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There is going to be at least 2 "major" battles this season. The one at Winterfell will be the biggest in GOT history by about double judging by how long it was shot. Another one will be happening at Riverrun that according to shooting time should be pretty close to as big as Blackwater or the Battle of Castle Black. It's not looking to be a simply lifted siege there like in the books.
Since I haven't seen it discussed.....Is it now canon that Euron killed Balon? Because that's one of the big mysteries in the books and has spawned several fan theories. I'm a little surprised they made it so definitive for TV. They could've easily had the hooded guy just toss him over instead of having him reveal himself as Euron before tossing Balon off the bridge.
It's not canon. At least not that Euron did it personally. Show and book canon is too far diverged at this point and the stuff the show is doing is too simple/obvious for Martin
SPOILERS!Quote:
Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg
everything on the show has to be so simplified, it's frustrating to me. take John Snow's resurrection. we've theorized it will come from a human sacrifice to a weirwood tree, from Jon's warg powers with or without the assistance of Bran, from the kiss of life a la Beric, from walking out of a funeral pyre. and what do we get? Mel burning some hair and saying some words, and he just wakes up. LAME. at this point, i think we've seen the best of the white walkers. i bet now they just show up at the wall, and the dragons fly by and burn them. end scene.
Canon was a bad way to put it. I guess what I was getting at is are we surprised they had Euron do it instead of leaving it a mystery for a while? Obviously I'll always consider the books canon over the show. And I've been saying for ages I think that although we'll get to roughly the same endgame, how we get there in the show is going to be pretty different.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
I just hope we see what went down at the Tower of Joy tonight.
TOJ and FAKE RICKON(I hope)
Tower of Joy scene was a great fight scene but it pisses me off that the once again drag something out. Rickon looked real. Was that really Shaggy dog's head? The Umber's betraying Rickon would be up there with the Red Wedding unless the Umber's are kind of taking the place of the Manderlays in the book. I hope that Arya is done training because that is just boring. Still not a lot happening and I am getting worried that my standards for the show might be too high.
That was the real Rickon and Shaggy I believe...
Rickon gonna be on one of those pre-battle crosses I'm afraid.
SPOILERS!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
what happened at the TOJ? warg power, turn the ground to mud? nah, stab in the back. lame. Clegane reveal? nah, just everyone sort of knows already. lame. for a minute i thought they were gonna make the Harpy be the crying whore. that would have fit right in! Dawn? just a sun symbol on a sword, of which he had two for some reason. lame. Arya using warg power to win a blind fight? nah, just suddenly awesome for no reason. lame. Shaggydog? nah, dead. lame.
It's awesome and lame at the same time. it's like seeing the best movie ever made, but thru a peephole in the back, with all the best parts blurred out. it's like an edited porno.
John hanging the traitors and walking out like a boss was cool though.
It sound like you already have a mindset that it's going to suck, then when you watch it you think it sucks no matter what. I read the books. I think the story is much better. But, I know the show is going to be entirely different from the books now and I'm not going to let that affect my opinion of it. The show is freakin good.
Kind of the opposite. I do love the show, but it could be so much more. I don't know why they insist on leaving out the coolest parts though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Ruckus
I am ready to see what Arya is going to do. How is she going to affect Westeros. Tower of Joy scene was foreplay without the sex. It was great but I wanted the payout. I really don't understand the Umber's plan especially if they really killed Shaggy dog.
The Umbers are siding with Ramsey against Jon/the Starks because of the windings in the gift. That is their plan. They just handed away the biggest chess piece on the board -- and Rickon is the wildest of the Starks. He'd slaughter them for Shaggy. But he probably isn't getting the chance.
That would truly be disappointing if that is the way it plays out. Killing Shaggy Dog definitely makes it look like the Umbers have turned on the Starks. I guess the show is completely ignoring the Manderlays and the Freys now. Walder Frey is definitely not going to eat supper with Ramsey after the doggy dinner. I am slightly disappointed so far in this season. I hope the build up is worth it. We still don't truly know if R + L = J which pisses me off. We had an entire year of Arya becoming No one so now I expect something to happen. At least Jon is now alive and done with the Night's Watch so he can go do something besides wait at the wall. I am guessing he takes the wildlings against the Boltons, Karstarks, and now Umbers. Does Littlefinger rally the Vale to help at Winterfell?Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
Lannisters go after Dorne or do they siege the Riverlands? I have so many questions and the show seems to be dragging their feet for each. I don't know how Sam and Gilly will even affect the story. It isn't like Sam will do a montage and become a maester in a month. It took a full season for Arya to become no one so I don't see how Sam even factors into the show now. Enough venting, back to work.
