The Jeff Lebby OC Impact

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Originally Posted by Bdawg

I really don?t see how you are making some of these comparisons when some of these coaches are changing schools and conferences. Nothing similar about those schedules. The only one to look at would be OK, imo. But like you said, Ok even changed conferences so there?s not really any relative info in that set either. Too many variables.

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Too many variables agreed. But theme is consistent - Lebby is not a difference maker and is just a passenger.

Y1 Lebby is made OC: UCF -2 Wins, OM +1 Win, OU -4 Wins.

Heupel best year: 2018 UCF or 2024 Tennessee
Kiffin best year: 2025 OM
Venables best year: 2025 OU

Common thread: Lebby was not their OC

So Lebby is well known and accepted here to not do head coaching decisions well. His track record shows his offense is not conducive to bringing the best out of the team around him.

What exactly does he do well again? I don't see it

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Originally Posted by Tater

Too many variables agreed. But theme is consistent - Lebby is not a difference maker and is just a passenger.

Y1 Lebby is made OC: UCF -2 Wins, OM +1 Win, OU -4 Wins.

Heupel best year: 2018 UCF or 2024 Tennessee
Kiffin best year: 2025 OM
Venables best year: 2025 OU

Common thread: Lebby was not their OC

So Lebby is well known and accepted here to not do head coaching decisions well. His track record shows his offense is not conducive to bringing the best out of the team around him.

What exactly does he do well again? I don't see it

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I?m not for or against Lebby right now. If you want to use those stats, I see a drop off after Lebby left each team and then those head coaches did something right to turn it around in the 2nd year after Lebby. I say that?s good on the coaches for straightening the ship. All these stats have no bearing on Lebby, the HC. Lebby, the HC, still has a lot to prove to me, but i can also see that he inherited and absolute dumpster fire in MSU football, a program that is underfunded, understaffed, and roster that has a handful of player that would play on another SEC team, and zero depth that we could hardly run a scout team. Knowing that?s how bad we were, I just can?t put it all on him. I can put on him his in game decisions and team discipline(the stupid penalties from weak discipline). With all that considered, I?m straddling the fence with him and treating this year like year 1 with him. No improvement next year, and he is toast, imo

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Originally Posted by Bdawg

I?m not for or against Lebby right now. If you want to use those stats, I see a drop off after Lebby left each team and then those head coaches did something right to turn it around in the 2nd year after Lebby. I say that?s good on the coaches for straightening the ship. All these stats have no bearing on Lebby, the HC. Lebby, the HC, still has a lot to prove to me, but i can also see that he inherited and absolute dumpster fire in MSU football, a program that is underfunded, understaffed, and roster that has a handful of player that would play on another SEC team, and zero depth that we could hardly run a scout team. Knowing that?s how bad we were, I just can?t put it all on him. I can put on him his in game decisions and team discipline(the stupid penalties from weak discipline). With all that considered, I?m straddling the fence with him and treating this year like year 1 with him. No improvement next year, and he is toast, imo

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I think that's the point though, no? 2-10 year was year 1 of him to learn to do HC things.

He showed no improvement from Y1 to Y2. I'm not even talking about the players. He fostered a lack of discipline that had players cramping in freaking January. He made boneheaded decisions constantly this year. Culminating with allowing a kid to potentially tear his body in half while he is clearly limping. Last game of the year and still several mental mistakes.

I want him to succeed but I just don't see anything he does well as a HC. He doesn't do anything great as an OC. What positives does he really have?

He recruits excellent WRs. He didn't lose the surefire State QB commit (though he killed his year 2 spring practice reps). I really can't think of anything else positive he's done above replacement level as a coach in 2 years.

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Originally Posted by Tater

I think that's the point though, no? 2-10 year was year 1 of him to learn to do HC things.

He showed no improvement from Y1 to Y2. I'm not even talking about the players. He fostered a lack of discipline that had players cramping in freaking January. He made boneheaded decisions constantly this year. Culminating with allowing a kid to potentially tear his body in half while he is clearly limping. Last game of the year and still several mental mistakes.

I want him to succeed but I just don't see anything he does well as a HC. He doesn't do anything great as an OC. What positives does he really have?

He recruits excellent WRs. He didn't lose the surefire State QB commit (though he killed his year 2 spring practice reps). I really can't think of anything else positive he's done above replacement level as a coach in 2 years.

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Everyone can be replaced. Coaches and players. Better have a bigger commitment to football to attract a decent coach. This program needs some stability badly and replacing coaches like we’ve been doing is not how to build a program. Better have a surefire replacement wanting the job that is obviously an upgrade if you pull the trigger, but we know that’s not happening right now. So we might as well pull for the guy and hope our boosters step up in the portal. He he gets a better roster and still can’t go bowling, he should be toast.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Age and experience has taught me to try to avoid game threads as much as possible

29 points...over 400 yards with a shitty OL and a true freshman at QB. I thinks thats impressive.

