Manny Diaz and the 2015 defense...

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09-01-2015, 08:57 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

To his credit, IYOK hasn't been wrong on much. I'm gonna keep holding his opinions in high esteem.

That has been pretty obvious. I agree with him 95% of the time.
09-01-2015, 09:00 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnson85

????

I don't think that's been his MO

Almost every time Coman has been mentioned this offseason he has been quick to point out how he "told us" that Coman was going to be the best safety this year. He hasn't mentioned me personally in a post that I can recall- but it's obvious to me who it is directed at. Most of the time I haven't responded to it and let it slide.
09-01-2015, 09:06 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

No Shit. Todd must be feeling inadequate for some reason.

No-I just have a different opinion.

I think he is right about Coman starting because that has been on par with what Dan usually does. I don't believe he is all that good of a safety and I think we are doing him a disservice not converting him to LB- but I think that Manny will cover him up to a large degree or have him do things that fit his strengths. I also think that we would be much better off starting Peters.

I expect this to go a lot like when people were trying to call the people out that wanted Dan gone about 10 games in during 2013. Dan started Josh and Dak like many of us said he should do- and when we started winning we got called out about it. When the reality is we would have been better off starting Dak and Josh in 2013 over Tyler and Perkins.

Similarly Coman is going to "look better" because of Manny's defense. That doesn't mean he's Ronnie Lott all of a sudden- it means we are scheming better to fit his strengths.
09-01-2015, 09:17 PM
War Machine Dawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

Cahoun also had 53 tackles and 9 passes defended. Coman playing a position that should have more tackles than a corner only had 34 to go with 6 passes defended-half of those against Vanderbilt.

I'm sure you're going to gloat when Coman doesn't suck as bad as he did last year- which again will be more a product of Manny scheming to cover him up as opposed to him suddenly being a lot better. We'll see who the NFL scouts agree with in two years.

BTW- I heard the same crap from people about Clausell. And guess what? He was never any more than average.

Having seen the two- Peters is better than Coman right now. But that doesn't mean much seeing as how we are just now starting Chris Jones and Bear Wilson sat for most of his freshman year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

Ryan Brown is this years Preston Smith. Kivon Coman is this years Blaine Clausell.

But if he is right I'm sure he will be very happy to let everyone know.

http://i.imgur.com/AJnQKF6.gif
09-01-2015, 09:37 PM
Ifyouonlyknew

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

Almost every time Coman has been mentioned this offseason he has been quick to point out how he "told us" that Coman was going to be the best safety this year. He hasn't mentioned me personally in a post that I can recall- but it's obvious to me who it is directed at. Most of the time I haven't responded to it and let it slide.

Sorry you felt that way. I said it every time because that's how I felt. It had nothing to do with you because you haven't been the only person skeptical on Coman & our safeties. Kivon has been killing it since the spring so I've let it be known that he's going to be good. Had nothing to do with you or anybody else.
09-01-2015, 09:42 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew

Sorry you felt that way. I said it every time because that's how I felt. It had nothing to do with you because you haven't been the only person skeptical on Coman & our safeties. Kivon has been killing it since the spring so I've let it be known that he's going to be good. Had nothing to do with you or anybody else.

No hard feelings.
09-01-2015, 09:53 PM
Dallas_Dawg

I think we are quick to write off guys who make mistakes as young players and don't let their careers play out, like Coman.
Shit, I remember watching Kevin Dockery trying to cover and tackle as a young player and he looked like he didn't belong on a football field. Dude ends up being pretty good and wins a Super Bowl ring.
09-02-2015, 09:02 AM
Johnson85

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas_Dawg

I think we are quick to write off guys who make mistakes as young players and don't let their careers play out, like Coman.
Shit, I remember watching Kevin Dockery trying to cover and tackle as a young player and he looked like he didn't belong on a football field. Dude ends up being pretty good and wins a Super Bowl ring.

To your point, I don't ever remember Dockery being good for us. All I remember is him getting torched. So whatever he did at MSU to show scouts he was good enough to play in the NFL, I completely missed it or blocked it out of my mind (or maybe that was the stage at which MSU football got frustrating enough that I pretty much had to drink to watch it).
09-02-2015, 11:55 AM
HoopsCoach21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

Similarly Coman is going to "look better" because of Manny's defense. That doesn't mean he's Ronnie Lott all of a sudden- it means we are scheming better to fit his strengths.

So if Coman comes out and plays well it won't be because he has improved (or maybe he wasn't as bad as you made him out to be) but because of Manny's scheme? He "looks better", is making plays and doing what the coaches ask but he's not "really" better...gotcha. Covering your bases well there in case he does have a good year I see.

Look I know you don't mean to anything by it but couldn't it be both? Maybe the kid has really worked his ass off to improve AND the scheme fits him better. Let's just hope we have good safety play either way.
09-02-2015, 12:42 PM
Dental Dawg33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew

F&%K IT!!!! Say it loud & say it over & over again. Don't be timid & reserved & bashful. No other fan base is. Auburn is saying Muschamp is the greatest thing ever. A&M has Chavis on the Mt. Rushmore of DC's. Why can't Manny come in & be that good. Let's stop playing it safe & be wait & see. Let's beat our chest & have some confidence. We want respect you have to carry yourself with a confident, cocky attitude. Forget being the quiet & humble fanbase. Grab your nuts sometimes & let folks know.

