Aeris

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

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Peters and McLaurin were your main two you wanted to start over Market, Coman, and BRYANT. And they are still not ready. How can you not see that teams go right down the field against them, the game thread blows up about Manny or how bad we tackle (did last night) and it was these guys out there. They are getting better and will be great for us. But it's just not their time to be the main guy. That includes Gray although he is the closest. Along with Peters.

Jenkins Warren thing I never got into because I thought it was a wash either way to start the year and Jenkins would wind up as the starter sooner than later. Strickly experience factor but Jenkins was close to begin with. Coin toss call and the coaches were doing what I thought they would with those two. You could argue either way but either one and our results were going to be the same. I actually thought Shump would do better than he has from what he was building on from the end of last year. He hasn't hit holes like he was then but that was a better running OL. Missed that. Your main guy for the longest has been Lee. You liked Williams and were ok with him getting more touches as long as it wasn't Shump but you were champion Lee as our best by far. I don't think he is and hasn't showed anything against the SEC (too limit of a sample, I know but it's all we have).

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So you're blaming Peters and McLaurin for EVERY mistake the second team makes? Explain to me why Diaz has been trying to get Peters, Bryant, and McLaurin on the field all at the same time then? Did you miss Coman getting picked on repeatedly last night?

Lee/Williams are almost interchangeable to me. I'd actually use them as a tandem. Which Dan doesn't like to do- which is dumb unless you have someone elite.

If a position is a coin toss, you go with the guy with the most upside and get him experience.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I already explained to you that it was skewed because of the sample size. You can't assume that they will fumble either. It goes both ways. Not to mention that Holloway was a WR and then a third string running back- he hasn't had a chance to fumble in two years.

Your problem is assuming Dan is always right when the track record proves otherwise. Dan being scared to put young players who are performing a chance because of fear of failure is a huge problem. He has to trust his talent evaluation. Plus, players have to learn how to deal with making mistakes. Making them sit on the bench the whole time after a mistake is not a great way to deal with. That's scared Dan Walsh at it's finest- scared to do what it takes to win because of a "potential mistake".

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That is the dumbest argument you have made. You absolutely base what they have done (stats) and can only go by that. There is no flip side. This is what they have done so far and it took Holloway 115 touches before he ever fumbled. 115 vs around 20 for each Williams and Lee. And if that is matching what the coaches are seeing elsewhere they had better be looking at that. You are saying arbitrarily that it's going to get better because it has too simply because the sample size is too small. It didn't for Milton. Until Lewis got it under control he had limited touches. Graham (whom several wanted returning punts, don't know whether you did) was given too many chances. Didn't see anybody defending Dan for letting him work it out because he was explosive. Most questioned why Dan kept giving him that many chances. Nobody brings up that in their Dan pulls them too quick even though they are the most talented narrative about fumbling.

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Originally Posted by QuadrupleOption

1) Well okay. I guess if we beat Bama you'll just find something else to bitch about. Maybe you can go over to Nafoom and get some talking points.
2 & 3)
I'm pretty sure Diaz is the final arbiter over who plays on the defensive side of the ball. Maybe I'm wrong though.
As for the RB spot, it's not like you have some special insight when you say that Shumpert hasn't been getting the job done at RB. Holloway has actually been pretty effective there, especially in SEC play where he's averaging 5.3 yards per carry. The thing is, NONE of our running backs have lit the world on fire in the SEC. Maybe there's more to it than you think?

For the rest, you don't win games by throwing a bunch of newcomers out onto the field on day one. Those guys you mentioned are all getting more reps as the season progresses because they have had more time to adjust to the scheme, the game speed, and college life in general. I'm guessing that was the plan all along, so you claiming you were 'right' rings hollow. Everyone knows those guys all have talent. Those of us who aren't trying to be message board experts also realize that you have to bring them along unless you have a surefire NFL first round pick on hand.

Even Leonard Fournette struggled last year.

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I'm not bitching. I'm saying we need to beat Bama to take the next step. Stop being happy with eight wins and try to aim higher.

Holloway is averaging 4.58 yards per carry. Still less than Lee and Williams by a good bit.

And as far as young players- most of those guys have been in our program for over a year only one is a true freshman. Gray is a sophomore. I'm only talking about playing five freshmen total and two are sharing a position.

You say I'm wrong but after every game this year there are threads like this agreeing with me. That speaks volumes.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

It's ok for Holloway to fumble- but not Aeris or DLee apparently

DLee and Dear were supposedly hurt last nite.

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I heard Malik sheared his output shaft right where it comes out of his PTO fwiw

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

So you're blaming Peters and McLaurin for EVERY mistake the second team makes? Explain to me why Diaz has been trying to get Peters, Bryant, and McLaurin on the field all at the same time then? Did you miss Coman getting picked on repeatedly last night?

Lee/Williams are almost interchangeable to me. I'd actually use them as a tandem. Which Dan doesn't like to do- which is dumb unless you have someone elite.

