The drop in fan support for MSU Basketball is a major crisis

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Originally Posted by Coach34

What was dumb about it?

We have gotten rid of the drama and bullshit that has plagued this program for awhile.
We are losing like this now because of the shitty culture of the program he left.

The only thing I am disappointed in is the shortsightedness of many of our fans- like you. But of course, if I was in nursing home like you, I'd probably be shortsighted as well.

When you lose all 5 starters and hire a coach late like we did- and not have much else left in the program with a complete lack of discipline culture- this is what you get. This is what you Stands Lovers get for continuing to support his bullshit each year. You asked for this. And now Ray has to clean it up.

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What was all the drama and bullshit other than the Sidney fiasco? Transfers, failed drug tests? Please, that happens all over the country. The talented players we get to Mstate are going to have some character flaws otherwise they would sign with Duke. Timmy Bowers types don't grow on trees. Rick Ray realizes this that's why he tried to sign Quantel Denson. Stans brought in the talent to keep us relevant. The man could recruit. Let's not forget that Stans signed 3 NBA players that would have played at least one year at MSU under the current system: Monta Ellis, John Bender, and Travis Outlaw. Can Ray sign that type of player? Stan's career would have looked even better after having those players for one year each. Can Ray find transfers like L-Rob, Moultrie, and Shane Power? I think we are looking at a re-building process that may take a couple of coaches and 8-10 years and will anyone even care by that point?

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Originally Posted by mic

Look where ALL other schools students sit at their home games.. Our students should be pissed with the sections they are allowed to sit in. Go back to when the hump was one of the hardest places to play and look at where the student sections were.. Give some of these seats back to the students. Most of the season ticket holders don't make the mid week home games anyway..

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At least let us take over the section for mid-week games. But I guess that would hurt too many feelings. I've been screaming for this for years, but no one cares about the students. The Ninja ****ed up the student section, that's on him.

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Originally Posted by shannondawg

2nd round would look pretty dam good right now. In my opinion our final four run was a stroke of luck, with Princeton beating UCLA, or we would have not made it to the sweet 16.. Thought that then, think it now. I went out to the game in Oakland and saw us get beat up pretty bad by them out there the year before the final four run. If you remember our record wasn't all that outstanding the year we made it.

Everyone talks about a deep run in the tourney, but most of our fans calling for this don't really realize what it takes to get there. There are a lot more schools with a deeper history and support of their basketball programs with a lot tougher competition to hone those skills year in and year out and a lot deeper recruiting base..

Why aren't our expectations the same in football? We got to the SEC championship game one time, but no one keeps throwing that up as a failure each year we don't make it and hell that is just for the conference. I'll tell you why, cause coaches like Stansbury raised the bar on our expectations and now he is castigated for it.

And it will probably be that way in baseball this year with a lot of our fans, who are already ready to jump because we lost a few games and if we don't make the championship game again this year, will think our program is a bust.

Better stop and smell the roses after each win and savor them, cause it gonna be a long time between them now for a good many years.

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Syracuse won 2 games at the buzzer that same tourney.. If they get upset we prob would have been in the finals.. It takes a little luck to get to elight 8, final 4 ect.. The fact that Stans never did get past the 2nd round with the talent he had still amazes me..

Most of you keep Blaming RR and basically only RR for where the program is now.. NO ONE would have come in here last year and won , and even if another coach had recruited a great class after his first year we still wouldn't have been tourney team this year. Im not saying RR gets a pass with some blame, but it should be handed out to Scott for the questionable hire, and the ex coach for leaving the program in the shape it was in..
If RR doesn't win next year , then I agree we need to look elsewhere for a coach. But the job will look much more appealing to whoever comes in here than it did 2 years ago..

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

What was all the drama and bullshit other than the Sidney fiasco? Transfers, failed drug tests? Please, that happens all over the country. The talented players we get to Mstate are going to have some character flaws otherwise they would sign with Duke. Timmy Bowers types don't grow on trees. Rick Ray realizes this that's why he tried to sign Quantel Denson. Stans brought in the talent to keep us relevant. The man could recruit. Let's not forget that Stans signed 3 NBA players that would have played at least one year at MSU under the current system: Monta Ellis, John Bender, and Travis Outlaw. Can Ray sign that type of player? Stan's career would have looked even better after having those players for one year each. Can Ray find transfers like L-Rob, Moultrie, and Shane Power? I think we are looking at a re-building process that may take a couple of coaches and 8-10 years and will anyone even care by that point?

