Howland

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Calipari took umass to the championship game. We've had 2 big time 5*s in Malik and sidney, yet we couldn't get anything out of them. I think you really slight calipari as a coach

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That's because neither of those 5* kids really had 5 star ability. Partially due to attitude and partially due to talent. They don't always live up to the hype. John Wooden himself couldn't get Sidney to the NBA, and while Malik has some tools he is going to peak out as maybe a decent college two guard. He isn't going to sniff the league.

And that is two guys in what, 20 years? We've gotten half as many 5 star players in two decades as UK gets in a single recruiting class. Think about that.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

He's taken three different schools to the final four. Has anyone else ever done that?

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Pitino

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

What team would you like to describe it as when you bring in 8 freshman?

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Every team in the country who found themselves in the personnel situation we did last year? SMU brought in a bigger recruiting class than us a few years ago. We went and recruited the best players we could recruit to fill the open spots we had...just like every program in America does.

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Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew

Pitino

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Ok a top 5 all-time college coach. Seems like Calipari is in elite company.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Ok a top 5 all-time college coach. Seems like Calipari is in elite company.

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I said Cal was a good coach. Was this directed at me or someone else?

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

What team would you like to describe it as when you bring in 8 freshman? That's what I meant not that we brought in 8 McDonald's All-Americans like Kentucky but that we brought in 8 freshman like Kentucky. I called it the Kentucky recruiting model because that's the closest thing to describe what we have done even though Kentucky still brings in 8 NBA players and we don't. Should I call it the Donnie Tyndall Tennessee plan instead? You're nitpicking a detail that isn't the point of the thread to get the wording perfect for something that can't be described perfectly.

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So, should Howland have only brought in only 4 freshman like most schools do? Oh, wait, then we wouldn't have a full roster. You hate that too if I remember correctly. Should have left spots for some Sanderson Center All-Stars!!! We have 8 freshman because we cut dead weight and are rebuilding a program.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Calipari took umass to the championship game. We've had 2 big time 5*s in Malik and sidney, yet we couldn't get anything out of them. I think you really slight calipari as a coach

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That team also had Marcus Camby and vacated all their wins.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

He's taken three different schools to the final four. Has anyone else ever done that?

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The guy recruits like mad no matter where he goes. No one has ever disputed that.

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Originally Posted by smootness

Every team in the country who found themselves in the personnel situation we did last year? SMU brought in a bigger recruiting class than us a few years ago. We went and recruited the best players we could recruit to fill the open spots we had...just like every program in America does.

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Sure just for you smoot we'll call it the "every team in the country who found themselves in the personnel situation we did last year plan" instead of the "Kentucky plan". Seems wordy but you like it better so I am willing to appease you.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Sure just for you smoot we'll call it the "every team in the country who found themselves in the personnel situation we did last year plan" instead of the "Kentucky plan". Seems wordy but you like it better so I am willing to appease you.

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Thanks, bro

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

So, should Howland have only brought in only 4 freshman like most schools do? Oh, wait, then we wouldn't have a full roster. You hate that too if I remember correctly. Should have left spots for some Sanderson Center All-Stars!!! We have 8 freshman because we cut dead weight and are rebuilding a program.

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No he needs to get on their asses and the refs asses too. That's my point. I like our 8 freshman I just wish Howland brought his sac with him from UCLA instead of leaving it there when he got fired.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Sure just for you smoot we'll call it the "every team in the country who found themselves in the personnel situation we did last year plan" instead of the "Kentucky plan". Seems wordy but you like it better so I am willing to appease you.

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This is where the wording comes into play. It's the Kentucky plan because every year they're replacing 4-6 players to the NBA draft so it's necessary for them to have tons of freshmen each year. MSU just had a weird scenario where we had 6 Sr on our roster last year. That won't be the norm of having a class that huge nor having 11 of 12 players on the roster underclassmen. Last year was the anomaly not the norm whereas Kentucky does this every year because they run through 1 & done guys yearly. That's where the confusion of the Kentucky plan is coming from.

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Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew

I think Cal is a good coach but he took UMASS to the Final 4 with the best player in the country on his team. He didn't have a bunch of scrubs.

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Lsu had the best player in the country last year

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Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew

I said Cal was a good coach. Was this directed at me or someone else?

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Lots of good coaches out there. I don't think the only other guy besides Rick Pitino to take 3 different schools to a final four should get lumped in with all the other good coaches. Calipari is a great coach. End. Of. Story. Howland could learn something from him by how he handles all his freshman every year. Again my point of the thread.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Lsu had the best player in the country last year

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Not really. Hield and Valentine at least were better players than Simmons last year.

Also, Johnny Jones suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks.

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Originally Posted by smootness

Also, Johnny Jones suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks.

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So, you're saying it takes a good coach too? Haha

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Lots of good coaches out there. I don't think the only other guy besides Rick Pitino to take 3 different schools to a final four should get lumped in with all the other good coaches. Calipari is a great coach. End. Of. Story. Howland could learn something from him by how he handles all his freshman every year. Again my point of the thread.

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Howland is the only other guy besides Coach K to make 3 straight Final Fours since it expanded to 64. Guess Calipari could learn something from Howland.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

So, you're saying it takes a good coach too? Haha

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I'm not trying to argue that Calipari is a bad coach. I'm trying to argue that as a pure coach, or teacher of the game, he isn't elite. He is an elite recruiter/amasser of talent, and that is not me trying to knock him. Sure, a bunch of his programs have had NCAA issues, but regardless, if you want to have talent come through your program and win games, he is a phenomenal choice. But Dawg61 is specifically lauding him for his handling of players and ability to get the most out of his guys, and I don't think he's the best around at that.

And Johnny Jones is a special kind of suck. It shouldn't be difficult to make the Tournament with Ben Simmons.

Think about this: make a list of all the guys who have played for him who have had lengthy, excellent NBA careers. Now think about the fact that 5 coaches have won multiple titles since he's been a college coach, and he's not one of them. Guys like Tubby Smith, Jay Wright, Kevin Ollie, Jim Harrick, and Gary Williams have the same number of titles.

Unbelievable recruiter, good coach.

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Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew

This is where the wording comes into play. It's the Kentucky plan because every year they're replacing 4-6 players to the NBA draft so it's necessary for them to have tons of freshmen each year. MSU just had a weird scenario where we had 6 Sr on our roster last year. That won't be the norm of having a class that huge nor having 11 of 12 players on the roster underclassmen. Last year was the anomaly not the norm whereas Kentucky does this every year because they run through 1 & done guys yearly. That's where the confusion of the Kentucky plan is coming from.

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Good point but I don't think our turnover is completely done till the start of next year just yet

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Lots of good coaches out there. I don't think the only other guy besides Rick Pitino to take 3 different schools to a final four should get lumped in with all the other good coaches. Calipari is a great coach. End. Of. Story. Howland could learn something from him by how he handles all his freshman every year. Again my point of the thread.

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He's a great coach when you take into account his recruiting ability which is second to none (albeit bolstered by his Nike /AAU connections). However, as a gameday / floor coach he is average. And because of that, there's no way you can put him up with the all time elites like Wooden, Coach K, Dean Smith, Pitino, etc.