Sankey?s Letter in the gun law.....

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

But you would be in violation of your contract, and one everybody is serious about, unlike the alcholol rules.

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But they CAN'T sue or arrest me, which is what you said they could do.

And I trust EC permit holders more than I do drunks leaving the stadium and driving home as far as my or your safety.

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Originally Posted by Spiderman

Read the law, it's been there for years, everybody is wigging out because most just now realize it's been law.

All this is gonna do now is slow down the lines to get in the stadium because they will now probaly start frisking everybody.

and there is a major difference in a concealed carry permit and the Enhanced permit. Only pertains to EC's

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Once again, the law DOES allow you to be denied entry by rule. What this law is doing is removing that common sense provision. If that weren't the case their would be no "need" to change the law. This is in my mind the absolute most imbecilic thing the Mississippi legislature has ever tried to do since they fought to keep Jim Crow and intergration.

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Originally Posted by Spiderman

But they CAN'T sue or arrest me, which is what you said they could do.

And I trust EC permit holders more than I do drunks leaving the stadium and driving home as far as my or your safety.

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I don't trust all EC permit holders. Some of them WILL be those same drunks, and you know it.

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Once again, the law HAS allowed you to be denied entry by rule. What this law is doing is removing that common sense provision. If that weren't the case their would be no "need" to change the law. This is in my mind the absolute most imbecilic thing the Mississippi legislature has ever tried to do since they fought to keep Jim Crow and intergration.

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AGAIN, a rule can't supersede law. Lobby to change the law, if you don't like it

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Originally Posted by Spiderman

AGAIN, a rule can't supersede law. Lobby to change the law, if you don't like it

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Right, and the law allows this rule to be set by individual entities. That is according to the best enhanced carry instructor I know of, AND the local Trooper supervisor that oversees it. That is what this law changes, and that is why th SEC is going to stop playing in MS if it passes. If that's what you want then by all means back this bill as is Is that what you want?

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Actually there was a Democratic Senator brandishing an unloaded one on the Senate floor this morning.

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Why did y?all elect Yosemite Sam to the State Senate?

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

One more time and to the point: If you do not care whether MSU can play at home, or even play, then by all means support this bill. If you do care, then ask your legislator to amend the bill to allow stadiums and arenas, at least at the universities and colleges, to not allow guns. The SEC is serious, ask Arkansas. They provided for this exception in their law similar to this after the SEC sent them this same ultimatum. That's why I started this thread, to point out the choice we face.

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Again Spider, how you feel about the law/rule is irrelevant. Why I posted this here and why it is absolutely sports related is the implications for MSU relative to the SEC. If our rules/laws don't conform to their rules, then .........well.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

Why did y?all elect Yosemite Sam to the State Senate?

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No idea, not my district or party. LOL. That being said I am at odds with my party on this till they allow exceptions for sporting events and courthouses, and yes, the Capitol. Emotions run high in all of them, and alcohol does in the first one, and probably the last one. ;)

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Right, and the law allows this rule to be set by individual entities. That is according to the best enhanced carry instructor I know of, AND the local Trooper supervisor that oversees it. That is what this law changes, and that is why th SEC is going to stop playing in MS if it passes. If that's what you want then by all means back this bill as is Is that what you want?

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Think about it rationally... what would happen it the SEC does that? You don't think 100 lawsuits would be filed in MISSISSIPPI to block that? If would be a court fight lasting years and years.

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

that passed the Mississippi house leaves little doubt that we will no longer be able to have SEC home games if athletic events aren?t exempted. It also hints that we might be removed from the SEC. I favor gun rights but this law is just stupid. Guns have no place in the hands of drunk fans at an athletic event.

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This is not a fight he wants to under take. He will kill the brand

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Right, and the law allows this rule to be set by individual entities. That is according to the best enhanced carry instructor I know of, AND the local Trooper supervisor that oversees it. That is what this law changes, and that is why th SEC is going to stop playing in MS if it passes. If that's what you want then by all means back this bill as is Is that what you want?

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Then have someone take it to the MS Supreme court and let them settle it. Until then, it's the law and it supersedes any rule.

It's not liberal logic in the slightest. ECL holders only have to go to a range and prove they can safely handle a firearm. Their is no enhanced training equal or anywhere comparable to law enforcement officers. My coworker has his and we discussed this at length today.
The real issue is this, should any ECL holder or even a CC license holder be allowed to carry a gun in publically owned venues such as courtrooms and/or sporting venues? What gives the state, local, or federal govt the right to say no, even with a law. That law could be seen as limiting our right to bear arms which the 2nd amendment to the Constitution says that no law will limit my right to bear those arms, which would include a courtroom.

