Mason decommits and commits to UPig

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Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

I can tell you what kids I've been involved with basically say about State. They all like State, but it's the "boring" option. The parents like it because it's a "laid back" school and not a lot of trouble.
The athletes and their parents mention the atmosphere at OM (fun and passionate). They mention how many wealthy people are at OM (right or wrong, folks consider that as far as opportunities in the future because of connections etc.). They also mention how so many people move back to OM later because it's a great place.
Now, I've seen a million times how we all talk about "we recruit a certain kind of kid" and "if you're looking for fun, we don't need you" type stuff. That's the lack of passion. Hell, the only time I hear from the alumni assoc. or anyone with MSU is when they want me to buy more tickets. We're too damn passive. We don't want to make things better or make things happen. We want to sit back and then complain and dismiss kids for not wanting to come here. Go do something about it. Stop complaining because we aren't this or that and definitely stop having pride in being some type of "different" school when that's not what the kids want.
Hell, our out of state recruiting of students is worse than our recruiting of athletes out of state. OM goes and gets those kids and gets their name out there.

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I don?t think the word ?passion? means what you think it means. You are not describing a lack of passion in your posts. So I can fully understand, please lists the reasons you believe OM fans, or any fans, are more passionate than State fans.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Great post.

Ole Miss is more committed than us and more cut throat. It’s as simple as that. MSU people are more realistic and rational but that’s not always a great thing. Particularly in recruiting.

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You?re conflating commitment with passion.

Also, if what OM and the network does in recruiting is your definition of ?commitment,? you can have that.

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Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

I can tell you what kids I've been involved with basically say about State. They all like State, but it's the "boring" option. The parents like it because it's a "laid back" school and not a lot of trouble.
The athletes and their parents mention the atmosphere at OM (fun and passionate). They mention how many wealthy people are at OM (right or wrong, folks consider that as far as opportunities in the future because of connections etc.). They also mention how so many people move back to OM later because it's a great place.
Now, I've seen a million times how we all talk about "we recruit a certain kind of kid" and "if you're looking for fun, we don't need you" type stuff. That's the lack of passion. Hell, the only time I hear from the alumni assoc. or anyone with MSU is when they want me to buy more tickets. We're too damn passive. We don't want to make things better or make things happen. We want to sit back and then complain and dismiss kids for not wanting to come here. Go do something about it. Stop complaining because we aren't this or that and definitely stop having pride in being some type of "different" school when that's not what the kids want.
Hell, our out of state recruiting of students is worse than our recruiting of athletes out of state. OM goes and gets those kids and gets their name out there.

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COME ON.... Don't confuse passion with morals. That is plain dumb. Also-- considering you have completely lost reality on the situation-- there is no way in hell I'm gonna let you dictate what pride I have in MSU. If you want to sit there and compare us to OM with every single waking breath that's your prerogative and loss honestly, but to help you out they aint filling up their stadium either and the passion they have is crazy and aint got shit to show for it except bow ties and cold chicken fingers.

I wonder why so many people retire in Oxford??? hmmm maybe because its a suburb of memphis? ya know.. A city with a population of 670K and the nearest cities to starkville that even compare are Jackson (2.5 hours and pop of 160k) and Birmingham (2.5 hours and 210k pop) This really isn't a hard concept to grasp.

Starkville is in the middle of Nowhere and what we've accomplished despite that speaks volume about our fanbase and ability to be a "different" yet still great. It's actually more impressive than OM if you have a brain. This doesnt mean that I am content with the status quo either which is how you will probably perceive it. Confucious pretty much nailed it btw

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Originally Posted by Jack Lambert

Sounds to me that our staff did not care if he moved on or not. Plus his chance of seeing the field at RB is better at ARkY right now.

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I doubt he plays RB. The #3 JUCO RB just committed to Arkansas and there are 4 RBs on the roster already. Need safeties a lot more.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

You?re conflating commitment with passion.

Also, if what OM and the network does in recruiting is your definition of ?commitment,? you can have that.

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I’m not saying we should do what they do, but they will likely always recruit better than us because they are willing to win at all cost.

I’m not making a judgement on what we should or shouldn’t do. Just stating the reality normally the most aggressive companies & people get the bacon.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

I’m not saying we should do what they do, but they will likely always recruit better than us because they are willing to win at all cost.

