Alot of our baseball fans need to realize its not 1995 anymore

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05-05-2015, 08:02 PM
gravedigger

So om played for the nc in the last 3 years in football?

Well then. Exactly the same
05-05-2015, 08:11 PM
Bothrops

Gonna be kinda weird to have the best stadium in the country and not be a top-10 program. Of course it hasn't happened yet, and I'll be surprised if it's what they advertised at this point.
05-05-2015, 08:29 PM
Coach34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bothrops

Gonna be kinda weird to have the best stadium in the country and not be a top-10 program. Of course it hasn't happened yet, and I'll be surprised if it's what they advertised at this point.

Why? SC was drawing 80K+ in their football stadium for years when they sucked. They have dedicated fans- just like Miss State baseball
LSU has always had a great stadium- they werent a top 10 program until Saban kick-started them and Miles kept it rolling
Auburn had a nice 80K stadium for football long before they made a run under Tubby in the 2000's
05-05-2015, 08:45 PM
MsStateBaseball

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

2 for 16. Thats how many CWS appearances Miss State has in the last 16 years. 2. Two. Dos.

I keep seeing our fans saying we are a top 10 program- and it's simply not true anymore. The 1990's ended and so did our standing as a top tier baseball school. The lack of scholarships available hurts both us and Mississippi. Bunko has made them very relevant finally and they still only have 1 CWS appearance. It's harder to win at Miss State now in baseball than it is at half the other SEC schools.

We have had losing SEC records in 8 of the last 16 years. That's not a top 10 baseball school.
We have no NC in our history- thats not a top 10 baseball school
We only have 7 CWS appearances the last 35 years- thats not a top 10 baseball school.

All this talk of firing Cohen for 1 down season after a really good 3 year run is ridiculous. College baseball has evolved alot since the 1990's and we havent quite recovered yet.

Should we strive to be there? Absolutely
Is our fan support top 10? Absolutely
Are our facilities top 10? No- but will be in 2 years

Some of ya'll need a dose of reality

Correct, that is why we need elite talent.
05-05-2015, 08:49 PM
Smitty

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsStateBaseball

Correct, that is why we need elite talent.

Worthless without elite development which is Cohen's issue. He is wasting what he has.. The product on the field is not being maximized to it's potential.
05-05-2015, 08:54 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty

Uh just getting bigger "power" hitters won't do shit if Cohen can't/won't develop their power stroke. We have guys that would be much more productive at other schools due to instruction.

You mention some names like Vickerson and Brown as people we "can only expect to hit singles and bunt". Dummy.

Cody Brown leads the team in doubles! He's slugging .420! Vickerson is slugging .415! You act like they have to sac bunt, which is as wrong as it's been for 5 years of you loving the sac bunt!

The problem is Cohen cannot develop our deep ball threat because his instruction takes that swing away. Collins 2 HR. Rea 4 HR. Hump 5 HR. Holland 1 HR. That's pathetic. We don't have very many actual "singles hitters".. We just have a illiterate offensive approach sucking their production away.

You talking about swing instruction is laughable for reasons that you've proven on here with your thoughts on how to hit with two strikes. Even if we had a bad approach, you wouldn't know the difference.

What power hitters have we had that Cohen has "not developed"? We've had so few to start with. Collins has been hurt, Rea was recruited as a pitcher, and Holland is not a power hitter to start with. And even Humphreys has improved over last season and I expect him to continue to do so.

Who cares if Cody Brown leads us in doubles? I'm wrong because he's the tallest midget? He only has 13 extra base hits total. Why don't you compare their slugging percentage to the leaders of the rest of the league rather than against other singles hitters? NO ONE on our team is in the top 15 in the SEC in any extra base hit category right now.

A .420! slugging percentage compared to the SEC leader who has a slugging percentage of .729 and the number 15 guy has a slugging percentage of .549. But please tell me what a dummy I am when our hitters aren't even slugging remotely close to the top 20 in the entire league. And yes, when you have that many singles hitters you have to create runs by bunting for hits, stealing bases, and putting runners in motion. It's not ideal, but it's what we have to do to survive.
05-05-2015, 08:58 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty

Worthless without elite development which is Cohen's issue. He is wasting what he has.. The product on the field is not being maximized to it's potential.

