And just like that- we are tied for 7th in the SEC at the halfway point

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Originally Posted by engie

^ insanity. So you think we are a coach away from being a perennial top 5 team? This coach can convince these NATIONAL kids to come here -- to a non-elite academic institution -- for 1/4 of the scholarship money -- and a future making half as much money on average if they get their degree and enter the real world -- not in Nashville or Florida -- but in Starkville, Ms -- and forego the first few rounds of MLB -- to pay 70% of their own way in school? Because we've got a bunch of drunks cooking them hamburgers and ringing bells in the outfield? Not just one or two of these kids -- but entire rosters made up of these elite kids like O'Sullivan has -- that have to fly over 3-4 much superior academic AND baseball institutions in order to come here?

Our fans can't tell the difference between non-traditional and non-elite -- and I'm not going to the trouble trying to explain it again. Literally took one SEC series to be back in the Fahr Coinz conversation. Our first true series loss on the year, by the way. Because that's what any talk of another coach entails. We ran into a buzz saw that got big hits in every situation this weekend. It happens in baseball. It's just funny that people only comment on the non-traditional when it fails. Not even noticing all of the times that it succeeds.

All while constantly moving the goalposts on what they think a season/team is and should be. How many of you called for this team to host in the preseason? Show of hands. That's what I thought. It's ahead of where 95% of you thought it would be. But Cohen only gets credit for setting it back -- not making it better? Sounds fair**

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Exactly, UF sits right in the middle of probably the best baseball state in the country. Within 2 -3 hours of Gainsville you have Tampa, Orlando, Bradenton, Miami and a list of other great baseball hotbeds. That should be the easiest job in college baseball. You have a host of minor league teams and spring training facilities which also equates to more professional scouts in the area. As a player you have the option to stay 2-3 hours from home, play with the best talent college baseball has to offer, and be seen just about everytime you play. You also more than likely get to go to school for free if you have decent grades coming out of highschool. This isn't even bringing in the fact that some of the best JUCO baseball programs in the country are in Florida. You have Chipola, Santa Fe CC, Miami Dade JC, St. Johns River CC, and a host of others to pull a guy here and there from.
All of these also benefit Texas A and M with a huge talent pool to pull from and great JUCOS.
Yes, we have a decent JUCO system here but not near what Texas and Florida have to offer nor do we have the elite highschool talent comparable to Florida or Texas. We have a few kids every year that are draft guys but not the numbers necessary to fill an entire roster with.
It is going to take a good mix of guys for us to consistently be considered elite. All in all, I don't know if it is possible for us to field a World Series team every single year when we don't have the talent pool in our backyard to pull from. Everything is not Cohen's fault I assure you. Now getting swept in your backyard on Super Bulldog weekend does suck and should not happen often but A&M was hot and we did not play our best ball. We are still fairly young especially on the mound and we are going to have weekends where it doesn't click. We have to have quality starts from Hudson and Sexton every time they step on the mound against teams like that to have a chance to win the series.

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Originally Posted by engie

^ insanity. So you think we are a coach away from being a perennial top 5 team? This coach can convince these NATIONAL kids to come here -- to a non-elite academic institution -- for 1/4 of the scholarship money -- and a future making half as much money on average if they get their degree and enter the real world -- not in Nashville or Florida -- but in Starkville, Ms -- and forego the first few rounds of MLB -- to pay 70% of their own way in school? Because we've got a bunch of drunks cooking them hamburgers and ringing bells in the outfield? Not just one or two of these kids -- but entire rosters made up of these elite kids like O'Sullivan has -- that have to fly over 3-4 much superior academic AND baseball institutions in order to come here?

Our fans can't tell the difference between non-traditional and non-elite -- and I'm not going to the trouble trying to explain it again. Literally took one SEC series to be back in the Fahr Coinz conversation. Our first true series loss on the year, by the way. Because that's what any talk of another coach entails. We ran into a buzz saw that got big hits in every situation this weekend. It happens in baseball. It's just funny that people only comment on the non-traditional when it fails. Not even noticing all of the times that it succeeds.