I’m not making a judgement on what we should or shouldn’t do. Just stating the reality normally the most aggressive companies & people get the bacon.

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Why do you think they have recruited better than us? Bc 247 tells you so on signing day.

We have a crap ton more talent on our roster than they do, no? And look at the nfl. We have one of the top 2-3 corners in the nfl, the best defensive tackle, a top 2-3 offensive guard, a top 10 qb, two stand out lb (although KJ is aging), etc... I?ll take our current roster and last 10 recruiting classes over theirs every day of the week and so would you. Yet we?ve ?outrecuited? then maybe twice in that time period.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Everybody should be blackout drunk in the Junction at 2am after a football game or you're a shitty fan!!!****

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If that?s what you read you have a comprehension problem. Carry on.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

I’m not saying we should do what they do, but they will likely always recruit better than us because they are willing to win at all cost.

I’m not making a judgement on what we should or shouldn’t do. Just stating the reality normally the most aggressive companies & people get the bacon.

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But that's it, they're not getting "the bacon" We have a better record than them and have consistently finished higher than them in the SEC over the last 9 years.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

But that's it, they're not getting "the bacon" We have a better record than them and have consistently finished higher than them in the SEC over the last 9 years.

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Not to mention signed better players, 247 ratings notwithstanding.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

Not to mention signed better players, 247 ratings notwithstanding.

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Yep, exactly! Would anyone want to trade rosters with the bears? Hell no!

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

But that's it, they're not getting "the bacon" We have a better record than them and have consistently finished higher than them in the SEC over the last 9 years.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

Not to mention signed better players, 247 ratings notwithstanding.

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PLEASE NO FACTS!!! It will ruin their perception and the narrative they choose to believe.

Where are all these people moving back to oxford because it's such a great place? It's certainly not reflected in the numbers. Populations: Oxford=23,290, Starkville=25,570. Lafayette County=53,154, Oktibbeha County=49,800.

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Originally Posted by CarolinaDawgs

I wonder why so many people retire in Oxford??? hmmm maybe because its a suburb of memphis? ya know.. A city with a population of 670K and the nearest cities to starkville that even compare are Jackson (2.5 hours and pop of 160k) and Birmingham (2.5 hours and 210k pop) This really isn't a hard concept to grasp.

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Oxford is 85 miles from Memphis, and while that maybe the closest large metro to Oxford, it's not a suburb.

i live 20 mins from Oxford.... there is a lot of debt there and a lot of inventory in the housing market.....

I think C34 put it most eloquently, oxford is grenada without the lake.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

Why do you think they have recruited better than us? Bc 247 tells you so on signing day.

We have a crap ton more talent on our roster than they do, no? And look at the nfl. We have one of the top 2-3 corners in the nfl, the best defensive tackle, a top 2-3 offensive guard, a top 10 qb, two stand out lb (although KJ is aging), etc... I?ll take our current roster and last 10 recruiting classes over theirs every day of the week and so would you. Yet we?ve ?outrecuited? then maybe twice in that time period.

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Who has won the Egg Bowl three out of the past four years?

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Who has won the Egg Bowl three out of the past four years?

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The talent disparity (between OM/MSU) over the last 3 years is pretty small... MSU does seem to do a little more with a little less, however...

(premature... still crunching...)

Those 3 losses to unm were more a product of crappy coaching than them having more talent, imo. (That and a qb with a half turn off leg thanks to a cheap shot).

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

Those 3 losses to unm were more a product of crappy coaching than them having more talent, imo. (That and a qb with a half turn off leg thanks to a cheap shot).

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Meh... they were more talented in 2014 and 2015 imo. Both teams had talent though for sure.

We were more talented this year

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Originally Posted by TUSK

The talent disparity (between OM/MSU) over the last 3 years is pretty small... MSU does seem to do a little more with a little less, however...

(premature... still crunching...)

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MSU has been more talented on defense & in the running game & Ole Miss has been more explosive on offense.

Depending on the type of strengths needed to beat opponents, we both tended to have have success against different teams while accumulating similar records.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Meh... they were more talented in 2014 and 2015 imo. Both teams had talent though for sure.

