Applewhite to Transfer

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Originally Posted by engie

Yep, I was wrong.

This team got "figured out" after a couple of weeks in SEC play and never adjusted. I overestimated how well we were compensating for only having one big.

I would have been wrong on Cohen in year 2 when we won the first SEC series as well. Would have bet we won 12-14 and made a regional at that point.

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Engie, us losing had less to do with only having one big and more to do with we can't throw it in the ****ing ocean. That and our defensive effort over this longest losing streak these eyes remember has been pathetic. We have given up more layups and uncontested shots and put backs it's embarrassing. That has to do with the lack of a big for sure and depth to an extent but also effort. The guys don't give up but those easy buckets are signs of lack of focus and effort. It's almost over. We have 2 more games left, then we will see if there will be any transfers and actually get some freshmen in for next year that will hopefully be able to see the court for us. And hopefully with more experience and more depth comes more wins.

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Originally Posted by whosyourdawgy

Engie, us losing had less to do with only having one big and more to do with we can't throw it in the ****ing ocean. That and our defensive effort over this longest losing streak these eyes remember has been pathetic. We have given up more layups and uncontested shots and put backs it's embarrassing. That has to do with the lack of a big for sure and depth to an extent but also effort. The guys don't give up but those easy buckets are signs of lack of focus and effort. It's almost over. We have 2 more games left, then we will see if there will be any transfers and actually get some freshmen in for next year that will hopefully be able to see the court for us. And hopefully with more experience and more depth comes more wins.

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Agreed on all this.

It's really easy to get disheartened in the situation this team is in right now. It certainly happened in year 2 under Cohen.

I'm just giving Ray a clean slate for next year. And he will get no free pass from me from the very first tip of next season. At that point, it is ALL on him...

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

1st day back. "I seen it" banned me for a month. Notice in this thread the language engie used whereas I was restrained. Other than saying he rode the shortbus, but as far as I know that was fact not opinion.

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I hit the wrong button. Surely I meant more time.

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Originally Posted by engie

Agreed on all this.

It's really easy to get disheartened in the situation this team is in right now. It certainly happened in year 2 under Cohen.

I'm just giving Ray a clean slate for next year. And he will get no free pass from me from the very first tip of next season. At that point, it is ALL on him...

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I hope you are right Engie. I hope you are right. I just want to get back to where we consistently win 20 games again and are not setting losing streak records. These two years have been heck for an MSU basketball fan and we haven't seen this type of futility since most of the posters have been born. Personally, I hope you and Coach are able to say I told you so. I am so tired of losing in the one sport I love the most.

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully01

I hope you are right Engie. I hope you are right. I just want to get back to where we consistently win 20 games again and are not setting losing streak records. These two years have been heck for an MSU basketball fan and we haven't seen this type of futility since most of the posters have been born. Personally, I hope you and Coach are able to say I told you so. I am so tired of losing in the one sport I love the most.

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If we aren't knocking on the door to the 20 win plateau and an NIT berth next year -- coach and I will be the loudest ones beating the drum that we need to go in another direction. It's simply premature at this point.

Next year is and should be a clean slate. If he botches it like he has down the stretch in both of these first 2 years -- I'll be ready to go another direction just like everyone else.

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Originally Posted by engie

If we aren't knocking on the door to the 20 win plateau and an NIT berth next year -- coach and I will be the loudest ones beating the drum that we need to go in another direction. It's simply premature at this point.

Next year is and should be a clean slate. If he botches it like he has down the stretch in both of these first 2 years -- I'll be ready to go another direction just like everyone else.

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If 20 wins and NIT is acceptable for Rick Ray (just sniffing - take this to mean 18 wins and no postseason) then why in the hell was it not acceptable for Stansbury?

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Originally Posted by TheDogFather

If 20 wins and NIT is acceptable for Rick Ray (just sniffing - take this to mean 18 wins and no postseason) then why in the hell was it not acceptable for Stansbury?

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15 years, or however long Stans was the coach, with teams that are exclusively your players is vastly different than year 3 of a rebuild. It's really not a hard concept to grasp.

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Originally Posted by TheDogFather

If 20 wins and NIT is acceptable for Rick Ray (just sniffing - take this to mean 18 wins and no postseason) then why in the hell was it not acceptable for Stansbury?

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Because we have a different standard now. "Competing for an NIT birth" is now the standard of a good team.

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Originally Posted by NewTweederEndzoneDance

15 years, or however long Stans was the coach, with teams that are exclusively your players is vastly different than year 3 of a rebuild. It's really not a hard concept to grasp.

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Apparently it is

No one is going to accept "competing for an NIT birth (sic)" as a goal for long. But right now, that would show marked improvement, like moving up from the 9th circle of hell all the way up to Limbo.

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Originally Posted by MadDawg

Because we have a different standard now. "Competing for an NIT birth" is now the standard of a good team.

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No it isn't. It's a standard for marked improvement showing a team is going in the right direction and earning the coach year 4 to get us back to where we feel we should be.

If we aren't in the NIT next year -- I'm out.
If we aren't in the NCAA's in year 4 -- I'm out.

It's the simplest thing in the world to understand if you aren't so busy forming conspiracy theories about double standards that don't actually exist.

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Originally Posted by TheDogFather

If 20 wins and NIT is acceptable for Rick Ray (just sniffing - take this to mean 18 wins and no postseason) then why in the hell was it not acceptable for Stansbury?

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i'm definitely not really on the ray-train and have been very vocal about my position opposite engie/C34, but this is a dumb argument to even begin to try making.

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Originally Posted by MabenMaroon

Over 400 in DI so far this year

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Ex-****ing-actly my point when blaming ray for the roster issues. Transfers are flying around out there like ones at a strip club, yet Ray can't find a single ****ing one? This is who Strick thought would turn us around?

I'm assuming Applewhite sees the writing on the wall for his career of he stays in Starkville and he'd rather win some games against more than just the handicap teams

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Apparently it is

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Because we all know a good coach will improve every year regardless of tenure. Apparently.

Can't wait til Ray has been here 10 years. We should have a couple NCAAs by then.

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Originally Posted by TheDogFather

Because we all know a good coach will improve every year regardless of tenure. Apparently.

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This is not the point. No one is saying that Stans had to go because he didn't keep improving every year. It's that after 15 years, you pretty much know what you have. Sure, you can slip up here and there...it happens. But we weren't slipping up anymore; we just were what we were - which was a decent program who had no real hopes of anything greater.

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Can't wait til Ray has been here 10 years. We should have a couple NCAAs by then.

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What did Stans have, 2 in his last 7? Which is exactly the point you're trying to argue against. Stans had been here 14 years and only went to 2 NCAA Tournaments in his last 7, and one of those we snuck in after winning the SEC Tournament; we weren't really even a tournament team that year.

So for the last half of his tenure, Stans had one true Tournament team. Yet you're claiming that was too much success to fire him while blasting Ray for guessing he'll have similar success.

Whose bright idea was it to revive this thread?

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Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew

So apparently Applewhite wanted a bigger role in the offense. Not sure what you say about that except good luck finding it.

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You sure he didn't say "an offense" instead of "the offense"? That seems much more plausible.

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Originally Posted by TheRef

Whose bright idea was it to revive this thread?

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I was pretty much wondering the same thing.

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Originally Posted by TheRef

Whose bright idea was it to revive this thread?

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Hoopsdawg has been waiting a month to do it.

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Originally Posted by I seen it dawg

Hoopsdawg has been waiting a month to do it.

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I'm just doing what I was told. Engie told me to bump it and tell him he was wrong. And he was.