All while constantly moving the goalposts on what they think a season/team is and should be. How many of you called for this team to host in the preseason? Show of hands. That's what I thought. It's ahead of where 95% of you thought it would be. But Cohen only gets credit for setting it back -- not making it better? Sounds fair**

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Damn, that left a shit trail.

Doubt we'll see Marketingbully again in this thread.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Fabricate much? You just claimed I said things that weren't even in my post you quoted. Thanks for setting the record straight though, Mr. All Knowing. I'm sure everyone else is as shocked as I am to see you chime with a know-it-all attitude and a twisting of words.

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Maybe not in the post I quoted -- but I don't have to look far back to see where you have said many of those things. You were as far in the negativity of this program in the preseason/early season as anyone. Now it's a whole different thing. My apologies if I'm struggling to keep up on the roller coaster ride that changes week-to-week and is always all-encompassing toward the big picture.

"Potential national power program in baseball". Name an actual national power program in baseball that faces the disadvantages we face?

Calling for a new coach is silly. Cohen is a tremendous recruiter and a decent coach. He will always get enough talent on campus to make us a competitive threat in the tough SEC. That's almost the best we can ask for with scholly limitations, which is why I'm resetting and lowering my expectations. The only way we do better is to find a coach that recruits as well or better than Cohen while also being a lights out in-game coach...but there are not many of those out there. So we would likely end up in a bad spot if we got rid of Cohen. Hell, there's no need to anyway considering how he's overachieved this year so far.

We just need to lower expectations...or I do anyway. It sucks, bc the scholly' are what keeps us from being able to recruit enough talent to overcome John's in-game deficiencies. I truly think he recruits well enough to keep us Top 16 and in the hosting discussion each year, but his poor decision making and meddling always keeps even our current talent from maximizing potential. String together a few more 2015 style classes and we may overcome it, but I'm not sure. He meddles too much. Will still keep us relevant though, despite a very sub .500 SEC record overall.

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Originally Posted by engie

Maybe not in the post I quoted -- but I don't have to look far back to see where you have said many of those things. You were as far in the negativity of this program in the preseason/early season as anyone. Now it's a whole different thing. My apologies if I'm struggling to keep up on the roller coaster ride that changes week-to-week and is always all-encompassing toward the big picture.

"Potential national power program in baseball". Name an actual national power program in baseball that faces the disadvantages we face?

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LULz

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Originally Posted by BB30

Exactly, UF sits right in the middle of probably the best baseball state in the country. Within 2 -3 hours of Gainsville you have Tampa, Orlando, Bradenton, Miami and a list of other great baseball hotbeds. That should be the easiest job in college baseball. You have a host of minor league teams and spring training facilities which also equates to more professional scouts in the area. As a player you have the option to stay 2-3 hours from home, play with the best talent college baseball has to offer, and be seen just about everytime you play. You also more than likely get to go to school for free if you have decent grades coming out of highschool. This isn't even bringing in the fact that some of the best JUCO baseball programs in the country are in Florida. You have Chipola, Santa Fe CC, Miami Dade JC, St. Johns River CC, and a host of others to pull a guy here and there from.
All of these also benefit Texas A and M with a huge talent pool to pull from and great JUCOS.
Yes, we have a decent JUCO system here but not near what Texas and Florida have to offer nor do we have the elite highschool talent comparable to Florida or Texas. We have a few kids every year that are draft guys but not the numbers necessary to fill an entire roster with.
It is going to take a good mix of guys for us to consistently be considered elite. All in all, I don't know if it is possible for us to field a World Series team every single year when we don't have the talent pool in our backyard to pull from. Everything is not Cohen's fault I assure you. Now getting swept in your backyard on Super Bulldog weekend does suck and should not happen often but A&M was hot and we did not play our best ball. We are still fairly young especially on the mound and we are going to have weekends where it doesn't click. We have to have quality starts from Hudson and Sexton every time they step on the mound against teams like that to have a chance to win the series.

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Great post. Agreed on all.

Also should be noted -- the average degree from UF is worth ~ $120-150k more over the working life of an individual than the average degree from MSU. A gap that is actually a lot narrower than I thought it was. A Vanderbilt degree on the other hand is worth about an extra $12-15k out of the gate. A number that swells to well over a half million dollars over a working lifetime.