We were more talented this year

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I think it was pretty even those 2 years. I was just pointing out I think the losses were on danny boy more than them having more talent. We should?ve won in 14 and 15. But I agree both teams had similar talent

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

I think it was pretty even those 2 years. I was just pointing out I think the losses were on danny boy more than them having more talent. We should?ve won in 14 and 15. But I agree both teams had similar talent

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We definitely should have won in 2014.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

We definitely should have won in 2014.

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Yeah that game was a total cluster

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Originally Posted by TUSK

The talent disparity (between OM/MSU) over the last 3 years is pretty small... MSU does seem to do a little more with a little less, however...

(premature... still crunching...)

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So, with the question being "would you really take their roster over ours..." the answer is probably negligible at best. And being that I am 100% sure WE weren't recruiting up to our potential because of Dan's laziness- we should have clearly been the better team had we been recruiting up to ours or at least closer to it. Even with Ole Miss cheating out the wazoo.

And that brings me to this point about MSU fans and MSU in general- we simply undervalue or let way too much slide in recruiting especially under the Dan Mullen era. What MSU allowed Dan to do in recruiting would not have been acceptable at very many if any SEC schools not named Vanderbilt. And that's 100% on MSU. And why people like Shotgun say things like "Ole Miss just simply wants it more in recruiting". Because when a school like MSU allows coaches like Hevesy, Sallach, and Gonzales to hang around and put forth about 50% effort and not demand changes...what other conclusion can people come to other than MSU simply just doesn't care? MSU should have demanded wholesale staff changes on the offensive side after the 2015 season. Instead we just didn't extend Dan. Instead up until the time Dan left a lot of our fans defended our staff ad nauseum- very visible MSU fans that have podcasts and things like that telling me on Twitter that Hevesy wasn't the problem and basically protecting what was going on all the while telling me and everyone else that if you aren't happy with 8 win seasons at MSU you will never be happy in your life. That attitude HAS to change.

But it's really not about switching rosters- it's what would happen if MSU didn't miss on so many targets in recruiting? Not necessarily even the ones that went to Ole Miss- but MSU has lost several in state recruits to other schools as well like LSU, Alabama, Auburn, Arkansas, and etc. Simply adding 1-2 of those would have probably put MSU over the top against Ole Miss and probably helped us get at least one Sugar Bowl appearance, perhaps a better season than 6-7 in 2016 and who knows about this year. When I read that a recruit from Mississippi chose LSU simply because "LSU just seemed to want me more"- that tells me EVERYTHING that was wrong with MSU recruiting right there.

The good news is it CAN change- and without wholesale illegal recruiting. MSU women's basketball has a FAR worse history than MSU football and they have managed to recruit at a high level. The other sports at MSU recruit well. Our fans give football a pass because for some reason it has been ingrained that we can't do better than a Liberty Bowl and an Egg Bowl win. And therefore our last coach was given a pass he shouldn't have gotten and the whole program and fanbase suffered.

Somehow our fans HAVE TO get to the point where:

1. They have to understand that there is some merit to the star system.
2. We CAN recruit better- and wanting to do so does not mean wholesale cheating like Ole Miss. And be OK with that.
3. Be OK holding coaches and the athletic department accountable.
4. Understand that recruiting CAN BE a useful tool for promoting program perception and be OK with a player picking us with a hat party, at the Army/UA AAG, and etc. and not be worried about "but what will happen if they don't pan out"?

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

So, with the question being "would you really take their roster over ours..." the answer is probably negligible at best. And being that I am 100% sure WE weren't recruiting up to our potential because of Dan's laziness- we should have clearly been the better team had we been recruiting up to ours or at least closer to it. Even with Ole Miss cheating out the wazoo.

And that brings me to this point about MSU fans and MSU in general- we simply undervalue or let way too much slide in recruiting especially under the Dan Mullen era. What MSU allowed Dan to do in recruiting would not have been acceptable at very many if any SEC schools not named Vanderbilt. And that's 100% on MSU. And why people like Shotgun say things like "Ole Miss just simply wants it more in recruiting". Because when a school like MSU allows coaches like Hevesy, Sallach, and Gonzales to hang around and put forth about 50% effort and not demand changes...what other conclusion can people come to other than MSU simply just doesn't care? MSU should have demanded wholesale staff changes on the offensive side after the 2015 season. Instead we just didn't extend Dan. Instead up until the time Dan left a lot of our fans defended our staff ad nauseum- very visible MSU fans that have podcasts and things like that telling me on Twitter that Hevesy wasn't the problem and basically protecting what was going on all the while telling me and everyone else that if you aren't happy with 8 win seasons at MSU you will never be happy in your life. That attitude HAS to change.

