Question for the Rick Ray fans

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Originally Posted by engie

But he was always on the Cohen bandwagon**

I think the "when is it Cohen's team" thread needs some transcription here. Yet, people say my constant comparison is ridiculous. Well, go read the damn thread -- it's basically identical to this one.

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Is there a link to this thread? Is this where that quote came from? I hate to be skeptical, but you guys have spread lies before.

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Originally Posted by RougeDawg

retty damn good ballers in the Sanderson daily. I'm sure Most of them would love to have a walkon spot on the team. Why not have a tryout for players like that? They're better than what we put on the floor Wed night, for sure. Didn't we have an open tryout like this for kicker last year?

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Ray has had tryouts for walk-ons both years- that's how we got Cunningham

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Originally Posted by MadDawg

Where did you dig this up from? Got a link to this? I don't remember making that statement, but I might have. I've admitted to being wrong about Cohen. I wonder, though, if Ray turns out to be a bust, will you admit you were wrong? Hahahaha. Nevermind, of course you won't.

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But the point of showing your quote and taking issue with everything you say about Ray now is that you just have to give him more time. People said the same about Cohen, but people like you refused to give him that time before coming to a conclusion on his coaching ability. Same with Ray...here you are making the same mistake.

That doesn't mean Ray will be a home run. He may not work and we have to make a change. But you just can't make that judgement right now. If Ray turns out to be a bust, no one who said we have to give him more time will have been wrong; once he's had enough time, we'll acknowledge he had to go.

But if Ray turns out to be great, you will look dumb, just as you do now with Cohen.

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Originally Posted by MadDawg

Is there a link to this thread? Is this where that quote came from? I hate to be skeptical, but you guys have spread lies before.

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thats funny....Engie provided links to 5 old threads earlier in the thread. Made for some really good reading

http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/reply/4...m#reply-467588

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Originally Posted by RougeDawg

The "Man" could have walked his ass across the parking lot to the Sanderson on any given afternoon, and hand picked a better team than what was on his roster this and last year. This is what pisses me off. When I was at state there were some pretty damn good ballers in the Sanderson daily. I'm sure Most of them would love to have a walkon spot on the team. Why not have a tryout for players like that? They're better than what we put on the floor Wed night, for sure. Didn't we have an open tryout like this for kicker last year?

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Kickers are one thing.....but to go and find legit PLAYERS is an entirely different thing, as well. Guess we could find a better point guard at the Sanderson? dang, wish someone had told Croom we could have found someone to replace Henig from the intramural football league!!! or maybe find a better RT than Siddoway in the Union!
You don't just walk around a college campus and find D-I ball players that are not already on a team. Sure, i am sure there might be one at MSU, but not 5-7 of them.

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Originally Posted by Schultzy

It's not a theory, hyperbole or misguided exaggeration. It is reality. We hired a coach without head coaching experience BECAUSE of how bad the shape our program had sunk to.

It's frustrating for us on this side of the argument because we think it should be obvious for reasonable people to see.

Because of the deep hole Ray inherited, he should be given more than 1-1/2 years to dig out of it. MSU is not a school that can plug in 5 McDonalds All Americans each year.

You should at least acknowledge Ray took a big career chance by accepting this challenge of a depleted program.

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i don't think ray took a big career chance. he wasn't anywhere near getting another major conference HC gig, he's being compensated well above his assistant coach salary, and if he can't turn us around and gets fired, he'll still be able to go back to being an assistant coach.

as for the 5 mcdonald's AA comment, we still wouldn't be landing many McD's AA, but our admin is hamstringing ray's recruiting by limiting his AAU contacts. it's just impossible to to recruit above avg major conference talent without getting in bed with AAU. it's dirty, but it's necessary.

Here another nugget from the old archives engie lives in:

"What do you think will be the biggest difference between Polk and Cohen?

'May not mean much to you, but that difference between Polk and Cohen means a lot to me and I bet others as well.'

Oh it means something. I just think it's more about the "calm, that's baseball Polk" versus the "fiery, emotional Cohen". That's the difference in my opinion. And for the record, I'm ready for that change. We've done it Polk's way for too long. It's time for a new direction."


But that doesn't fit the narrative, so I'm sure it got ignored.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Engie beat me to replying- but yeah, what he said

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are you sure ya'll aren't twins-both are great selective stat kings--but I guess the rest of the story is lost on you two Mesage board gurus

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Originally Posted by smootness

Oh gosh. Oh. Gosh. We have officially entered the twilight zone.

Tyson Cunningham is about as good as any non-basketball player on campus. You want to throw some other Tyson Cunningham's out there?