If a position is a coin toss, you go with the guy with the most upside and get him experience.

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No not just Peters and McLaurin. Green was out there. Gray. Graham I believe you thought was out next best corner after Redmond went down. How did he look? They will get there but you don't have near the grasp of personnel as you think. At least not when it concerns when they are ready. I don't always either. I think they slow played Redmond's playing time too much. But he was out there more than people think because of coverages we ran last year but he should have started over Love at least by LSU or A & M last year.

ETA. If a position is a coin toss who says you always play youth upside over experience? Never have heard or seen a coach make that as an absolute. You don't always do that at all. I think this was a coin toss only because Warren has played in SEC games before. I can understand the coaches reasoning because of LSU the second game. There are definite times you need experience over upside. I think this was a close call because neither had played tackle in SEC games.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

That is the dumbest argument you have made. You absolutely base what they have done (stats) and can only go by that. There is no flip side. This is what they have done so far and it took Holloway 115 touches before he ever fumbled. 115 vs around 20 for each Williams and Lee. And if that is matching what the coaches are seeing elsewhere they had better be looking at that. You are saying arbitrarily that it's going to get better because it has too simply because the sample size is too small. It didn't for Milton. Until Lewis got it under control he had limited touches. Graham (whom several wanted returning punts, don't know whether you did) was given too many chances. Didn't see anybody defending Dan for letting him work it out because he was explosive. Most questioned why Dan kept giving him that many chances. Nobody brings up that in their Dan pulls them too quick even though they are the most talented narrative about fumbling.

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And you were probably one of the ones who were saying it was their blocking that was the issue earlier in the year and are now trying to latch onto fumbles. Again, one fumble in almost 40 touches is not an issue.

And yes, the sample size is too small in this case.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

No not just Peters and McLaurin. Green was out there. Gray. Graham I believe you thought was out next best corner after Redmond went down. How did he look? They will get there but you don't have near the grasp of personnel as you think. At least not when it concerns when they are ready. I don't always either. I think they slow played Redmond's playing time too much. But he was out there more than people think because of coverages we ran last year but he should have started over Love at least by LSU or A & M last year.

ETA. If a position is a coin toss who says you always play youth upside over experience? Never have heard or seen a coach make that as an absolute. You don't always do that at all. I think this was a coin toss only because Warren has played in SEC games before. I can understand the coaches reasoning because of LSU the second game. There are definite times you need experience over upside. I think this was a close call because neither had played tackle in SEC games.

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I was wrong about Graham. Right about the others. Six out of seven ain't bad and still better than Dan Walsh. I like how you are trying to call my guys out on a drive where we held them to a field goal while ignoring the 10 than Dan Walsh's crew allowed.

Jenkins has essentially as much experience at tackle as Warren at this point therefore it's more beneficial for us in the long run to play him.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

And you were probably one of the ones who were saying it was their blocking that was the issue earlier in the year and are now trying to latch onto fumbles. Again, one fumble in almost 40 touches is not an issue.

And yes, the sample size is too small in this case.

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Coach 57 was probably the first that really pointed out our OL issues. If I remember right especially LT after the USM game. I agreed with a lot of what he was saying. I think was on the OL issues early in the year. You disagree with him? I know several were concerned about the OL starting the year. I thought they would be better than what have been. They have pass blocked well several times. Desper has had issues on the interior at times all year. Let the 5 star marshmallow get in front of his face against Kentucky that cost us a big play recently.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I was wrong about Graham. Right about the others. Six out of seven ain't bad and still better than Dan Walsh. I like how you are trying to call my guys out on a drive where we held them to a field goal while ignoring the 10 than Dan Walsh's crew allowed.

Jenkins has essentially as much experience at tackle as Warren at this point therefore it's more beneficial for us in the long run to play him.

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You were not right on McLarin or Peters being ready to start right then. And if you remember I called this weeks ago. That they will steadily get more snaps as they get better and ready to play and flat out said you will use that to say you were right at the time. You were not right on several of those guys. Including Green starting over Ritchie Brown. But as that got ready I said you were going to say You were right. Weeks ago I knew that you were going to try a claim that. And they are still not ready. I even said then I agreed about Gray. I think he has a good future. I think several of those guys do. But upside didn't equal to being ready. And I wasn't the only one when discussing Peters and McLaurin. Coach34 said the same thing about the safety's.

ETA. The back ups let them get in the redzone. The starters came back in and held them to a FG.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I was wrong about Graham. Right about the others. Six out of seven ain't bad and still better than Dan Walsh. I like how you are trying to call my guys out on a drive where we held them to a field goal while ignoring the 10 than Dan Walsh's crew allowed.

Jenkins has essentially as much experience at tackle as Warren at this point therefore it's more beneficial for us in the long run to play him.

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Shoot lets sign you up to manage personnel.

Crap. Why are we arguing Todd? We won the game by 18 points. It worked out great for us and we have already won more games than the "experts" picked us to. Let's just enjoy the win and become Arkansas fans for the weekend. Glad we are 7-2 and thought last night was set up for a bad outcome. Thursday night home dogs, in bad weather, use third string left tackle and we took control of the game. The team is playing as well as they have all year these last few games.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Mic...the sample size is too small but so far against better teams I think Williams is better than Lee. Lee has 7 rushes for 7 yards against A & M and Kentucky. Again it's really too small to say but right now I think Williams may be the better of the two. I hope they continue to push each other for the RB 1 spot as it will make them both better.

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My exact thoughts. Been saying it all year.

This is not a knock on Lee's potential ability but folks are up his ass based on a spring game and low level competition.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I was wrong about Graham. Right about the others. Six out of seven ain't bad and still better than Dan Walsh. I like how you are trying to call my guys out on a drive where we held them to a field goal while ignoring the 10 than Dan Walsh's crew allowed.

Jenkins has essentially as much experience at tackle as Warren at this point therefore it's more beneficial for us in the long run to play him.

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Dude...you have completely turned into the "Smitty" of football season. You do not know more about footbal, in particular our team, than the man who sees them everyday and gets paid to coach them. Geez...

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Originally Posted by shoeless joe

Dude...you have completely turned into the "Smitty" of football season. You do not know more about footbal, in particular our team, than the man who sees them everyday and gets paid to coach them. Geez...

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Todd won't admit he's wrong about Coman, either. Kivon has come on strong the last few weeks. Check out AC QB, but Kivon was one of our best players last night: INT, TFL, second on the team in tackles. Two tackles to save TDs, and great coverage plus a PBU to save the garbage time TD. Our safety rotation should be: Kivon, Bryant, Peters, McLaurin in that order.

Checkdown Charlie and Dan Walsh

Sigh

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I'm not bitching. I'm saying we need to beat Bama to take the next step. Stop being happy with eight wins and try to aim higher.

Holloway is averaging 4.58 yards per carry. Still less than Lee and Williams by a good bit.

And as far as young players- most of those guys have been in our program for over a year only one is a true freshman. Gray is a sophomore. I'm only talking about playing five freshmen total and two are sharing a position.

You say I'm wrong but after every game this year there are threads like this agreeing with me. That speaks volumes.

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Stop being spoiled and enjoy the fact that we are now looking at 6 winning seasons in a row for MSU football.

Lee hasn't done squat against SEC competition. Aeris got most of his yards last night in the 4th quarter of a blowout win. He did well with his 3 carries against A&M, and was pretty pedestrian against Kentucky. I'm not going to argue that our RB production has been great this year because it hasn't. But there isn't anyone on our roster who has consistently moved the pile against SEC competition. I don't give a crap about YPC against scrubs.

All the other young guys you talk about are getting reps....so what's the issue?

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

All of this Aeris has problems fumbling is bullshit. He has one fumble and Dan doesn't let him play. Shumpert did the EXACT same thing against USM and if I'm not mistaken Holloway had at least two and obviously the one last night.

Williams has ONE in well over 30 carries and it's an "issue" and a problem? And I don't think Lee or Dear have one yet.

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What is wrong with mullen we won 31 to 13 we have been bowling ever year under him besides the first year. Everyone picked us to be last in the sec here it is nov and we are 7 and 2 ranked 20 but mullen needs to be gone he throws the ball to much.

Absolutely nothing, every coach in America gets criticized and every fan base has that group that thinks they know more about said sport than the coach. Dan is with these guys everyday so I think his knowledge of his team is probably better then anyone else. It is easy to sit here and say this guy or that guy should be playing without any repercussions if said player struggles or costs the team a game. Debating whether or not someone should be playing is one thing, dogging the coach that has brought us out of the cellar after a 31-13 win and making up dumb nicknames is rather lousy.

Great post bb30. I mean we could hire croom back run the ball 2 times throw a 2 yard slant and punt boy those years were fun to watch, and we beat everybody with croom.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Coach 57 was probably the first that really pointed out our OL issues. If I remember right especially LT after the USM game. I agreed with a lot of what he was saying. I think was on the OL issues early in the year. You disagree with him? I know several were concerned about the OL starting the year. I thought they would be better than what have been. They have pass blocked well several times. Desper has had issues on the interior at times all year. Let the 5 star marshmallow get in front of his face against Kentucky that cost us a big play recently.

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Actually, Coach34 is the one who told me about Jenkins. Do I disagree with Coach57 about the o-line? Somewhat with the benefit of hindsight. They're not world beaters, but they are also not nearly as bad as they are made out to be by some when you look at the statistics (sacks and TFL). The elephant in the room is how Dak, Aeris, and Lee have been able to run behind them and even Holloway at times- but not Shumpert.

I think Coach57 would agree with me that the o-line has improved as well- something I believe that he has also mentioned.