Hahaha grab your nuts and let folks know...I LOVE IT. We going to dominate some folks this year, I truly believe so...and there are plenty of bear associates I can't wait to grab my nuts and let them know
09-02-2015, 01:05 PM
thf24

My .02 on Coman... I would understand your suspicions, Todd, if we were hearing things from the coaches about him like "he's really coming along," or "he really works hard out there." But when our DC says "From the spring into fall I think the development of Kivon Coman has really changed our entire defense," that suggests to me that the coaches believe he's going to be an asset and a playmaker, not just that he'll be solid as long as he's kept out of areas he's weak in.
09-02-2015, 01:28 PM
MedDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew

Yea I don't think we have that 1 guy who will get 10 sacks but I think our DE 2 deep will be more productive as a group than last years.

In 2010 Diaz' top 2 sack leaders for MSU were linebackers. We definitely have some big/fast/strong LBs to fill those roles this season.
09-02-2015, 01:51 PM
War Machine Dawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoopsCoach21

So if Coman comes out and plays well it won't be because he has improved (or maybe he wasn't as bad as you made him out to be) but because of Manny's scheme? He "looks better", is making plays and doing what the coaches ask but he's not "really" better...gotcha. Covering your bases well there in case he does have a good year I see.

Look I know you don't mean to anything by it but couldn't it be both? Maybe the kid has really worked his ass off to improve AND the scheme fits him better. Let's just hope we have good safety play either way.

http://i.imgur.com/IUfGOh9.gif
09-02-2015, 05:06 PM
Schultzy

Quote:

Originally Posted by MedDawg

In 2010 Diaz' top 2 sack leaders for MSU were linebackers. We definitely have some big/fast/strong LBs to fill those roles this season.

Which also means Diaz is willing to send them after the Qb which Collins stupidly wasn't and we had McKinney who could've had double digit sacks last year.

Most of our blitzes came from the cornerbacks which I don't like to see much of, if ever.
09-02-2015, 05:16 PM
HoopsDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schultzy

Which also means Diaz is willing to send them after the Qb which Collins stupidly wasn't and we had McKinney who could've had double digit sacks last year.

Most of our blitzes came from the cornerbacks which I don't like to see much of, if ever.

Matt Wells should have had 10 sacks last year.
09-02-2015, 05:30 PM
Schultzy

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

Matt Wells should have had 10 sacks last year.

No doubt, we coulda caused a lot of pressure and confusion for some qbs last year especially the EB when the guy was playing on one foot, but thankfully those schemes are over and we have a DC that fits our personnel.
09-02-2015, 05:48 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoopsCoach21

So if Coman comes out and plays well it won't be because he has improved (or maybe he wasn't as bad as you made him out to be) but because of Manny's scheme? He "looks better", is making plays and doing what the coaches ask but he's not "really" better...gotcha. Covering your bases well there in case he does have a good year I see.

Look I know you don't mean to anything by it but couldn't it be both? Maybe the kid has really worked his ass off to improve AND the scheme fits him better. Let's just hope we have good safety play either way.

I'm saying he has a limited ceiling- but we can work around it to a degree and it will make him "better". That's why I compared him to Blaine Clausell. Our blocking schemes covered up his limitations as well. Each player only has a certain amount of God given talent and are only going to be able to attain level. Can he improve as a player as well as be utilized as a player better? Absolutely- and I'm sure he has improved as a player- but again, that's realistically only going to be so much.

I'm fine with that especially since Croom was and still is blasted over not playing the spread with Conner and Norwood.

But on the other hand a guy like a Peters or a McLaurin who have a higher ceiling and more athletic ability and talent- we're going to be able to do even more and at a higher level because of what they can do.

I'm sure Coman is a good person and probably works hard as evidenced by his Iron Dawg performance- and that's good. But at the end of the day it should be about who the best all around is rather than who the coaches "like" the best because they want to see him do well.
09-02-2015, 05:49 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg

http://i.imgur.com/IUfGOh9.gif

Brought to you by the guy who thought that Joe Morrow would never amount to anything.

You have a gif of someone throwing stones in a glass house?
09-02-2015, 05:53 PM
Ifyouonlyknew

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

But on the other hand a guy like a Peters or a McLaurin who have a higher ceiling and more athletic ability and talent- we're going to be able to do even more and at a higher level because of what they can do.

This is where the disconnect is at. Kivon is 1 of the best athletes on the team. He's just as good an athlete as Peters & McLaurin.
09-02-2015, 06:08 PM
CadaverDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

No-I just have a different opinion.

I think he is right about Coman starting because that has been on par with what Dan usually does. I don't believe he is all that good of a safety and I think we are doing him a disservice not converting him to LB- but I think that Manny will cover him up to a large degree or have him do things that fit his strengths. I also think that we would be much better off starting Peters.

I expect this to go a lot like when people were trying to call the people out that wanted Dan gone about 10 games in during 2013. Dan started Josh and Dak like many of us said he should do- and when we started winning we got called out about it. When the reality is we would have been better off starting Dak and Josh in 2013 over Tyler and Perkins.

Similarly Coman is going to "look better" because of Manny's defense. That doesn't mean he's Ronnie Lott all of a sudden- it means we are scheming better to fit his strengths.

Wut?

A disservice would be moving him to a position he's never played before, and asking him to win a spot where we're about 8 deep with stud LBers.

You also just compared stats of Coman and Calhoun, when Coman was a backup last year.

Not sure why you don't think Coman is capable of improving. Or better yet, why you don't believe the coach when they say he has morphed into a beast.

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