We will be seeing Manderly and Frey this season
I'd say there's a chance that the Tarly's will come to Jon's aide. Jon, wildlings, Tarly's, maybe the Umbers, the Vale and/or Manderly's vs Boltons, Karstark's and Frey's. I'd say there's a good chance one to two of those houses fight against the Bolton's alliance.
Was it just me or did Shaggydog's head look awful small for a grown direwolf? I think in the books he was suppose to be the biggest of the wolves and that head looked about half the size of Greywinds who died at a much younger age. That's my only reason to think that the Umber's are not as they seem. Plus, the never swore fealty or bent the knee to Ramsey. If he did and betrayed him, he would be no better than Roose Bolton or Walder Frey. It's probably unlikely that if will play out this way but it wouldn't surprise me.
Tarly is probably taking all of the Tyrell forces to kings landing
I enjoyed the episode. I'm really hoping that's Fake Rickon, but I have my doubts. Killing Shaggy would have been a hell of a feat, especially considering he's supposed to be the wildest and most vicious of all the Stark direwolves. Also an interesting point that the Umbers made sure to never bow the knee in that sequence, instead letting their gifts do the persuading.
I'm wondering how long it's going to take Dany to convince the Dothraki to follow her. I'm guessing not much longer and Drogon will play an important role. He's not going to let them force Mother into being a crone for the rest of her life. Once she controls the Dothraki, they give her an automatic huge, aggressive calvary to go with the Unsullied and the dragons. Put 'em on boats, sail to Westeros, conquer everyone just in time for the big fight with the Others/Walkers.
TOJ was a bit of a letdown to me. Even though seeing Ser Arthur Dayne be a badass was cool, it really didn't tell us anything we didn't already know or couldn't guess. And I was disappointed Dawn wasn't more special.
Arya's training is just dragging on and on. One of those books are better than TV things. As for BoomBoom complaining how she suddenly starts winning out of nowhere, it's hard to get a sense of time with her segments. It looked like it wasn't that long, but her blindness training lasted several weeks in the book. The Faceless Men were training her to use all of her other senses. It took her a long time to figure out how to cope without her sight, listen for cues when an attack was coming, anticipate it, etc. So while it may have looked like it just all of a sudden happened, it actually took time and work. Still, her story just isn't moving very fast.
I'm wondering just how much of Jon is back. Remember what Berrick Dondarrion told Catlyn: Every time I come back, I'm a little less. Jon seems a bit colder and more ruthless now, although you could certainly choose to attribute it to dying at the hands of traitors. Love how he exploits the death loophole with his service to the Watch. He's going to crush the Boltons and their alliance. Gotta wonder how his new focus on family vengeance will affect the long term plan to fight the Others, though. He was the only guy preparing for the REAL fight. Maybe Melisandre, Davos, Edd, etc. will talk sense into him?
So many questions, so few answers. Still hoping we'll see more TOJ later in the season to confirm/deny what we all suspect with Jon.
One comparison i saw online was to the Star Wars prequels. You're hyped for it, it's visually beautiful and seems to deliver.......but somehow underwhelms. i actually have loved every episode this season, but as soon as i reflect on it, it pales quickly, not from what was there but from what was missing. it's like dating the most beautiful girl in the world but not getting to put it in. it's wonderful......but still. they are teasing us and not delivering the money shot, over and over again. teasing us with heavy action that's awesome, but in the end leaving us with nerd blue balls.
i do wonder if the Umbers will be playing the part of the Manderlys. another example of the show writing itself into a corner by not introducing that plotline earlier. because God forbid you plan ahead.
definitely the real Rickon, it's clearly the same actor. he looks exactly the same, unlike the actor playing Bran.
notable that the head crone dropped that all Khals are coming to Vaes Dothrak for a meeting. easy way for Dany to bend them all to her courtesy of Drogon.
if Dawn doesn't have a part to play (which in the show it clearly won't), then i'm fine with that choice. but the stab in the back was lame. i can tell you the thought process: that scene needs to be shown now, but we're not ready to show Howland as having magic powers........so just delete them.