I mean, I'm sorry, but holy crap. 'I know some dudes who could ball, we should put them on the team!' Giant LOL.

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You are a ****ing clown, who obviously hasn't stepped foot in the Sanderson. I've noticed a pattern of you commenting on multiple legitimate posts lately. Do you just like to talk shit to stir the pot? And if you'd refrained from responding you would have seen Coach respond with Ray already holding similar tryouts. I don't keep up with much basketball behind the scenes, but I do know there are better players in the Sanderson than a handful of players currently on our roster.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Ray has had tryouts for walk-ons both years- that's how we got Cunningham

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Are they not getting much participation in these tryouts? When I was in school in the Early/Mid 2000's there were some solid players that play in the Sanderson, and some good shooters. I would suspect nothing has changed in that category. Are these guys just not interested in playing or trying out? Their school is obviously already paid for so something has to be preventing them from wanting to play.

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Originally Posted by Westdawg

Kickers are one thing.....but to go and find legit PLAYERS is an entirely different thing, as well. Guess we could find a better point guard at the Sanderson? dang, wish someone had told Croom we could have found someone to replace Henig from the intramural football league!!! or maybe find a better RT than Siddoway in the Union!
You don't just walk around a college campus and find D-I ball players that are not already on a team. Sure, i am sure there might be one at MSU, but not 5-7 of them.

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Are you saying that our current roster is entirely composed of players that are actually D-I quality? Hasn't that been the argument by most on here? Not very talented? Open Roster spots? Warm bodies who know how to inbound a pass and run up and down the court would be better than what I saw Wednesday night out there.

We should get a few things straight. Producing an either/or scenario In a debate is completely elementary and not worth the time to rebut.

And, yes, calling someone a troll for simply disagreeing with your opinion is irresponsible and insulting to the intelligence of the poster.

You seem to be arguing a point that is undeniable. I'm unsure why other than you have nothing left to offer on the subject. Fighting in the stands is embarrassing and there is no need in raising your blood pressure to try and prove it

As is usual, your emotions have clouded any reasonable response. And since you seem to care enough to read the posts and have a logical discussion on the points, I will reiterate.

Rick Ray is not a good coach. Can he become one? Sure. But until results are shown we can't tell. The embarrassment in the performance against Georgia has nothing to do with Georgia and if you are unable to see the problems then maybe you should dust off the ole basketball 101 book.

As for agendas? You simply making that statement is hypocritical at the very best. The only legitimate argument you have provided for Rays abilities is to discuss Stansbury. Now there is the real agenda.

So you should continue your pattern of exaggeration and name calling since you obviously have no need or want for actual thoughtful discussion.

And just as an aside, did you go to the game Wednesday?

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Originally Posted by Coach34

I don't think you're trolling- it's just that removing Stands was a no-brainer. The only question left on that was did we wait a year too long?

The problems started once we began the search to replace him. Strick and Co had no idea the job was viewed as toxic as it was. None of us did really. Hell, you Stands-Lovers still dont believe it. It was a big reality check for Strick- but it also gave him reassurance that he did the right thing. And that's why we have a guy named Rick Ray coaching us now.

We'll see the next 2 years how it works out.

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I'm just wondering. Why do you insist on insulting Stansbury with names like "Stands". Do you think it brings value to your arguments? Do you think somehow Stansbury sees this and is insulted? I'd like to hear your reasoning on it.

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Originally Posted by tcdog70

are you sure ya'll aren't twins-both are great selective stat kings--but I guess the rest of the story is lost on you two Mesage board gurus

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No- just dont make a dumbass statement and then get mad when proven wrong. Everybody questioned what was going on with Stewart his 2nd season- he was clearly worse than his freshman season. He had a Soph slump- for whatever reason- but came on and had two more good seasons after.

You were wrong, it happens. Stop being a whiner about it

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Originally Posted by smootness

But the point of showing your quote and taking issue with everything you say about Ray now is that you just have to give him more time. People said the same about Cohen, but people like you refused to give him that time before coming to a conclusion on his coaching ability. Same with Ray...here you are making the same mistake.

That doesn't mean Ray will be a home run. He may not work and we have to make a change. But you just can't make that judgement right now. If Ray turns out to be a bust, no one who said we have to give him more time will have been wrong; once he's had enough time, we'll acknowledge he had to go.

But if Ray turns out to be great, you will look dumb, just as you do now with Cohen.

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EXACTLY.

It's not about being "right" or "wrong". It's about the ridiculousness and redundancy of forming COMPLETE opinions on INCOMPLETE data sets...

