Me being wrong 99% of the time seems pretty unlikely. I will make a 1000 dollar bet with you that we go 7-5 or better this year though. You can put your money where your mouth is if you would like.Quote:
Originally Posted by PMDawg
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Me being wrong 99% of the time seems pretty unlikely. I will make a 1000 dollar bet with you that we go 7-5 or better this year though. You can put your money where your mouth is if you would like.Quote:
Originally Posted by PMDawg
I'm not going to root against us, but nice try. You were pumping Moorhead and the 2019 squad too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarius
I mean if I'm wrong 99 % of the time it is free money. Who you root for or against has zero impact on the game. I am right sometimes and I am wrong sometimes. I did not belittle you and thought we were having a healthy dialogue and then you went and attacked me for no reason. I am no less credible than anyone else on here, including you. As a matter of fact I was the very first person on here to tell people that Willie Gay would not be back with our team next year. I'm also wrong on predictions sometimes. If you are so confident that we will not be any good next year then my bet stands. I will let you in on a little secret though. You and coach34 are going to get better odds at a casino than betting me with an o/u of 6.5 though. Have a good day.Quote:
Originally Posted by PMDawg
Any news on the visit since it's been quiet as a mouse?
If getting a possible big time college QB helps us win more games this year I’m all for it
One of the QBs was / is prob going to transfer with or without a grad transfer anyway .. That’s the state of the game now with QBs ...
If there is one position I am not worried about going forward with CML it’s the QB position.
So look for the starting signal caller next year to be transfer... either Costello or Brice ...
If Brice visits and he wants to come here will be interesting to see what happens if he fits the mold that CML wants and looks for.. With Brice having 2 years left to play
If we get Brice, I'd think Roger's would stay (and probably be the starter his RSo year) but the others would leave. I doubt it would hurt us in HS QB recruiting at all
I don't think there's a chance Guidry would have responded to Leach's coaching style.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgday166
I think the best hope is that some guys that lack athleticism get helped out by the constant pick routes against man and by the fact that finding open space against a zone doesn't require a ton of athleticism.
Then guys like Mitchell who have shown some promise but are raw will all the sudden get lots more reps everyday in practice against live defense.
I don't know if that's going to help us against elite SEC defenses. But I am hoping it is enough to allow us to move the ball the other 8 or 9 games of the year. Then it's just a question of how our defense is.
Rogers will have a lot of competition for that job.. Not saying he isn’t the future but there are going to be some big time guys looking to come here with CML..Quote:
Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us
and let’s not close the book on Schrader just yet. Let’s see how he does this spring...and if he grows up
Never know how someone will respond to coaching. Leach also uses many different ways of coaching different types of people. He does not have a one size fits all approach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
Cite?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
Based on recruiting rankings, Leach has not ever had top WR talent.
Crabtree was a slightly lower ranked Fred Ross.
Welker was a walkon at TTU. He got a scholarship after signing day because someone flipped.
Most of the Leach WR's were ranked in the below Cameron Gardner.
2019 WSU
Esop Winston Was rated an 0.8458 Caught 85 passes for 970 yards
Brandon Arconado had no ranking, WSU beat out abilene Christian for him. caught 78 passes for 1100 yards
Dezmon Patton Was rated an 0.8375 Caught 58 passes for 762 yards
Renard Bell Was rated an 0.8437 Caught 54 passes for 579 yards
Travel Harris Was rated an 0.8005 Caught 47 passes for 536 yards
Davontavean Martin Was rated an 0.8080 Caught 43 passes for 564 yards
Rodrick Fisher Was rated an 0.8947 Caught 19 passes for 265 yards
MSU's current WR's
O Mitchell Rated 0.8366
A Williams Rated 0.8529
Gardner Rated 0.8338
Payton Rated 0.8785
Torbor Rated 0.8710
Pruitt Rated 0.8668
Heath Rated 0.8913
Griffin Rated 0.9085
Ducking Rated 0.8627
Walley Rated 0.8702
Seems like LAST YEAR Leach had worse WR talent than he does now at MSU...
Still crickets on the Costello visit. I'm assuming we arent getting him at this point since no one will say anything at all.
I'm hoping no news is good news!Quote:
Originally Posted by mparkerfd20
It’s better than 50/50 we get him...Quote:
Originally Posted by mparkerfd20
Who cares about rankings? We've seen them play. Jesus, we had a D2 WR Corp last year. Show me our Welker and Crabtree. We've got two WRs coming in that play year one in all likelihood. But our returning guys are bad. Really bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by SheltonChoked
I don't think they're as bad as the offense and QB play made them look.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
We don't have a great collection of WRs right now, but WRs who can absolutely play in Leach's system and catch passes? Yes.
Ari, any idea on a time line we can expect an announcement? Or is he planning on taking any other OV's before deciding? We have an in-home with him some time this week I believe. Maybe he commits before then or shortly after that in-home.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold
They're bad. Some were bad under three different QBs and two coaching staffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Mike Leach recruits better WRs. He knows what he likes and gets them. He'll get better players here than other places he's been, but we have the worst WRs returning of any SEC school as far as experienced WRs go.
You are ignoring the fact that Leach recruited those "untalented" and poorly ranked WRs. I would not be concerned about our WRs recruiting ranking if Leach had identified them and recruited them. But just because he can be productive with some poorly ranked WRs doesn't mean he can make any poorly ranked WR productive.Quote:
Originally Posted by SheltonChoked
I think he's going to help our WRs, but the talent may just not be there.
Just for the record - Mitchell is the only WR on the roster in 2020 who falls in the category you defined (3 QBs and 2 staffs).Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
I agree that our production has sucked and we have almost no experience returning. I think our WR corps for 2020 is so young or new to MSU that we just don't know anything about them right now. We will have 2 Seniors (Mitchell and Payton), 1 Junior (Williams), 4 Sophomores (Gardner being the only one who caught a pass), a couple of JUCOS and a a couple of true Freshman. Then we have a whole bunch of TE's who are either RSF or Sophomores. That means we really only have 2 WR with anything close to a track record - Mitchell (who has improved every year) and Williams to base anything off of.
We could really suck - or it will become even more apparent that Moorhead was totally clueless when Mitchell, Payton, Williams, & Gardner all have 60 catches for 800 yards each
You can't teach good hands just like you can't teach QB accuracy. There's not one quality WR returning this year. Not one. We need Heath to take over and Tulu to get touches. Our WRs are criminally slow minus Peyton.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg
And Peyton didn't catch many balls his last year of Juco. You guys can argue a lot of things, but quality WR talent on our roster isn't one of them. We need a transfer to go with Heath really. Take off the maroon glasses and you'll see. With that said, we still win 6 games next year.
He recruited "his WRs". He didn't recruit guys that were slow as hell and couldn't a cold. How many games did we lose Moorhead's first year on dropped passes alone? With a damn good WR coach. Cost us at least two games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
That's not coaching. That's bad WR play.
We will have WRs put up numbers. Period. It's what Leach's offense does. How good those WR actually are will be harder to determine, but it also won't matter quite as much. The offense will put up passing numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
And which of those WRs are still here?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
I'm not ignoring it. I asking what the basis is of " Leach has never has as bad a WR as we have now" when he's never had a team full of "high ranked" WR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
Do our WR's fit his system? Will not know until the fall. But based on who he had at WSU and who he had at TTU (which is too long ago for good recruiting rankings)
But he did steal a guy from Abilene Christian with no other offers and had him catch more passes last year than any MSU receiver not named Fred Ross for more yards than any MSU receiver ever.
2012 WSU
Marks 0.9358
Wilson 0.8333
Meyers 0.7853
D Williams 0.8248
Ratliff 0.8622
K Williams 0.8368
Simone 0.8685
Bartolone 0.7667
2 of these guys would be on our top 10 year catches list, neither of them the Top rated guy.
So again, Cite?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
The fact they played under 3 different QB's and 3 different WR coaches, with running based systems did not help.
Read about what Leach does to have them learn to catch and run. (i.e., the beach and the tennis ball machine)
Also, it take reps to get better. Do you think Dan's or joes read option QB or RPO systems let the WR catch passes on every play in practice? 50% of plays?
Leach has never gotten top end WR's (hard to recruit to Pullman and Lubbock), but his guys have put up big numbers.
I Would guess within the next week or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by HailStateSZN19
Those low end guys are playing in the NFL. That tells me Leach knows how to recruit WRs. He didn't sign a bunch of bad players that can't catch. Those guys were undervalued because they're successful in the NFL too. Not just Leach's system. You can't make bad players good. Not even the best coaches do that. Our receivers will get more catches etc. but they'll still drop more too. They'll still be slow. They won't be NFL guys. Heath and guys we haven't seen yet will be our best. Mitchell will still disappear. Williams will still be too slow. These guys have been in a college program for a few years. They are who they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by SheltonChoked
Didn't he just visit this past weekend?Quote:
Originally Posted by mparkerfd20
I wouldn't assume anything. It's perfectly reasonable to expect someone in that position to at least go home and think/talk it over before making a firm decision.
BULLSHIT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
Catching is a skill. You can get better at it with practice. Yes some are naturally better than others, but it can be taught.
Jerry Rice caught bricks thrown from his dad, a bricklayer, as a kid.
ODB and Larry Fitzgerald used Tennis balls
Leach uses Tennis balls.
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/04/m...very-deep.htmlQuote:
And when they finish sprinting, they move to Leach's tennis-ball bazookas. A year of catching tiny fuzzy balls fired at their chests at 60 m.p.h. has turned many young men who got to Texas Tech with hands of stone into glue-fingered receivers.
Or maybe he recruits speed and teaches them how to catch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
At least that's what he says he does...
It's apparent to me you never watched TTU, WSU or any other Leach team play.
Leach uses at least an 8 man WR rotation. And he plans to throw the ball to all 5 skill positions equally each game.
So we will see all of those guys getting career numbers in catches and yards. Period.
If he recruited guys that were fast and could catch, they would have been ranked higher. It's not like it's particularly hard to see if a guy can run fast or catch a ball thrown to him. I suspect to most people other than leach, the guys he recruited looked indistinguishable from the guys on our team coming out of high school.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
Quote:
Originally Posted by SheltonChoked
I agree with most of what you said here. I think Leach will coach them up, but a couple or maybe more could be processed perhaps. But what's left will be coached up better than they were. Will they turn into LSU or Bama receiver ... most likely not.Quote:
Originally Posted by SheltonChoked
I mean hell ... Steve Spurrier Jr. is one of their coaches so you know they gonna get better ... right ****
I disagree that coaches don't matter. It's not all development and it's not all inherent talent either. It's a combo of both. Some guys have more raw talent to succeed in any system and some need the right coach and system to highlight their abilities. I'd always take the talent if given my druthers because talent + coaching is when you turn into a natty caliber program, but just cause a 3* guy turns into a NFL 1st round pick doesn't mean the recruiting rankings missed the guy, it's that the right system and coach maximized his abilities and put him on the NFL map. Some guys also have late growth spurts/physical development that helps too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
Leach specifically says in his book that he can take wide receivers and teach them how to catch if they are willing to work. Says he can't take a non accurate qb and teach him how To be accurate. Can improve accuracy slightly but not a lot. If he were worried about our receivers he would be loading up on jucos or grad transfers at that spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
That's fair, but until Rosebowl's article earlier there had been no info on if it went well or anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
It went well per Rosie and others. Leaving Palo Alto for Starkville is like night/day difference. It's just one year tho and probably under as good a QB developer as there is in FBS.Quote:
Originally Posted by mparkerfd20
I'd say 90/10. ( Little Birdie)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold
Leach say he can. And speed wise you are forgetting Pruitt and Torbor, who RS'd last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
But you are also talking about living in Starkville for 6 months, not really a year. It isn't like he is deciding where to live for 4 or 5 years like incoming freshmen. I could live anywhere in the US if it gave me a great chance at the NFL. Also, what will he truly be missing out on while trying to be a SEC QB? Starkville has bars and restaurants just like anywhere else. It isn't like he requires a Target or mall to be a SEC QB. Our athletic facilities might be better than Stanford's facilities also.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgday166
Plus you are talking about what he is missing out on for roughly one night a week I'm guessing. Maybe more during the summer I guess. But generally, I don't think college football players get to go to the bar much during the week anymore. The team probably wasn't very disciplined when I was in school and I can only think of one guy that actually played that was a regular at the bars on Thursday night. Other than that, they pretty much got Saturday night, and every other day was pretty much consumed between class, workouts, study hall, and film session.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe