses. I'd be happy with either is my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgday166
Won't argue with most of that but he only had Rice for 5 of his playing years.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
ETA: Gun ... I enjoy giving you a hard time cause you make it so easy haha.
Joe Montana to me is the better player and quarterback. Tom Brady has had the better career. Or accomplished as Smootness said.
It's like Ruth and Bonds. You have to take the era that they played in to account. If Montana plays in this era where he could play into his 40's I think he would have numbers similar or better than Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, etc. (Note when all of the last four played)
I think Montana is different as a QB than Brady. Brady is a classic drop back passer. Montana really excelled on the run- and that's what I like about him and the difference to me and why I pick him. Montana was a threat to run and he was also deadly as a passer on the run. Look at his signature play- the Catch. Montana changed the game as a QB in a way similar to Ruth. He was one of the first more dual threat-ish QB's in an era where guys like Terry Bradshaw was the template. The 49ers offensive scheme and how they used their personnel was a major change in football that changed the game forever.
Also- if I need to make a comeback or have to pick one guy to win a Super Bowl- I'm picking Montana all day. He didn't win as many as Brady- but when he did play he was basically perfect. Joe Montana changed what NFL coaches were looking for in QB's. I don't think Brady changed the game like that. What's the difference between Brady, Manning, and Brees skill set wise?
Randy Moss and Gronk are garbage? Brady probably has the best TE/H-Back in NFL history to throw to. What happened to Brady last year after Gronk retired?Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Montana's first two Super Bowl were with Dwight Clark, Freddie Soloman, and Renaldo Nehemiah as his WR's. In 1984 the 49ers top receiver was a running back when they won the Super Bowl.
Exactly. If Ruth played in the 1990's he would have looked like Mark McGwire and been on roids. McGwire may have looked like Ruth if he played in the 20's.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
I look like Ruth right now does that count for anything lol!Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
The thing I can't get over was how calm he was AT ALL TIMES. His poise and confidence were off the charts.Quote:
Originally Posted by basedog
In addition to what you just said. How many people are looking for celebrities in the crowd before the game winning drive of a Super Bowl when you are down in the last minutes? Oh hey- look! Is that John Candy. Cool!
Yeah! If you can hit a baseball 500 feet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commercecomet24
I honestly think a lot of players didn't know they were taking steroids sometimes. I'm sure they were just doing what their personal trainer was telling them to do in some cases and just thought it was a supplement or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
I like both Brady and Joe, 1A and 1B to me. In fairness to Brady he won his first 3 Super Bowls with midgets at wr. Troy Brown, Deion Branch, David Patten etc and not much in explosive rbs either. Both are legends .Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Sorry man but nope lol. Since I had my eye surgery though I can see that far nowQuote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
ETA I can throw 2 hours of bp every single day though!
There are a lot of parallels between the two for sure because that's similar to how Montana's first two Super Bowls were. It's kind of odd. Brady was in the stands as a 4 year old when Montana and the 49ers beat the Cowboys in The Catch game. I enjoy watching both play. And then Montana gets Rice and Brady gets Gronk and then they launch a second half of their career mini-dynasty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commercecomet24
I'd probably end up with Tommy John if I threw BP that much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commercecomet24
“Some 20 years ago, I stopped talking about the Babe for the simple reason that I realized that those who had never seen him didn't believe me.”
- Tommy Holmes (sportswriter)
“No one hit home runs the way Babe did. They were something special. They were like homing pigeons. The ball would leave the bat, pause briefly, suddenly gain its bearings then take off for the stands.”
- Lefty Gomez (teammate)
“To understand him (Babe) you had to understand this: he wasn't human.”
- Joe Dugan (teammate)
“If I'd tried for them dinky singles I could've batted around six hundred.”
- Babe Ruth
The Montana/Brady, Ruth/Bonds thing is sort of like Jim Brown and guys like Emmitt Smith.
I'm pretty sure as a player Brown was better. But by his choice he didn't play for a long time even though he could have. Smith has the better numbers. As does Walter Payton who I believe was also better than Smith too.
And I'll say Sandy Koufax had the best stuff I have ever seen on film. But he only had a six year peak and retired at 30.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ArDKjEr_EE
I mentioned in an earlier post Galarraga was my personal favorite player ever. Here's a video of him in the Florida Marlins stadium hitting arguably the furthest homerun ever. MLB initially ruled it was 585ft but later changed it to less than Mantle's 565ft homerun. Personally I believe the change was made to keep Mantle in the record books but who knows. All I know is watching that video it's easy to tell it's one of the furthest homeruns ever hit.
Edit: https://www.mlb.com/cut4/andres-gala...ami-c281243076 It was estimated initially at 579ft.
Man I loved the Big Cat. I wished he stuck with managing a little longer i thought he would make a dam good manager.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt3467
With hs ball getting shutdown I've been having to do it to keep him sharp. I hope when he goes off to college this fall the coaches will be taking that off me lol. These pitchers are pansys now, heck I'm throwing 200 pitches a day everyday lol!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
I remember when he was with the Braves and going through his cancer treatments my little boy would pray for him every night.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt3467
Remind me how many games Bonds won pitching? And Babe hit his bombs in the dead ball era without diluted pitching and he wasn't on drugs.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Also, the mound was higher and only 8 AL teams, so pitching wasn't diluted. Plus the Babe was a hell of a pitcher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commercecomet24
To Me it was Willie Mays--the best 5 tool player ever. Who played most of his games in Candlestick Park in the cold where the wind always blew in.Quote:
Originally Posted by basedog
Truth!Quote:
Originally Posted by tcdog70
That is a great skill in itself! I used to throw a couple hours of BP then about 12 innings worth of 6 outs...the last 4 innings with a dead arm...after which I couldn?t even wipe my ass without chewing on aleve!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Commercecomet24
BTW pm sent regarding your boy
Bonds was only like that for about 3 years extremely roided up. Most of his career was not as good as Trout. I would put Griffey Jr ahead of non roided Bonds. Bonds also lost what made him one of the best all around players in baseball by gaining all the weight. He was one of the few to chase the 40-40 club on a consistent basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Which would also help batting average.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgday166
We will see how well Brady does at Tampa. Montana went to KC and made them good.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Brady also had Gronk who is maybe the hardest receiver to cover in the last 20 years and had a good to great Randy Moss.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgday166
Oh I have to chew Aleve and heat and ice it but I get right back out there lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by shoeless joe
And he had Wes Welker who is maybe the greatest slot receiver of all time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe