Evidence that Dan was shopping himself before the Egg Bowl

Yawn.
C'mawn.
He gawn.
Moving awn.

Get off my lawn.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

The 2000's sucked for us not because of our history but because we were being investigated, on probation, and made a bad hire that still managed to make a bowl in 2007. After 2009 we went right back on our trajectory in the 1990's- except with fewer big time wins than the 1990's.

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Good post Todd, but I'm going to push back a little on the more "Big Wins" in the 90s. I consider "Big Wins" as SEC games, Top 25 wins, P5 Regular season wins, and Bowls.
JWS - 42-60-1 (.408) vs.SEC; 9-34 (.209) v. Top 25; 5-4 (.556) v. P5 in regular season; and 2-4 (.333) in Bowls
CDM - 31-41 (.431) v SEC; 7-33 (.175) v. Top 25 (in 4 fewer seasons); 1-3 (.250) v. P5; and 6-2 (.750) in Bowls

The only real difference is Jackie beat Alabama and Dan didn't, and Dan played far tougher SEC competition season to season.

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Originally Posted by TUSK

I gotta ask:

Are you cats pissed at Delane Michaels because he:
1. Left for a better gig?
2. Allowed his search for said gig to compromise his current gig?
3. Shit the bed vs OM and couldn't win "big" games (multiple times)?
4. His demeanor?
5. All of the above/other?

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Just 2 and 3. Hail State!

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Originally Posted by TUSK

I gotta ask:

Are you cats pissed at Delane Michaels because he:
1. Left for a better gig?
2. Allowed his search for said gig to compromise his current gig?
3. Shit the bed vs OM and couldn't win "big" games (multiple times)?
4. His demeanor?
5. All of the above/other?

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MOST Definitely #2 and somewhat on #3.
On the former, this is now apparent that it happened MULTIPLE TIMES over his final 4 years or so. And that?s not cool at all

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

Good post Todd, but I'm going to push back a little on the more "Big Wins" in the 90s. I consider "Big Wins" as SEC games, Top 25 wins, P5 Regular season wins, and Bowls.
JWS - 42-60-1 (.408) vs.SEC; 9-34 (.209) v. Top 25; 5-4 (.556) v. P5 in regular season; and 2-4 (.333) in Bowls
CDM - 31-41 (.431) v SEC; 7-33 (.175) v. Top 25 (in 4 fewer seasons); 1-3 (.250) v. P5; and 6-2 (.750) in Bowls

The only real difference is Jackie beat Alabama and Dan didn't, and Dan played far tougher SEC competition season to season.

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Deldte

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Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****

No they dont. According to you and others Mullen was never using us to begin with

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Yes they do. They use us and we use them. That's the way the world works.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TUSK

I gotta ask:

Are you cats pissed at Delane Michaels because he:
1. Left for a better gig?
2. Allowed his search for said gig to compromise his current gig?
3. Shit the bed vs OM and couldn't win "big" games (multiple times)?
4. His demeanor?
5. All of the above/other?

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1. No.
2. YES. Look, I get that people want to better themselves and we all have probably looked for other jobs at one point in time. But there is a right and a wrong way to do it. Dan did it the wrong way in just about every aspect. I feel like he made it more about "look at all these people that want ME" by putting his name out there all the time. At any rate, you should not let your job search affect how you perform at your current job and he did. Allegedly we went through the Arkansas week in shirts and shells. Then he was talking to both Tennessee and Florida- and Stricklin asked for permission to speak to Dan and Cohen told Scott not until after the Egg Bowl- but there is evidence that Stricklin indeed talked to Florida before the Egg Bowl.
3. Yes. He completely lost me after he screwed up Dak's senior day. That said, he did technically leave with a winning record against Ole Miss- so it's more accurate to say losing to Ole Miss two of his last three years. I'll get to the other big games in just a minute.
4. No. I didn't care about that.
5. As far as the big games what frustrated me was the fact that he showed me multiple times that he could not manage a close game in a high profile situation. But I felt like there were things that he did that severely hindered us and to be quite frank we are not a program that can go out there with one hand tied behind our back and reach our full potential as a team. This includes- not playing the best players enough or using them in ways that didn't fit their skill set like Kivon Coman and Brandon Holloway among others. Not recruiting well and not appearing to want to do much to improve that. Obviously not recruiting well limits what we can put out on the field. Not holding his friends on the offensive side of the ball accountable whether it be for poor coaching performance, poor recruiting or both. Meanwhile the defensive staff was constantly blamed for the team's shortcomings creating a revolving door of DC's. He also paid very little attention to special teams or did weird things with special teams which I feel like is another area where we can not afford to be poor in.

So, as I said I was completely done with him after 2015 and wanted him gone at that point. I felt like he had his head up his ass, wouldn't improve, and on top of it all it was clear to me that he didn't want to be here. Even worse we made it relatively hard for anyone to take him because we overpaid him. What is even more frustrating is he showed us what he could do if he is focused at times even after 2015.

I'll say this - if Dan is still around I would expect us to 9-3 or 8-4 at best. Now I am expecting 10-2.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

Good post Todd, but I'm going to push back a little on the more "Big Wins" in the 90s. I consider "Big Wins" as SEC games, Top 25 wins, P5 Regular season wins, and Bowls.
JWS - 42-60-1 (.408) vs.SEC; 9-34 (.209) v. Top 25; 5-4 (.556) v. P5 in regular season; and 2-4 (.333) in Bowls
CDM - 31-41 (.431) v SEC; 7-33 (.175) v. Top 25 (in 4 fewer seasons); 1-3 (.250) v. P5; and 6-2 (.750) in Bowls

The only real difference is Jackie beat Alabama and Dan didn't, and Dan played far tougher SEC competition season to season.

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I just consider big wins very broadly- top 25 wins. It should be noted that Jackie's last three seasons skew his SEC and overall win totals when you compare them to today.

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Originally Posted by MagicDawg

Yawn.
C'mawn.
He gawn.
Moving awn.

Get off my lawn.

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Yep.

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Yes they do. They use us and we use them. That's the way the world works.

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Mike Gundy talked to UT but he didnt do it the day before they played oklahoma. So is it you're wrong or Mullen was just sorry? In Liverpools world we shouldve built mullen a statue and should feel grateful he blessed us with his presence for 9 years

Nevermind

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I just consider big wins very broadly- top 25 wins. It should be noted that Jackie's last three seasons skew his SEC and overall win totals when you compare them to today.

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There is no skewing he sucked it up big time during those years. It is exactly what it is. Your making excuses. His entire body of work is less than Mullen.

Do you understand the definition of skewing? And apparently you didn?t watch much MSU football in the 90?s. I know sitting my ass in the Georgia dome for the sec championship game felt a lot better than sitting my ass in Bryant Denny in 2014.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I just consider big wins very broadly- top 25 wins. It should be noted that Jackie's last three seasons skew his SEC and overall win totals when you compare them to today.

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Ok - so if you focus on Top 25 only, Dan still had almost as many T25 wins in fewer seasons. The difference is we were playing 4-5 T25 teams a year under Dan and only 2-3 a year under Jackie. It created a perception of fewer Big Wins under Dan.

And before you go there - yes, 10 of those losses were in Jackie?s last 3 seasons. But, 2 of those wins were in season 10 of 13 - which Dan didn?t have here. So factoring that in, comparing 9 v 9 - Jackie was 7-24 and Dan 7-33. Dan played a far tougher schedule and had the same # of Top 25 wins as Jackie.

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Originally Posted by ababyatemydingo

Do you understand the definition of skewing? And apparently you didn?t watch much MSU football in the 90?s. I know sitting my ass in the Georgia dome for the sec championship game felt a lot better than sitting my ass in Bryant Denny in 2014.

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But my ass was much happier leaving the Auburn game in ?14 than leaving the Georgia Dome in ?98.

I wasn?t replying to you. But if you must, how many big games did Mullen win? vs how many big games did Sherrill win? Dan padded his record with a ***** schedule. And shat the bed in almost every game where his gonads were on the line and he could have made a statement. In 2014, auburn began the season vastly overrated. As usual. Before our game the only team worth a crap that they had beaten was LSU. And that was debatable. Auburn ended the year 8-5. And lost 4 if their last 7. So yeah, that auburn win wasn?t the Mack daddy it appeared at the time.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

But my ass was much happier leaving the Auburn game in ?14 than leaving the Georgia Dome in ?98.

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But I've never felt as good as a fan as the second we ran out of that tunnel in Atlanta in 1998.

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Originally Posted by ababyatemydingo

I wasn?t replying to you. But if you must, how many big games did Mullen win? vs how many big games did Sherrill win? Dan padded his record with a ***** schedule. And shat the bed in almost every game where his gonads were on the line and he could have made a statement. In 2014, auburn began the season vastly overrated. As usual. Before our game the only team worth a crap that they had beaten was LSU. And that was debatable. Auburn ended the year 8-5. And lost 4 if their last 7. So yeah, that auburn win wasn?t the Mack daddy it appeared at the time.

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I always love how many of our fans try to find ways to downplay accomplishments after the fact. If we had lost that AU game in ?14 and they had finished 9-4 or 10-3 people would claim that we shit the bed again against a Top 25 team.

Jackie played one less OOC cupcake team a year - but also had downright shitty LSU, USC, and KY programs on the schedule every year. Jackie was a combined 16-21 against those 3, not to mention the every year WTF losses to Arkansas State, Troy, or whoever.

Add to it, under the ever shifting metric of ?Big Win? - only one of Jackie?s wins against Bama counts as a ?Big Game? - 1996 - because the other 3 wins came against Bama teams who weren?t ranked (see, I can shit on big wins just like you).

And again - in 9 seasons Jackie won the same number of games against Top 25 teams - 7 wins - as Dan. Dan faced 10 more Top 25 opponents, so tell me again who benefited from a ***** schedule.

I?m not trying to knock Jackie either, or defend Dan. It?s just simple truth of statistics and how memories influence our perceptions.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

But I've never felt as good as a fan as the second we ran out of that tunnel in Atlanta in 1998.

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Agree totally.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

1. No.
2. YES. Look, I get that people want to better themselves and we all have probably looked for other jobs at one point in time. But there is a right and a wrong way to do it. Dan did it the wrong way in just about every aspect. I feel like he made it more about "look at all these people that want ME" by putting his name out there all the time. At any rate, you should not let your job search affect how you perform at your current job and he did. Allegedly we went through the Arkansas week in shirts and shells. Then he was talking to both Tennessee and Florida- and Stricklin asked for permission to speak to Dan and Cohen told Scott not until after the Egg Bowl- but there is evidence that Stricklin indeed talked to Florida before the Egg Bowl.
3. Yes. He completely lost me after he screwed up Dak's senior day. That said, he did technically leave with a winning record against Ole Miss- so it's more accurate to say losing to Ole Miss two of his last three years. I'll get to the other big games in just a minute.
4. No. I didn't care about that.
5. As far as the big games what frustrated me was the fact that he showed me multiple times that he could not manage a close game in a high profile situation. But I felt like there were things that he did that severely hindered us and to be quite frank we are not a program that can go out there with one hand tied behind our back and reach our full potential as a team. This includes- not playing the best players enough or using them in ways that didn't fit their skill set like Kivon Coman and Brandon Holloway among others. Not recruiting well and not appearing to want to do much to improve that. Obviously not recruiting well limits what we can put out on the field. Not holding his friends on the offensive side of the ball accountable whether it be for poor coaching performance, poor recruiting or both. Meanwhile the defensive staff was constantly blamed for the team's shortcomings creating a revolving door of DC's. He also paid very little attention to special teams or did weird things with special teams which I feel like is another area where we can not afford to be poor in.

So, as I said I was completely done with him after 2015 and wanted him gone at that point. I felt like he had his head up his ass, wouldn't improve, and on top of it all it was clear to me that he didn't want to be here. Even worse we made it relatively hard for anyone to take him because we overpaid him. What is even more frustrating is he showed us what he could do if he is focused at times even after 2015.

I'll say this - if Dan is still around I would expect us to 9-3 or 8-4 at best. Now I am expecting 10-2.

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Who do you expect us to lose to beside Alabama? I think we have a good chance of surprising them in Tuscaloosa.

Losing to South Alabama was another big shortcoming. And not playing Fitz but 3 plays to start the game. The entire season was a disaster.

What happened to screw up Dak's senior day? I assume a loss to Ole Miss?

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Originally Posted by bulldawg28

There is no skewing he sucked it up big time during those years. It is exactly what it is. Your making excuses. His entire body of work is less than Mullen.

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Actually it looks the same at worst even if you include his last three seasons.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

Ok - so if you focus on Top 25 only, Dan still had almost as many T25 wins in fewer seasons. The difference is we were playing 4-5 T25 teams a year under Dan and only 2-3 a year under Jackie. It created a perception of fewer Big Wins under Dan.

And before you go there - yes, 10 of those losses were in Jackie?s last 3 seasons. But, 2 of those wins were in season 10 of 13 - which Dan didn?t have here. So factoring that in, comparing 9 v 9 - Jackie was 7-24 and Dan 7-33. Dan played a far tougher schedule and had the same # of Top 25 wins as Jackie.

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The thing about it is PERCEPTION is everything in football. It's WHO you beat. And Dan finishing up the year poorly in his best seasons other than 2010 hurt that big time. The fact of the matter is if we go 12-1 but that loss is to Ole Miss it's not going to be seen the same as a 12-1 season with a loss to Auburn.

And about Jackie having the same amount of wins in the top 25 despite playing fewer games against top 25 teams shows that he was better because he was beating a top 25 team essentially one out of every four times (rounded to make the numbers pretty whereas Dan did it one out of every five times (rounded to make the numbers pretty)

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Originally Posted by RocketDawg

Who do you expect us to lose to beside Alabama? I think we have a good chance of surprising them in Tuscaloosa.

Losing to South Alabama was another big shortcoming. And not playing Fitz but 3 plays to start the game. The entire season was a disaster.

What happened to screw up Dak's senior day? I assume a loss to Ole Miss?

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I don't expect us to lose to anyone other than Alabama. I could see us getting beat potentially by Auburn, LSU on the road, maybe A&M and Arkansas become better with better coaches? Who knows?

South Alabama to me was everything wrong with Dan Mullen rolled into one game.

Dan was trying to get the Miami job and had interviewed in person in Miami while he gave the team the day off. It wasn't just the loss- it was what exacerbated it. We came out flat and Dan didn't look like he gave a shit. And then followed it up postgame with "we outscored them in the second half."

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Dan was trying to get the Miami job and had interviewed in person in Miami while he gave the team the day off. It wasn't just the loss- it was what exacerbated it. We came out flat and Dan didn't look like he gave a shit. And then followed it up postgame with "we outscored them in the second half."

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Not to mention that Egg Bowl was for a trip to the Sugar Bowl. Instead of getting a relatively easy matchup with Okie State and ringing cowbells on Bourbon Street, we got the Belk in Charlotte.

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Originally Posted by Barkman Turner Overdrive

Not to mention that Egg Bowl was for a trip to the Sugar Bowl. Instead of getting a relatively easy matchup with Okie State and ringing cowbells on Bourbon Street, we got the Belk in Charlotte.

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Exactly. Which would have been a potential program changer on a National level especially one year coming off of the Orange Bowl. And actually it was two years in a row where a loss cost us a Sugar Bowl bid.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

The thing about it is PERCEPTION is everything in football. It's WHO you beat. And Dan finishing up the year poorly in his best seasons other than 2010 hurt that big time. The fact of the matter is if we go 12-1 but that loss is to Ole Miss it's not going to be seen the same as a 12-1 season with a loss to Auburn.

And about Jackie having the same amount of wins in the top 25 despite playing fewer games against top 25 teams shows that he was better because he was beating a top 25 team essentially one out of every four times (rounded to make the numbers pretty whereas Dan did it one out of every five times (rounded to make the numbers pretty)

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I think that's only true in the state of Mississippi. A loss to Auburn is more forgiveable on a national level because they're the better of the two teams, and are peceived that way. Honestly, to me the OM game is just another important conference game. I'd much rather beat Alabama. It all depends on where you live and what you're exposed to on a daily basis.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I don't expect us to lose to anyone other than Alabama. I could see us getting beat potentially by Auburn, LSU on the road, maybe A&M and Arkansas become better with better coaches? Who knows?

South Alabama to me was everything wrong with Dan Mullen rolled into one game.

Dan was trying to get the Miami job and had interviewed in person in Miami while he gave the team the day off. It wasn't just the loss- it was what exacerbated it. We came out flat and Dan didn't look like he gave a shit. And then followed it up postgame with "we outscored them in the second half."

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Including the shorts. :)

Let's not forget to throw in the two UMass games. We almost lost the first one, and looked terrible in the home game.

I really liked Dan when he was with us, and think that he contributed immensely to our football program. Yes, we overpaid him, but we had to. He gave us new hope, and that's sticking with us. Coming off Croom, he was a godsend. If he'd only left in a more respectable way ....

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Originally Posted by Barkman Turner Overdrive

Not to mention that Egg Bowl was for a trip to the Sugar Bowl. Instead of getting a relatively easy matchup with Okie State and ringing cowbells on Bourbon Street, we got the Belk in Charlotte.

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We also lost a trip to Atlanta under Sherrill by losing to Arkansas on a missed chip shot field goal, in the snow, sleet, and mud. Went to Shreveport instead, and got snowed on again. At least we won that one. Sherrill also lost to Troy State. I guess all coaches will lose a seemingly unlosable game at some point.

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Originally Posted by RocketDawg

I think that's only true in the state of Mississippi. A loss to Auburn is more forgiveable on a national level because they're the better of the two teams, and are peceived that way. Honestly, to me the OM game is just another important conference game. I'd much rather beat Alabama. It all depends on where you live and what you're exposed to on a daily basis.

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I don't think so. See Michigan-Ohio State. Georgia-Georgia Tech. Florida-Florida State. Heck, if you are the coach at Jackson Prep you have to beat JA. The rivalries are what make football fun- but for it to be fun for your fans you HAVE to beat your rival. To me, the Egg Bowl isn't just another conference game. It is THE most important game. The bottom line is we beat them- it's good for us and bad for them. If you are a coach you have to know who your rivals and are you have to beat them at least somewhat regularly. Even Alabama winning the National Title this year- having lost to Auburn takes some of the luster off of it at least a little bit. For us to be the best school in the state- we have to beat them in football. That's not obsession- that's just the reality of the situation.

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Originally Posted by RocketDawg

We also lost a trip to Atlanta under Sherrill by losing to Arkansas on a missed chip shot field goal, in the snow, sleet, and mud. Went to Shreveport instead, and got snowed on again. At least we won that one. Sherrill also lost to Troy State. I guess all coaches will lose a seemingly unlosable game at some point.

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I'd say it's acceptable once every 10 years. Jackie was not good in that regard. We tied Arkansas State before OT existed. Also lost to ULM, Louisiana Tech, Troy, and Tulane. And the one time he beat Troy it was such a bad performance most consider it a loss.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I'd say it's acceptable once every 10 years. Jackie was not good in that regard. We tied Arkansas State before OT existed. Also lost to ULM, Louisiana Tech, Troy, and Tulane. And the one time he beat Troy it was such a bad performance most consider it a loss.

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Oh yeah, I enjoyed Jackie being our coach. He wasn't good from 2001 onward, but I think his wife was sick. Hard to believe we replace him with Croom though. But as bad as he was, Croom beat Alabama twice, and one of those was Saban if I recall correctly.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

The thing about it is PERCEPTION is everything in football. It's WHO you beat. And Dan finishing up the year poorly in his best seasons other than 2010 hurt that big time. The fact of the matter is if we go 12-1 but that loss is to Ole Miss it's not going to be seen the same as a 12-1 season with a loss to Auburn.

And about Jackie having the same amount of wins in the top 25 despite playing fewer games against top 25 teams shows that he was better because he was beating a top 25 team essentially one out of every four times (rounded to make the numbers pretty whereas Dan did it one out of every five times (rounded to make the numbers pretty)

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You are right, football is about PERCEPTION - which is why I said I push back on the perception that Jackie was a better Big Game coach. The facts show he beat the same number of Top 25 teams in 9 seasons. He won a higher percentage of Top 25 games, but he also faced 1 less Top 25 team per season. The fact is at either of their %, I'd rate both of them as being pretty bad against Top 25 teams.

And if PERCEPTION is about who you beat, it is also about who you lose to. Jackie constantly, annually, lost to shit teams. '91 - Memphis (5-6); '92 - LSU (2-9), USC (5-6); '93 - Memphis (6-5), LSU (5-6), Arky St tie (2-8-1); '94 - LSU (4-7); '95 - LA-Monroe (2-9), USC (4-6-1); '96 La Tech (6-5), Kentucky (4-7), Arkansas (4-7); '97 - Arkansas (4-7); '98 - OSU (5-6), LSU (4-7); '99 - none; '00 - Arkansas (6-6); '01 - Troy (7-4); '02 USC (5-7); '03 - Tulane (5-7), Kentucky (4-8). For all his faults, Dan lost a total of 1 game like those in 9 seasons, while Jackie had 1 season where he didn't lose to some random crap team. For all the "perception", tell me what losing to teams like that does to your reputation.

First question in the postgame press conference after Florida plays at Mississippi State: Do you think the Mississippi State players were extra motivated by the fact you were texting about other jobs the night before the Egg Bowl? Do you believe they viewed this as betrayal on your part?

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Originally Posted by Barkman Turner Overdrive

Not to mention that Egg Bowl was for a trip to the Sugar Bowl. Instead of getting a relatively easy matchup with Okie State and ringing cowbells on Bourbon Street, we got the Belk in Charlotte.

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Thats when I was ready for Mullen to go. Sugar Bowl on the line and he is working a deal to be Miami's next coach. Maddest I've been about a State loss in a long damn time

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Originally Posted by CovertDawg

First question in the postgame press conference after Florida plays at Mississippi State: Do you think the Mississippi State players were extra motivated by the fact you were texting about other jobs the night before the Egg Bowl? Do you believe they viewed this as betrayal on your part?

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''Ahhhh yeahhh wellllll we were kinda herky jerky defense really let us down. We outscored them in the 3rd quarter''