Arya's training scene was just badly directed. it came off as she just willed herself to win that fight. there was no conveyance of her other skills being sharpened to Daredevil levels. and of course they had to drop the warg powers because they avoided all the build up to it, including Nymeria and her pack. again, not planning ahead. even more frustrating when you consider all the dumb scenes like the Beetle crushing Lannister or Missande and Grey Worm that they went with instead.
was Robb's will even mentioned in the show?
i think the other half of the TOJ scene will be in 2 weeks, based on the summary descriptions of the episodes.
This is exactly how I feel. I love watching the show but after it is over I am disappointed with what is left out. I am ready for some type of payoff. Watch the SNL skit of bringing Jon Snow back to life. They are making fun of the fact they spent 10 minutes washing the blood off and then chanting a couple of times. It was definitely underwhelming.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoom
Quote:
Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg
"He stabbed him in the back?!?"
What a punk ass way to kill off a character like that. Not surprised though seeing how they killed off Barriston with the f'n sons of the harpy.
If I had to guess they'll probably go back to the toj in episode 10.
Looks like they're swapping out fake arya(in the books) for rickon. Wonder if they'll kill him off right before the big battle
Going back to TOJ in 2 weeks.
There is a reason Ned never talked about it. How did you think he was going to off Arthur Dayne? "If not for Howland Reed"...
This is also the reason that everyone thinks R + L = J. There is no way Dayne is just standing around a tower to make sure nobody comes and gets the girl he kidnapped and raped. Ned said it himself, "Why are you here when your prince died at the Neck?". I think GRRM originally thought he had a great twist but he has taken so damn long that people eventually figured it out. Now he is trying to think of a new twist no one has thought of which is dragging the books out.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
I think he's just expanded the story to such a huge scale that he's having a very hard time bringing it all back together for a satisfactory ending.
I agree with this. I don't know how Dorne will fit into what is happening now. The show neutered the best part of that storyline by making the prince a dimwit. I guess Dany could get their support because she is a woman? The sand snakes acted like they didn't want another man to rule even though all of this came about because of revenge for Oberan. That whole part of the show is just a boring mess other than Bron flirting with one of the sand snakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
Speaking of, we haven't even seen him this season that I can remember.
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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
Since this isn't in the books I'll discuss it. I'm sure those of you watching will confirm when and if they show that storyline again. I think the sand snake that hugged up on Bron as they were leaving gave him the antidote and Myrcella will be saved. We didn't really see her breathe her last and that almost never means the character is really dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Ruckus
That part has been resolved...
The show definitely missed the essence of the Dorne story, much like they missed the essence of Stannis in the end, Roose Bolton in the end, etc...
Roose as I know him is holed up in the dreadfort while Stannis slaughters Ramsey like a rabid dog and takes winterfell just in time for the real war to begin. "Bastard's boys are really Roose's men"....
I get the reason you quit watching this year, but IMO it's misguided. The entities have diverged too much between the books and show to even be considered the same thing. The show might spoil the ending, but it is not spoiling the essence...
It has been so long now since I read the books that I probably need to reread them. If Jon is the prince that was promised then he has to get Lightbringer some where. Several shows in and no mention of the white walkers. Bran has a vision at some point where the Night's King is there so it is coming. Arya is finally done with training hopefully so maybe we get a clue what the Faceless men want and what their angle is. They have to factor into the endgame somehow.
Road to cleganebowl starts tonight IMO.
Best episode of the year. I am disappointed in the Umbers being traitors though. It sucks how the wildling went down. I am glad Dany's trip paid off.
I agree. The fire scene totally reasserted the greatness of the show. Wondering about A Girl. Wish the episodes were longer, of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
I am ready to see how Arya factors in to the grand scheme of things. Dany now has her army so I bet she is about to break all the chains, not sure if the masters are going to get 7 years. The Red Priestess said she saw Jon at Winterfell so it looks like the Wildlings and the Vale and probably the Manderlays go against the Boltons, Karstarks, and the pos Umbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkernhelldawg
I am looking forward to Bran's next vision since it looks like he gets insight into the white walkers. This season is getting good.
Ep 9 or ep 10 on Arya....
The Chekhov gun is gonna go off