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Again Spider, how you feel about the law/rule is irrelevant. Why I posted this here and why it is absolutely sports related is the implications for MSU relative to the SEC. If our rules/laws don't conform to their rules, then .........well.

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MSU will do whatever it needs to not get kicked out of the SEC. Allowing guns in stadiums isn't more important to MSU than staying in the SEC. You're getting worked up over nothing.

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

No idea, not my district or party. LOL. That being said I am at odds with my party on this till they allow exceptions for sporting events and courthouses, and yes, the Capitol. Emotions run high in all of them, and alcohol does in the first one, and probably the last one. ;)

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Brings to mind the fracases we've seen recently of the congressmen in some countries where they literally had a knockdown, dragout fisticuff and 'rassling' match. I wonder how it would have been if those guys had been totin' .45's? Many of our representative don't have much more sense than these guys.

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Originally Posted by Lord McBuckethead

The real issue is this, should any ECL holder or even a CC license holder be allowed to carry a gun in publically owned venues such as courtrooms and/or sporting venues? What gives the state, local, or federal govt the right to say no, even with a law. That law could be seen as limiting our right to bear arms which the 2nd amendment to the Constitution says that no law will limit my right to bear those arms, which would include a courtroom.

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What about airports or planes? The 2nd amendment wasn't meant for bringing a gun into a football stadium.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

MSU will do whatever it needs to not get kicked out of the SEC. Allowing guns in stadiums isn't more important to MSU than staying in the SEC. You're getting worked up over nothing.

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It won't be about MSU.... It will be about Mississippians. IF you think that Mississippi elected officials will consider that over being re-elected you are fooling yourself.

Now... my Personal opinion is I see no need in carrying one to a game. But I can not speak for others......

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

What about airports or planes? The 2nd amendment wasn't meant for bringing a gun into a football stadium.

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Please show me where it states it's limited in any place....

If this passes or is upheld me and my family won’t be attending sporting events in MS again. I’m all for the freedom to carry a firearm but a large, full stadium or arena is THE epitome of a soft target and is already impossible to secure without having several hundred extra guns thrown into the mix (with alcohol and emotions thrown in). There is nothing a regular citizen with an enhanced carry can do with a gun in a full stadium that won’t end with him/her hurting innocent bystanders. I don’t many (if any) have regular training for that situation.

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Originally Posted by Coach007

Please show me where it states it's limited in any place....

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Try taking a gun on a plane. See what happens.

1) ECL folks aren't trained anywhere near the level of LEO. Period end of discussion.

2) Every professional team and high school venue bans weapons so why can't colleges?

3) Is it worth the risk of losing the 9 figures a year that college athletics brings into the state of MS?

4) It's funny seeing the tea party argue against their own arguments used for other bills passed in prior years.

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

It DOES change the law. It effectively removes the rihpght of businesses and others to set their own rules for attendance. The courts have repeatedly said that governments and private entities DO have the right to regulate firearms in a reasonable manner. If this passes it will be challenged in federal court by MSU and Ole Miss and numerous private entities. They WILL win. It's stupid and foolish, and ultimately futile.

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MSU is not a business. They are a publicly funded institution. Not a private business. A private business can decide what is allowed on their property the same as a private landowner. This bill does nothing to change that so no private business will have any standing to sue. The government, in this case, has said that enhanced carry holders can bring weapons into stadiums. That is the regulation they made in 2011 and confirmed by our AG in 2013 in an opinion to the city of Corinth. All this bill does is give EC holders the right to sue a university if they deny entry to a sporting event which is currently legal in the state of MS. It neither rewrites nor supercedes any existing law. It is identical in nature to when they passed a law verifying open carry and concealed carry without a permit was legal in MS and had been since the 1800s. It didn?t change any existing law; only clarified and reaffirmed existing law already on the books. Those that think this is a bad idea need to lobby their reps to change the 2011 law. That?s the one you should be upset over.

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Originally Posted by Spiderman

Think about it rationally... what would happen it the SEC does that? You don't think 100 lawsuits would be filed in MISSISSIPPI to block that? If would be a court fight lasting years and years.

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SEC bylaws aren't subject to Mississippi law. It's a voluntary organization. You abide by what the members pass, or you are out. It's the same as the NCAA. Legal precedent is very settled here Spider. If they vote to kick us out we are out. If they vote to force us to play on the road till the law is changed, we do it, or get out. So those FACTS being stated, which is it? Are you in favor of SEC memebership and SEC home games, or are you against them? That's all that matters as for as MSU athletics is concerened on this question. That's been my point this whole time. You have never once answered this simple question. All it would take as for as that is concerened is to allow gun bans at SEC events. You could still carry your gun into a courthouse, as stupid as that is.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Try taking a gun on a plane. See what happens.