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problem is those players aren't in the state and there hasn't been talent like that in a while. Besides Hood , who is the last sure fire NBA player to come from MS.?? Or for that matter players from the state that went pro in the last 15 years.. And everyone don't kid yourself MN wasn't coming here if Stans was still the coach. RR may not get him but Stans wasn't..

Look on the bright side, we are not in near as bad of shape as Boston College .... yet ....

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Originally Posted by mic

problem is those players aren't in the state and there hasn't been talent like that in a while. Besides Hood , who is the last sure fire NBA player to come from MS.?? Or for that matter players from the state that went pro in the last 15 years.. And everyone don't kid yourself MN wasn't coming here if Stans was still the coach. RR may not get him but Stans wasn't..

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I wouldn't have bet against Stans not getting Malik. If you so surre about that , you must know where he is going..

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Originally Posted by shannondawg

I wouldn't have bet against Stans not getting Malik. If you so surre about that , you must know where he is going..

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Webster told another former player Malik would never play for Stands

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Webster told another former player Malik would never play for Stands

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Sure he did... just like Hood was definitely not going to be here if Stans had stayed... Just like you nailed the prediction on who was going to be our coach after Stans.

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Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

This is why our fan base is dumb. Too ignorant to look at the big picture. Is there anyone on this board who doesn't think that if we had kept Stansbury that we would have had a better record over the past two years? I think it's pretty obvious we would. Josh Gray may be here, Wendell Lewis still here, Jalen Steele still here, few others maybe. Better record than the last two years pretty easily.

But people, THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE HERE!! The issue here is would Stansbury have ever done better than his ceiling, which was 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament 1 time in 2007-2008. We had guys getting in fights in public, multiple failed drug tests, horrible NIT losses, and an overall bad national picture of our program (regardless of whether you think some of those talking heads are decent analysts or not, they are still on ESPN and them bashing us is in no way good for us).

We didn't ask to suck and we didn't ask for Ray to struggle. But what we did ask for is hope that our program would one day be better than the crap we had to deal with the last few years under Stansbury. Ray may never get us there, but anyone that guarantees Stansbury would have eventually gotten us there is stupid and completely bias to the situation at hand. Look at the real issue you guys that are bashing Ray and tell me if you really think keeping Stansbury was in the best long term interest of our program.

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I totally get that we were trying to scrap everything in order to have a chance to be better in the future, but we're probably going to realize in the next 10 years that maybe having a ceiling of going to the 2nd round isn't that bad.

I'd rather have a coach that can put you in the NCAA's consistently, that way you're giving yourself a chance, and eventually maybe things will break your way and you'll break through...

Too many people think the NCAA 2nd rd was Stans' ceiling... Tom Osborne coached Nebraska for 21 years without winning a National Title, then won 2 in a row. I bet Nebraska fans thought after 20 years that they knew what they were getting with him too, and that he wouldn't ever break through and win the National Championship... Bobby Bowden coached for 22 years before he won his first NC.

If the ultimate goal is the Sweet 16, I'd rather go with a coach that has proven that he can get us within 1 game of that feat than start over with a coach (or a bunch of coaches in the future) that we have no idea if we'll even ever get the opportunity to get close to that level again

You just compared Stansbury to Tom Osborne and Bobby Bowden. Haha

No... just saying in general, just because someone hasn't reached the desired "milestone" that their fanbase has been clamoring over for 20 years, doesn't mean they've reached their ceiling and can't ever get there.

Their milestone happened to be a championship, Stans a Sweet 16

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Originally Posted by Coach34

What was dumb about it?

We have gotten rid of the drama and bullshit that has plagued this program for awhile.
We are losing like this now because of the shitty culture of the program he left.

The only thing I am disappointed in is the shortsightedness of many of our fans- like you. But of course, if I was in nursing home like you, I'd probably be shortsighted as well.

When you lose all 5 starters and hire a coach late like we did- and not have much else left in the program with a complete lack of discipline culture- this is what you get. This is what you Stands Lovers get for continuing to support his bullshit each year. You asked for this. And now Ray has to clean it up.

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Is this thread not "drama and bullshit"? As bad as you say it was, it is worse now. Our fans are split and nobody cares about basketball any more. That is a bigger problem than we had. You can say that some fans have "shortsidedness" because they don't agree with you. I say that reality is something you don't get - the reality is that our program is worse off now than it has ever been. Not just the losing, but the constant negativity and empty stands. I can understand when you argued that a change should be made, but I cannot understand you thinking now that we are better off. It will take a while (under Ray or another coach) before you get State fans interested in basketball again. I know guys that were big basketball fans that now cannot tell you when we play or even the players on the team.