This stuff might not matter as much in football and basketball in general terms -- but it's stuff that many baseball families which are going to share in footing the bill to go to school(at MSU anyway) -- is going to look at.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Calling for a new coach is silly. Cohen is a tremendous recruiter and a decent coach. He will always get enough talent on campus to make us a competitive threat in the tough SEC. That's almost the best we can ask for with scholly limitations, which is why I'm resetting and lowering my expectations. The only way we do better is to find a coach that recruits as well or better than Cohen while also being a lights out in-game coach...but there are not many of those out there. So we would likely end up in a bad spot if we got rid of Cohen. Hell, there's no need to anyway considering how he's overachieved this year so far.

We just need to lower expectations...or I do anyway. It sucks, bc the scholly' are what keeps us from being able to recruit enough talent to overcome John's in-game deficiencies. I truly think he recruits well enough to keep us Top 16 and in the hosting discussion each year, but his poor decision making and meddling always keeps even our current talent from maximizing potential. String together a few more 2015 style classes and we may overcome it, but I'm not sure. He meddles too much. Will still keep us relevant though, despite a very sub .500 SEC record overall.

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If he consistently underachieves during the regular season, I'd say his overachievement in the postseason makes up for it.

2011: won a regional on the road, nearly got to Omaha with a Top 32 team (2 seed)
2012: finished about where we should have but also won the SECT
2013: finished top 2 when the team was top 16 regular season
2014: nearly beat the overall #1 seed in their regional

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Originally Posted by engie

Maybe not in the post I quoted -- but I don't have to look far back to see where you have said many of those things. You were as far in the negativity of this program in the preseason/early season as anyone. Now it's a whole different thing. My apologies if I'm struggling to keep up on the roller coaster ride that changes week-to-week and is always all-encompassing toward the big picture.

"Potential national power program in baseball". Name an actual national power program in baseball that faces the disadvantages we face?

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I would think Oregon State would be the closest? Corvallis sucks big time.

We were a 3 seed in 2011. USM was the 2.

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Originally Posted by engie

Great post. Agreed on all.

Also should be noted -- the average degree from UF is worth ~ $120-150k more over the working life of an individual than the average degree from MSU. A gap that is actually a lot narrower than I thought it was. A Vanderbilt degree on the other hand is worth about an extra $12-15k out of the gate. A number that swells to well over a half million dollars over a working lifetime.

This stuff might not matter as much in football and basketball in general terms -- but it's stuff that many baseball families which are going to share in footing the bill to go to school(at MSU anyway) -- is going to look at.

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In the case of Florida vs MSU average that 120-150k is probably just the difference in working in Florida and working in Mississippi. That's honestly not even much of a gap...that is surprising.

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Originally Posted by Eric Nies Grind Time

I would think Oregon State would be the closest? Corvallis sucks big time.

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That would be a pretty fair comparison.
Oregon State/Mississippi State
Current RPI #44/#17
2015 #40/#132
2014 #14/#27
2013 #4/#8
2012 #25/#19
2011 #22/#16

Very comparable overall in what can fairly be called the "Cohen tenure" outside of the anomaly that was last season.

Both only been to 1 CWS since 07. Took Pat Casey 11 years there to make his first regional but has only missed once in the past 11. His recruiting class in 2005 has to go down as one of the best there has been in college baseball. Class of winners that brought home two titles and went to 3 cws against long odds. Pretty sure the first championship year they lost the first game at every level of the postseason and then won out of the loser's bracket each time. I think our freshman class has potential to carry us a long way over the next 3 years, but I really needed to see more "it" factor from the pitchers though. They've been just as star struck as any group we've brought in, while the position players have been a whole different breed. I'm expecting the light to cut on for one or two of them late in the season and ratchet up how far this team can go another notch though.

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Originally Posted by Eric Nies Grind Time

I would think Oregon State would be the closest? Corvallis sucks big time.

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I wouldn't think Virginia has any advantage over us except for what your degree is "worth". Not sure how much this matters in the grand scheme of things but after our stadium is built we will have the best facilities in the country.