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Ask Haley Barbour on that one. Lol.

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Originally Posted by starkvegasdawg34

MSU is not a business. They are a publicly funded institution. Not a private business. A private business can decide what is allowed on their property the same as a private landowner. This bill does nothing to change that so no private business will have any standing to sue. The government, in this case, has said that enhanced carry holders can bring weapons into stadiums. That is the regulation they made in 2011 and confirmed by our AG in 2013 in an opinion to the city of Corinth. All this bill does is give EC holders the right to sue a university if they deny entry to a sporting event which is currently legal in the state of MS. It neither rewrites nor supercedes any existing law. It is identical in nature to when they passed a law verifying open carry and concealed carry without a permit was legal in MS and had been since the 1800s. It didn?t change any existing law; only clarified and reaffirmed existing law already on the books. Those that think this is a bad idea need to lobby their reps to change the 2011 law. That?s the one you should be upset over.

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Never argued it was. MSU athletics, as a memeber of the SEC, IS subject to SEC bylaws as voted by the memebership though. If we don't abide by their rules then we suffer the consequences. What you are advocating will eventually result in at least playing every SEC game on the road. It eventually will result in expulsion from the league. Is that what you want? You have YET to address this question in this thread.

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Originally Posted by starkvegasdawg34

MSU is not a business. They are a publicly funded institution. Not a private business. A private business can decide what is allowed on their property the same as a private landowner. This bill does nothing to change that so no private business will have any standing to sue. The government, in this case, has said that enhanced carry holders can bring weapons into stadiums. That is the regulation they made in 2011 and confirmed by our AG in 2013 in an opinion to the city of Corinth. All this bill does is give EC holders the right to sue a university if they deny entry to a sporting event which is currently legal in the state of MS. It neither rewrites nor supercedes any existing law. It is identical in nature to when they passed a law verifying open carry and concealed carry without a permit was legal in MS and had been since the 1800s. It didn?t change any existing law; only clarified and reaffirmed existing law already on the books. Those that think this is a bad idea need to lobby their reps to change the 2011 law. That?s the one you should be upset over.

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MSU has different alcohol rules than the city of Starkville and MSU has it's own post office code. Pretty sure MSU can ban firearms from campus and it'd hold up in court.

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Never argued it was. MSU athletics, as a memeber of the SEC, IS subject to SEC bylaws as voted by the memebership though. If we don't abide by their rules then we suffer the consequences. What you are advocating will eventually result in at least playing every SEC game on the road. It eventually will result in expulsion from the league. Is that what you want? You have YET to address this question in this thread.

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No, of course I don?t want that. And I dont think it would come to that simply because it?s been a law for 7 years now and it?s never even been mentioned.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

MSU has different alcohol rules than the city of Starkville and MSU has it's own post office code. Pretty sure MSU can ban firearms from campus and it'd hold up in court.

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State law and the attorney general say otherwise, but stranger things have happened.

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Originally Posted by Dawgology

If this passes or is upheld me and my family won?t be attending sporting events in MS again. I?m all for the freedom to carry a firearm but a large, full stadium or arena is THE epitome of a soft target and is already impossible to secure without having several hundred extra guns thrown into the mix (with alcohol and emotions thrown in). There is nothing a regular citizen with an enhanced carry can do with a gun in a full stadium that won?t end with him/her hurting innocent bystanders. I don?t many (if any) have regular training for that situation.

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I guarantee you you have been sitting by a bunch of people carrying in games. AGAIN, it has been allowed for years. If you are scared of licensed holders, you probably shouldn't leave your house.

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Originally Posted by WinningIsRelentless

1) ECL folks aren't trained anywhere near the level of LEO. Period end of discussion.

2) Every professional team and high school venue bans weapons so why can't colleges?

3) Is it worth the risk of losing the 9 figures a year that college athletics brings into the state of MS?

4) It's funny seeing the tea party argue against their own arguments used for other bills passed in prior years.

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Its legal to carry to HS games too id you have EC

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

MSU will do whatever it needs to not get kicked out of the SEC. Allowing guns in stadiums isn't more important to MSU than staying in the SEC. You're getting worked up over nothing.

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I totally agree 61, MSU will do all it can as evidenced by Dr. Keenum's statement. The thing is MSU may not be able to make that decision. It is subject to State law. The SEC isn't.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Try taking a gun on a plane. See what happens.

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That wasn't my question. My question was to your assertion that the 2nd wasn't meant for "X".

I asked where the limitation is within the 2nd.