C- Collins has been hurt and will probably still be drafted pretty high next year.
1B- Rea recruited as a pitcher. Not drafted
2B- Holland is a JUCO never been drafted
3B- Heck is a JUCO never been drafted
SS- Gridley is a freshman and never has been drafted
LF- Humphreys- drafted by Nationals and leads team in home runs
CF- Robson- drafted by Padres and leads team in average and stolen bases
RF- Vickerson- is a JUCO and was never drafted
DH- Reynolds- is a JUCO and was never drafted

Which one of these players would you actually consider an "elite talent"?
05-05-2015, 09:01 PM
Coach34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

C- Collins has been hurt and will probably still be drafted pretty high next year.
1B- Rea recruited as a pitcher. Not drafted
2B- Holland is a JUCO never been drafted
3B- Heck is a JUCO never been drafted
SS- Gridley is a freshman and never has been drafted
LF- Humphreys- drafted by Nationals and leads team in home runs
CF- Robson- drafted by Padres and leads team in average and stolen bases
RF- Vickerson- is a JUCO and was never drafted
DH- Reynolds- is a JUCO and was never drafted

Which one of these players would you actually consider an "elite talent"?

ouch

Looks like we have a recruiting problem- not a development problem
05-05-2015, 09:03 PM
Bothrops

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

Why? SC was drawing 80K+ in their football stadium for years when they sucked. They have dedicated fans- just like Miss State baseball
LSU has always had a great stadium- they werent a top 10 program until Saban kick-started them and Miles kept it rolling
Auburn had a nice 80K stadium for football long before they made a run under Tubby in the 2000's

That's fine and all but you're comparing football to baseball, which hugely different in terms of average fan interest. I'm all for the stadium, but the younger students/alum are gonna need to get more with program.
05-05-2015, 09:15 PM
Coach34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bothrops

That's fine and all but you're comparing football to baseball, which hugely different in terms of average fan interest. I'm all for the stadium, but the younger students/alum are gonna need to get more with program.

Just because you have top 10 fan interest doesnt mean you have to have a top 10 program was my point
05-05-2015, 09:16 PM
Smitty

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

And yes, when you have that many singles hitters you have to create runs by bunting for hits, stealing bases, and putting runners in motion. It's not ideal, but it's what we have to do to survive.

First time in 5+ years this post hasn't included sac bunting.... Progress. I agree with all of those things you listed, you have just (15+ times) always included sac bunting in that list.
05-05-2015, 09:23 PM
Homedawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

You talking about swing instruction is laughable for reasons that you've proven on here with your thoughts on how to hit with two strikes. Even if we had a bad approach, you wouldn't know the difference.

What power hitters have we had that Cohen has "not developed"? We've had so few to start with. Collins has been hurt, Rea was recruited as a pitcher, and Holland is not a power hitter to start with. And even Humphreys has improved over last season and I expect him to continue to do so.

Who cares if Cody Brown leads us in doubles? I'm wrong because he's the tallest midget? He only has 13 extra base hits total. Why don't you compare their slugging percentage to the leaders of the rest of the league rather than against other singles hitters? NO ONE on our team is in the top 15 in the SEC in any extra base hit category right now.

A .420! slugging percentage compared to the SEC leader who has a slugging percentage of .729 and the number 15 guy has a slugging percentage of .549. But please tell me what a dummy I am when our hitters aren't even slugging remotely close to the top 20 in the entire league. And yes, when you have that many singles hitters you have to create runs by bunting for hits, stealing bases, and putting runners in motion. It's not ideal, but it's what we have to do to survive.

Funny you should mention the great 2 strike approach debate. For shits and giggles I recently asked 2 people in the Yankee organization, one an advanced scout and the other a coach, about this absurd debate, they laughed like hell when i told them what the 9 idiots on this board said was the proper 2 strike approach. I didn't ask because I needed to know. I asked to get a good laugh. And boy it was good. One response was, "shit, that won't work in wiffle ball in the back yard. What idiot said that crazy shit. You are kidding right?". Nope I said. People believe it.
05-05-2015, 09:36 PM
Smitty

LSU

C - Kade Scivicque .370 5 HR.. JUCO-Not Drafted
1B - Chris Chinea .369 7 HR.. Not Drafted
2B - Jared Foster .275 8 HR.. Not Drafted
3B - Connor Hale .333 4 HR.. JUCO - Not Drafted
SS - Alex Bregman... Drafted 29th Round
LF - Jake Fraley .291 1 HR .. Not Drafted
CF - Mark Laird .335 1 HR ..Not Drafted
RF - Chris Sciambra .337 2 HR .. Not Drafted
DH/CF Andrew Stevenson .356 1 HR .. Not Drafted