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Originally Posted by whatever

No... just saying in general, just because someone hasn't reached the desired "milestone" that their fanbase has been clamoring over for 20 years, doesn't mean they've reached their ceiling and can't ever get there.

Their milestone happened to be a championship, Stans a Sweet 16

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He got 14 years plus more as an assistant. How much is enough? It was time for change.

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Originally Posted by whatever

I totally get that we were trying to scrap everything in order to have a chance to be better in the future, but we're probably going to realize in the next 10 years that maybe having a ceiling of going to the 2nd round isn't that bad.

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We have a soothsayer in our midst...awesome.

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Originally Posted by whatever

Sure he did... just like Hood was definitely not going to be here if Stans had stayed... Just like you nailed the prediction on who was going to be our coach after Stans.

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Cant win them all- alot of people thought we were hiring Kenny Payne- as did Kenny that morning. Strick went a different direction at the end. I get more wrong than right- ask Melvin and Les Koenning

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Webster told another former player Malik would never play for Stands

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I know Horatio was a regular fixture up at the Mize Center Stans last year, I would not think he would be going around saying that while enjoying the hospitality as much as he did.. (and I didn't hear that from another former player)

By the way, has anybody on here ever even give credit to Stans for raising the money for that excellent facility. It took a lot of work and he and Wesley Reed really should be thanked for all that effort. Its a shame he only got to use it one season..

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Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

This is why our fan base is dumb. Too ignorant to look at the big picture. Is there anyone on this board who doesn't think that if we had kept Stansbury that we would have had a better record over the past two years? I think it's pretty obvious we would. Josh Gray may be here, Wendell Lewis still here, Jalen Steele still here, few others maybe. Better record than the last two years pretty easily.

But people, THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE HERE!! The issue here is would Stansbury have ever done better than his ceiling, which was 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament 1 time in 2007-2008. We had guys getting in fights in public, multiple failed drug tests, horrible NIT losses, and an overall bad national picture of our program (regardless of whether you think some of those talking heads are decent analysts or not, they are still on ESPN and them bashing us is in no way good for us).

We didn't ask to suck and we didn't ask for Ray to struggle. But what we did ask for is hope that our program would one day be better than the crap we had to deal with the last few years under Stansbury. Ray may never get us there, but anyone that guarantees Stansbury would have eventually gotten us there is stupid and completely bias to the situation at hand. Look at the real issue you guys that are bashing Ray and tell me if you really think keeping Stansbury was in the best long term interest of our program.

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Atleast we were relevant enough to be talked about on ESPN back then.

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Originally Posted by shannondawg

I know Horatio was a regular fixture up at the Mize Center Stans last year, I would not think he would be going around saying that while enjoying the hospitality as much as he did.. (and I didn't hear that from another former player)

By the way, has anybody on here ever even give credit to Stans for raising the money for that excellent facility. It took a lot of work and he and Wesley Reed really should be thanked for all that effort. Its a shame he only got to use it one season..

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A former player being wined and dined? Why wouldnt he soak some of that up? Parents of athletes do that all the time at different schools.

Absolutely a credit to Stands for getting that built. Just like it was a credit to Ray for getting that big donation for the lockerroom renovation.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

We have a soothsayer in our midst...awesome.

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I'm not one of those guys that's complaining right now, b/c I realize the situation that we're in and that it's gonna take awhile.

But I honestly don't see it ever getting to a point where we're making 11 postseasons in 14 years again, or 6 NCAA's in 8 years like we did at one point under Stans.

I'm all about giving Ray 4 years to see if he can bring in players. But the thing with Ray is, our "ceiling" in his 3rd and 4th years is looking like an NIT bid in one of those years (where you guys will all say "look we're improving! We made the NIT after a disastrous 1st 2 years!!!)

Let's say he barely misses the NIT next year and makes it in year 4, then we keep him because he's "improving." But then we lose our best players and our core of Ware, Thomas, and Sword after year 4 and we're rebuilding again in year 5 unless he brings in someone with more potential than those 3 players in between now and then, which isn't looking likely.

I'm not looking forward to rebuilding in year 5 after a ceiling of making the NIT his 1st four years.

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Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

No what the problem is is that fans like you that think we should just grab a bunch of JUCOs and we will be magically better.

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i mean, in all fairness, C34 is in another thread saying we win 4 or 5 more games by simply playing daniels, who didn't do anything special in juco and wasn't all that highly recruited (spare the wichita st offer please), and wouldn't have played a game in the 1st semester. so apparently C34 thinks we'd be magically better with 1 juco guy.