But it's really not about switching rosters- it's what would happen if MSU didn't miss on so many targets in recruiting? Not necessarily even the ones that went to Ole Miss- but MSU has lost several in state recruits to other schools as well like LSU, Alabama, Auburn, Arkansas, and etc. Simply adding 1-2 of those would have probably put MSU over the top against Ole Miss and probably helped us get at least one Sugar Bowl appearance, perhaps a better season than 6-7 in 2016 and who knows about this year. When I read that a recruit from Mississippi chose LSU simply because "LSU just seemed to want me more"- that tells me EVERYTHING that was wrong with MSU recruiting right there.

The good news is it CAN change- and without wholesale illegal recruiting. MSU women's basketball has a FAR worse history than MSU football and they have managed to recruit at a high level. The other sports at MSU recruit well. Our fans give football a pass because for some reason it has been ingrained that we can't do better than a Liberty Bowl and an Egg Bowl win. And therefore our last coach was given a pass he shouldn't have gotten and the whole program and fanbase suffered.

Somehow our fans HAVE TO get to the point where:

1. They have to understand that there is some merit to the star system.
2. We CAN recruit better- and wanting to do so does not mean wholesale cheating like Ole Miss. And be OK with that.
3. Be OK holding coaches and the athletic department accountable.
4. Understand that recruiting CAN BE a useful tool for promoting program perception and be OK with a player picking us with a hat party, at the Army/UA AAG, and etc. and not be worried about "but what will happen if they don't pan out"?

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Here ya go, buddy....

Averages (2015-2017): 247 Team Composite Ratings, SEC Reg. Season Wins/Yr, Overall Wins/Yr


TEAM RTG SEC OA
UA 93.05 7.33 13.67
LSU 90.28 5.33 8.67
UGA 89.82 5.33 10.33
AU 89.53 4.67 8.33
UF 87.59 5.33 7.67
UT 87.57 3.00 7.33
A&M 87.40 4.00 7.67
OM 87.04 3.67 7.00
SC 86.38 3.00 6.00
AR 85.99 3.00 6.33
KY 85.60 3.33 6.33
MSU 85.36 3.67 8.00
MO 84.78 2.33 5.33
VDY 83.94 2.00 5.00

I gotta big, giant spreadsheet thingy if y'all wanna sort, drill down some, etc, et al, yada, yada, yada...

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Originally Posted by TUSK

Here ya go, buddy....

Averages (2015-2017): 247 Team Composite Ratings, SEC Reg. Season Wins/Yr, Overall Wins/Yr


TEAM RTG SEC OA
UA 93.05 7.33 13.67
LSU 90.28 5.33 8.67
UGA 89.82 5.33 10.33
AU 89.53 4.67 8.33
UF 87.59 5.33 7.67
UT 87.57 3.00 7.33
A&M 87.40 4.00 7.67
OM 87.04 3.67 7.00
SC 86.38 3.00 6.00
AR 85.99 3.00 6.33
KY 85.60 3.33 6.33
MSU 85.36 3.67 8.00
MO 84.78 2.33 5.33
VDY 83.94 2.00 5.00

I gotta big, giant spreadsheet thingy if y'all wanna sort, drill down some, etc, et al, yada, yada, yada...

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Thank you! That pretty much proves my point. We were essentially recruiting at Kentucky level under Dan. I think the overall wins is a product of our scheduling more than anything.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Thank you! That pretty much proves my point. We were essentially recruiting at Kentucky level under Dan. I think the overall wins is a product of our scheduling more than anything.

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You're welcome.... if the numbers hadn't agreed with your synopsis, this thread coulda gone this way:

https://www.sportfishingmag.com/site...?itok=YMc4aM3X

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Thank you! That pretty much proves my point. We were essentially recruiting at Kentucky level under Dan. I think the overall wins is a product of our scheduling more than anything.

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Yeah, this was the biggest outlier I found... Suspect OOC scheduling was the cause, I think...

Anybody who thinks of roster has the talent our roster has does not understand football. Don?t take my word for it, look at nfl projections the next two years. Yet, according to recruiting rankings, they have signed more talent than us the last 5 years.

Also, tusk chart above proves my point. We have the same amount of sec wins and more overall wins despite much lower rankings. The truth is, they have not outrecruited us like so many people on here claim.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

I think it was pretty even those 2 years. I was just pointing out I think the losses were on danny boy more than them having more talent. We should?ve won in 14 and 15. But I agree both teams had similar talent

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We should've won in 2014, but they were just flat out better than us in 2015.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

Anybody who thinks of roster has the talent our roster has does not understand football. Don?t take my word for it, look at nfl projections the next two years. Yet, according to recruiting rankings, they have signed more talent than us the last 5 years.

Also, tusk chart above proves my point. We have the same amount of sec wins and more overall wins despite much lower rankings. The truth is, they have not outrecruited us like so many people on here claim.

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Dont say that. Results dont matter is what they are rated by a bunch of ''experts'' who never watch them play live or know anything about them other than a few buzzwords to say on signing day

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Originally Posted by sandwolf

We should've won in 2014, but they were just flat out better than us in 2015.

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I?m just still pissed we lost on Daks senior night.

Here?s something else to think about.. Based on tusks chart we have almost identical records in sec and overall as AM who on paper supposedly has way more talent.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

I?m just still pissed we lost on Daks senior night.

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Yea, that loss was really bad. The Egg Bowl on Dak's senior night with the Sugar Bowl on the line, and they absolutely skull drug us....the game was over with 10+ minutes left in the second quarter.

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Originally Posted by sandwolf

Yea, that loss was really bad. The Egg Bowl on Dak's senior night with the Sugar Bowl on the line, and they absolutely skull drug us....the game was over with 10+ minutes left in the second quarter.

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Yeah that ones gonna bug me til I die. Hate Dak had to go out like that. Winning the bowl game helped some. At least his very last game was a win. But dang to lose that one.

And with all the rumors of danny boy looking at other jobs during Egg Bowl week makes it even harder to swallow.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

Yeah that ones gonna bug me til I die. Hate Dak had to go out like that. Winning the bowl game helped some. At least his very last game was a win. But dang to lose that one.

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Thats what happens when your head coach had one foot out the door and his OL coach was such an insufferable asshole that we had to move a TE to LT cause we couldnt sign a decent O lineman

Here are my BASIC, low brow points:

Save the Hugh Freeze anomaly, recent recruiting by OM and MSU are fairly similar... OM has been fortunate to woo* some cats to campus that helped them steal a few, but also lose some they shouldn't... MSU, meanwhile, with less "high end talent" has been more consistent/conservative in not losing to many 'dogs, but not upsetting many of note, either...

Dig on this: Once you get below 5* & high 4* recruits and/or below the ~90 point range, the accuracy of such rankings is extremely volatile...

I'll rephrase: Accuracy of recruiting ranking is directly proportional to the rank...

I'm on about my 17th drink (SWIDT?), so, I dunno if I'm makin' any sense....

This thread is going around the world... reminds me of losing Paul gainer thread

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Originally Posted by TUSK

Here are my BASIC, low brow points:

Save the Hugh Freeze anomaly, recent recruiting by OM and MSU are fairly similar... OM has been fortunate to woo* some cats to campus that helped them steal a few, but also lose some they shouldn't... MSU, meanwhile, with less "high end talent" has been more consistent/conservative in not losing to many 'dogs, but not upsetting many of note, either...

Dig on this: Once you get below 5* & high 4* recruits and/or below the ~90 point range, the accuracy of such rankings is extremely volatile...

I'll rephrase: Accuracy of recruiting ranking is directly proportional to the rank...

I'm on about my 17th drink (SWIDT?), so, I dunno if I'm makin' any sense....

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I concur and I?m not drunk lol

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Originally Posted by msstate7

This thread is going around the world... reminds me of losing Paul gainer thread

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Dude you?re hitting on all cylinders tonight!