While we do have some built-in excuses vs other programs, we beat some of those teams this year on the road. Looks like we're resorting to excuses bc we got our clocks cleaned at home... I'd rather just say we crap the bed and deal with circumstances as they are rather than start making excuses

As a reality check to the "fire cohenz" crowd, I'd just like to give a friendly reminder that we finished dead ****ing last in the SEC last year. We won 8 damn SEC games, a total that we have already matched this year. Quite frankly, this team had light years to go from last year to even get to be a respectable regional 3 seed this year, and here we are with 5 weeks to go talking about what we need to do to host. I'm as disappointed as the next guy about this past weekend, and would hate it if we eventually can't host in part because of it, but lets keep things in perspective. Some fans in their minds just set up Cohen to fail this year with their expectations. Going from last place in the SEC to a national seed or regional host over one season pretty much never happens, and can't be reasonably expected from any coach.

I never wanted Cohen to fail- I just hate the way he over coaches. I spent years defending him against the Polk crew because they didn't want to admit the hole Polk left us in. He answered the bell this year- so it will continue to be his job. Still doesn't mean that he doesn't do some stupid shit that costs us.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

I never wanted Cohen to fail- I just hate the way he over coaches. I spent years defending him against the Polk crew because they didn't want to admit the hole Polk left us in. He answered the bell this year- so it will continue to be his job. Still doesn't mean that he doesn't do some stupid shit that costs us.

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We got killed in the 8th and 9th innings. That has to the coaches fault. The team lost focus and it's coaches job to keep them focused.

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Originally Posted by Jack Lambert

We got killed in the 8th and 9th innings. That has to the coaches fault. The team lost focus and it's coaches job to keep them focused.

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The simpler explanation is that our back end pitching is just not very good, which its not. Humphreys is decent but even he got knocked around yesterday. Outside of Hudson, Sexton and Rigby, there is really not a pitcher we have that you can send to the mound and not be fearful they will implode.

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

I wouldn't think Virginia has any advantage over us except for what your degree is "worth". Not sure how much this matters in the grand scheme of things but after our stadium is built we will have the best facilities in the country.

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Virginia is the best public school in the country arguably. In one of the best towns on the east coast, one of the richer states around, and with unlimited endowed scholarship money to go around for baseball players who are "leaders" or with decent academics. It's tantamount to saying that you don't see how North Carolina has any real advantage over us in baseball. The state of Virginia produced 43 MLB draftees last year with one legit baseball program in the state and one that's clawing to become relevant in Va Tech. The state of MS produced 23 with 3 legit baseball programs in the state. There is your primary difference.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

While we do have some built-in excuses vs other programs, we beat some of those teams this year on the road. Looks like we're resorting to excuses bc we got our clocks cleaned at home... I'd rather just say we crap the bed and deal with circumstances as they are rather than start making excuses

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No one is making excuses. We are trying to give a reality check. Something our fanbase seems to have lost a long time ago in baseball. The fact that we are where we are is very telling to just how good of job our coaching staff has done this year. Yet they are presented as blind squirrels occasionally finding a nut. The assumption that we can go out and cherrypick the next greatest coach in college baseball if we were to fire the ones we have with what they have accomplished seems ridiculous. It's not an easy place to win. Part of what Polk got right in his rant. The cards aren't stacked in our favor. I'd imagine if a neutral party were to rank the SEC baseball jobs -- we would be 4th or 5th in the west right now. That's just our own division. It's a nationally elite fanbase but not a nationally elite job.

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Originally Posted by engie

No one is making excuses. We are trying to give a reality check. Something our fanbase seems to have lost a long time ago in baseball. The fact that we are where we are is very telling to just how good of job our coaching staff has done this year. Yet they are presented as blind squirrels occasionally finding a nut. The assumption that we can go out and cherrypick the next greatest coach in college baseball if we were to fire the ones we have with what they have accomplished seems ridiculous. It's not an easy place to win. Part of what Polk got right in his rant. The cards aren't stacked in our favor. I'd imagine if a neutral party were to rank the SEC baseball jobs -- we would be 4th or 5th in the west right now. That's just our own division. It's a nationally elite fanbase but not a nationally elite job.

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So with your attitude, why do we even build the new stadium?