Interesting
05-05-2015, 09:41 PM
CadaverDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty

LSU

C - Kade Scivicque .370 5 HR.. JUCO-Not Drafted
1B - Chris Chinea .369 7 HR.. Not Drafted
2B - Jared Foster .275 8 HR.. Not Drafted
3B - Connor Hale .333 4 HR.. JUCO - Not Drafted
SS - Alex Bregman... Drafted 29th Round
LF - Jake Fraley .291 1 HR .. Not Drafted
CF - Mark Laird .335 1 HR ..Not Drafted
RF - Chris Sciambra .337 2 HR .. Not Drafted
DH/CF Andrew Stevenson .356 1 HR .. Not Drafted

Interesting

Ouch
05-05-2015, 09:46 PM
Smitty

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Ouch

Yep, that one will leave a mark.. Especially the two JUCO's that are smashing.
05-05-2015, 09:57 PM
Jack Lambert

I relate it to football. About nine games in during the 2013 football season everyone wanted Mullen's head and by the end of the Liberty Bowl he was being celebrated as if nothing was ever said.
05-05-2015, 09:58 PM
BeardoMSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

C- Collins has been hurt and will probably still be drafted pretty high next year.
1B- Rea recruited as a pitcher. Not drafted
2B- Holland is a JUCO never been drafted
3B- Heck is a JUCO never been drafted
SS- Gridley is a freshman and never has been drafted
LF- Humphreys- drafted by Nationals and leads team in home runs
CF- Robson- drafted by Padres and leads team in average and stolen bases
RF- Vickerson- is a JUCO and was never drafted
DH- Reynolds- is a JUCO and was never drafted

Which one of these players would you actually consider an "elite talent"?

Yikes...
05-05-2015, 10:12 PM
War Machine Dawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

I understand that we have a lineup full of singles hitters. For Heaven's sakes- I've been saying that we shouldn't expect our SINGLES hitters to be power hitters because that's what we want them to be, and then you're telling me that I don't seem to realize that our offense is 7-8 singles hitters? I WANT us to have 4-5 power hitters and 4-5 speed guys. Let's not pretend like we don't have posters on here that don't say things about how "this is what Cohen wants" or "all we have to do to hit with more power is change our hitting mechanics" though.

And there is a short term fix- it's called recruiting.

No. You've admitted yourself you expect the impact power bats in the current class to go to the Draft. That will leave us scrambling to fill their spots with hitters who are about on par with what we currently have. And when I say short term, I'm talking 1-2 years, i.e. the time Cohen will be given to fix this shitburger.

I find it hilarious that you're once aGAIN blowing our recruits like Nate Lowe while ranting about how JUCO players suck and we need to stop recruiting them. That's called talking out both sides of your mouth, last time I checked. Frankly, Cohen recruited his way into this mess and I don't see how he can recruit his way out of it in just one season. Especially considering that baseball recruiting is done years in advance.
05-05-2015, 10:16 PM
Smitty

Texas A&M

Nick Banks.. .381... 5 HR .. Not Drafted 6'0
Logan Taylor.. .372... 10 HR.. Not Drafted 6'1
Mitchell Nau .. .364... 3 HR.. Not Drafted 5'10
Blake Allemand.. .337... 4 HR.. Not Drafted 5'10
Hunter Melton.. .336... 4 HR.. Not Drafted 6'2
Ronnie Gideon.. .325... 7 HR.. Drafted 35th Round
Ryne Birk.. .283... 4 HR... Not Drafted 5'10
JB Moss... .275... 5 HR... Not Drafted 6'0
Michael Barash.. .245... 1 HR.. Not Drafted 6'1
Logan Nottebrok.. .224... 4 HR.. Not Drafted 6'3
05-05-2015, 10:18 PM
confucius say

The best way to determine whether a coach can develop talent is to see if talent develops from when they got here till when they left the program. I have not the time nor the energy to look it up, but I would venture to guess guys have become better hitters against sec competition under Cohen. Renfroe, Frazier, pirtle, rea, Vickerson, come to mind. Maybe I'm wrong.

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