Of course, you and I will be pinned as "Ray lovers that were wrong" if he doesn't work out -- even though we've taken no such actual stance.

Barry Stewart is a better player than anybody Rick Ray has recruited for us and has on our team. And he was an under the radar guy that Stans signed.

Barry could do something NONE and i say it again NONE of our current players could do and that is consistently shoot and make 3pointers.

Yall all can hammer on Stans all you want but fact remains that he always recruited and played guys who could hit 3 pointers from Tang, Antonio Jackson, Markell Patterson, Ontario, Timmy B, Frazier, Power, Jamont, Barry, Ben Hans, Dee, Steele , etc.. Hell Riley Benock is a better shooter than anybody currently have on our team.

Is it that hard for Ray to go recruit in an area he used to coach (Indiana or the midwest) and find a kid who can knock down jumpers???

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Originally Posted by MadDawg

Here another nugget from the old archives engie lives in:

"What do you think will be the biggest difference between Polk and Cohen?

'May not mean much to you, but that difference between Polk and Cohen means a lot to me and I bet others as well.'

Oh it means something. I just think it's more about the "calm, that's baseball Polk" versus the "fiery, emotional Cohen". That's the difference in my opinion. And for the record, I'm ready for that change. We've done it Polk's way for too long. It's time for a new direction."


But that doesn't fit the narrative, so I'm sure it got ignored.

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And again, you TOTALLY whiff on the overriding point -- in attempt to get caught up in the small details -- from an ENTIRELY different point in time of the two compared tenures.

The fact of the matter is -- you took the exact same approach to Cohen that you are taking to Ray. You didn't learn a damn thing from this the last time.

Also would like to add that Rick Ray's offense which some of you may love is about as boring of an offense as there is in the SEC. We rarely score in our half court motion offense mainly due to lack of shooters. Most of our points come in transition off of steals. When teams don't turn it over (Georgia in the 2nd half) we struggle.

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Originally Posted by TheDogFather

We should get a few things straight. Producing an either/or scenario In a debate is completely elementary and not worth the time to rebut.

And, yes, calling someone a troll for simply disagreeing with your opinion is irresponsible and insulting to the intelligence of the poster.

You seem to be arguing a point that is undeniable. I'm unsure why other than you have nothing left to offer on the subject. Fighting in the stands is embarrassing and there is no need in raising your blood pressure to try and prove it

As is usual, your emotions have clouded any reasonable response. And since you seem to care enough to read the posts and have a logical discussion on the points, I will reiterate.

Rick Ray is not a good coach. Can he become one? Sure. But until results are shown we can't tell. The embarrassment in the performance against Georgia has nothing to do with Georgia and if you are unable to see the problems then maybe you should dust off the ole basketball 101 book.

As for agendas? You simply making that statement is hypocritical at the very best. The only legitimate argument you have provided for Rays abilities is to discuss Stansbury. Now there is the real agenda.

So you should continue your pattern of exaggeration and name calling since you obviously have no need or want for actual thoughtful discussion.

And just as an aside, did you go to the game Wednesday?

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Blah blah blah -- you said something fuggin stupid that called your agenda to front and center -- and making up a bunch of other straw man bullshit(which is also mostly fuggin stupid) to deflect doesn't change a damn bit of it.

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Originally Posted by TheDogFather

I'm just wondering. Why do you insist on insulting Stansbury with names like "Stands". Do you think it brings value to your arguments? Do you think somehow Stansbury sees this and is insulted? I'd like to hear your reasoning on it.

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See- this is the core of the problem. You guys are sooooo loyal, insane, touchy, or whatever the descriptive word is that comedy is lost about anything Stansbury. Stains is insulting, as are some others. Stands is just a play on his nickname

Stands is a funny nickname, Nothing more, nothing less. Many of us have talked for years about how there was too much "standing around" in our "motion" offense. And there was. Changing Stans to Stands couldnt be any more of an appropriate name for him. It's not insulting- its just funny. And fitting.

Stands was a solid coach at State for most of his tenure.

Good side- he won an SEC title, a couple of SEC Tourneys, kept a consistent team for the most part, and got us in the Dance 6 times in 14 seasons.

Bad side- He almost never won a big game whether it was vs top 10 teams or in the NCAA Tourney, his SOS was almost always in the bottom 1/3 of the SEC, we only made 2 NCAA's his last 7 seasons and there were lots of discipline problems and drama at the end.

We have moved on- it's time for the Stands-Lovers to do the same. But you wont, and we'll keep having this same argument like we did about Cohen until he shut everybody the **** up like many of us said he would. Hopefully Ray does the same