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Originally Posted by Spiderman

Its legal to carry to HS games too id you have EC

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Yes, but they can kick you out for doing so, as it stands now. They just can't arrest you, unless you decide to resist being kicked out.

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Originally Posted by starkvegasdawg34

No, of course I don?t want that. And I dont think it would come to that simply because it?s been a law for 7 years now and it?s never even been mentioned.

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You aren't thinking this through. Yes it has been law for 7 years but the University has band them in DWS for 7 years. This law makes it a whole hell of a lot easier for people to sue the University and force them to allow guns into the stadium. When this happens it goes against SEC by-laws and bye bye MSU and Ole Miss or either we play every game on the road. That's up to a 9 figure hit to MS economy.

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Originally Posted by starkvegasdawg34

MSU is not a business. They are a publicly funded institution. Not a private business. A private business can decide what is allowed on their property the same as a private landowner. This bill does nothing to change that so no private business will have any standing to sue. The government, in this case, has said that enhanced carry holders can bring weapons into stadiums. That is the regulation they made in 2011 and confirmed by our AG in 2013 in an opinion to the city of Corinth. All this bill does is give EC holders the right to sue a university if they deny entry to a sporting event which is currently legal in the state of MS. It neither rewrites nor supercedes any existing law. It is identical in nature to when they passed a law verifying open carry and concealed carry without a permit was legal in MS and had been since the 1800s. It didn?t change any existing law; only clarified and reaffirmed existing law already on the books. Those that think this is a bad idea need to lobby their reps to change the 2011 law. That?s the one you should be upset over.

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Might as well quit trying to logically lay this out for 99% of the ones on here.

It's like they can't understand this.

I propose if you haven't read the law, you shouldn't post. And if they don't like it, sue the state and take it to the MS Supreme Court.

Damn

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Originally Posted by Spiderman

I guarantee you you have been sitting by a bunch of people carrying in games. AGAIN, it has been allowed for years. If you are scared of licensed holders, you probably should leave your house.

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And if you are scared to leave your house without your gun, you probabaly shouldn't leave your house. Once again it isn't allowed at SEC venues. You would have been kicked out had they known you had a gun.

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

SEC bylaws aren't subject to Mississippi law. It's a voluntary organization. You abide by what the members pass, or you are out. It's the same as the NCAA. Legal precedent is very settled here Spider. If they vote to kick us out we are out. If they vote to force us to play on the road till the law is changed, we do it, or get out. So those FACTS being stated, which is it? Are you in favor of SEC memebership and SEC home games, or are you against them? That's all that matters as for as MSU athletics is concerened on this question. That's been my point this whole time. You have never once answered this simple question. All it would take as for as that is concerened is to allow gun bans at SEC events. You could still carry your gun into a courthouse, as stupid as that is.

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Ok, we and OM would just go quietly.

Jesus

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Originally Posted by starkvegasdawg34

No, of course I don?t want that. And I dont think it would come to that simply because it?s been a law for 7 years now and it?s never even been mentioned.

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Yes, but they can kick you out for doing so, as it stands now. They just can't arrest you, unless you decide to resist being kicked out.

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Every hs game I've been to over the last 7 years has a sign clearing stating no weapons allowed.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

And I?m a gun owner who enjoys shooting, and has taught his children to shoot,who is somewhere to the left of Bernie Sanders, and I do as well. You want a concealed carry permit, there should be licensing, training, and qualifications. You want enhanced cc, then that level of training needs to be at a very high level - boarderline professional. You want to collect and shoot military grade weapons - then you need all of that, secure storage, and insurance. I?d bet most of you have similar opinions. Letting ALEC and the NRA push us into guns, guns everywhere is just as bad as many liberals push to take them away.

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A lot of people would change their stance if every Muslim in the US bought an AR15 and started walking around with it. Most people are fine as long as it is a good old boy even though most of the mass shootings are mentally deranged white guys.

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Originally Posted by WinningIsRelentless

1) ECL folks aren't trained anywhere near the level of LEO. Period end of discussion.

2) Every professional team and high school venue bans weapons so why can't colleges?

3) Is it worth the risk of losing the 9 figures a year that college athletics brings into the state of MS?

4) It's funny seeing the tea party argue against their own arguments used for other bills passed in prior years.

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Again, I see no need in bringing one.... but other feel differently and the fact is it's their right.

Somebody mentioned that the colleg games are considered soft targets.

I can assure you that I do not trust a security guard over my own ability. I can assure you there is NOT enough enforcement at games.

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

And if you are scared to leave your house without your gun, you probabaly shouldn't leave your house. Once again it isn't allowed at SEC venues. You would have been kicked out had they known you had a gun.

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I'm not scared. Just refuse to not be prepared and at the mercy of others to hurt or protect me and my family.