Anybody that was surprised we would be bad on defense last night hasnt watched us play or is not very intelligent.

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The offense was hot garbage. We scored to make it close at one point only, it was never really in doubt. You watched it, dont play that game. The red zone offense is Mccorvey level bad. Same story over and over.

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Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****

The offense was hot garbage. We scored to make it close at one point only, it was never really in doubt. You watched it, dont play that game. The red zone offense is Mccorvey level bad. Same story over and over.

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Red zone was awful. Think it falls on our OL even more in the redzone because the field has shrunk. They were horrible except when they rushed 4 or less in pass pro. If we don’t improve OL, it will look the same next year.

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Originally Posted by Bdawg

I?m not for or against Lebby right now. If you want to use those stats, I see a drop off after Lebby left each team and then those head coaches did something right to turn it around in the 2nd year after Lebby. I say that?s good on the coaches for straightening the ship. All these stats have no bearing on Lebby, the HC. Lebby, the HC, still has a lot to prove to me, but i can also see that he inherited and absolute dumpster fire in MSU football, a program that is underfunded, understaffed, and roster that has a handful of player that would play on another SEC team, and zero depth that we could hardly run a scout team. Knowing that?s how bad we were, I just can?t put it all on him. I can put on him his in game decisions and team discipline(the stupid penalties from weak discipline). With all that considered, I?m straddling the fence with him and treating this year like year 1 with him. No improvement next year, and he is toast, imo

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Everybody sees it but him. The fact that he is having to out right lie in hopes of gaining people to his cause across multiple boards should be a massive red flag to all that reads his crap.

A lie he just told was that OU just had their best season in wins. Thats a lie. Lebby ended his career there with the exact same record.

Another lie in this thread is that the offense was horrible at OU and people wanted him fired. Not only people, but Ven was firing him and Selmkn bailed him out. The truth is Lebby had the #3 offense in the nation. And nobody was firing him for that.

Another lie is that their offense was better after Lebby. The truth is lebbys offense was #3. The year after 113th. This year 92nd.

Another lie was that OU made the playoffs and Lebby didn't. The fact is the CFP was different then and only 4 teams got in. Ou had the exact same wins under Lebby as they did this year and the only reason OU was in is due to CFP moving to 12 teams.

The truth is not in this guy.

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Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg

OU fans are. The ones I know I should have said. They liked his offense.

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I only got a few OU friends and they were both very glad he left OU.

I don’t know any OU fans personally, but from reading their boards back then they wanted Lebby fired. I think part of that though was an incident with Art Briles that sparked controversy, so I’m not sure if it was more that than actual results. Then again, we had a lot of people wanted Hevesy fired but would gladly welcome him back now seeing how poor our OL has been.

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Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg

Everybody sees it but him. The fact that he is having to out right lie in hopes of gaining people to his cause across multiple boards should be a massive red flag to all that reads his crap.

A lie he just told was that OU just had their best season in wins. Thats a lie. Lebby ended his career there with the exact same record.

Another lie in this thread is that the offense was horrible at OU and people wanted him fired. Not only people, but Ven was firing him and Selmkn bailed him out. The truth is Lebby had the #3 offense in the nation. And nobody was firing him for that.

Another lie is that their offense was better after Lebby. The truth is lebbys offense was #3. The year after 113th. This year 92nd.

Another lie was that OU made the playoffs and Lebby didn't. The fact is the CFP was different then and only 4 teams got in. Ou had the exact same wins under Lebby as they did this year and the only reason OU was in is due to CFP moving to 12 teams.

The truth is not in this guy.

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"Another lie another lie another lie". Dude you have serious issues.

You can't even read what I'm telling you. You look like a ****ing moron touting ypg / ppg as your stats about what makes an offense good. I said that is ****ing kindergarten level understanding of football. I have consistently said that Lebby's offense style is not conducive to complementary football and winning.

And you totally missed where under the 12 team format I gave credit where rankings would have had a team Lebby was on in the playoffs (like 2021 OM). OU would have been bumped for the G5 champion in 2023 since it was top 6 champions until the pac12 was carved up. Shocking that a 10-2 SEC record was seen with higher regard than a 10-2 Big 12 record.

And multiple boards? Not sure where else I've had to talk to you. SPS I have a different name and everyone but the Will Rogers impersonator is in agreement over there about Lebby sucking. If there's another board that has another Tater, then shouts to him for fighting the good fight.

Literally it's you and Todd on here defending Lebby. And Todd is one who has shown himself to be a jack of all trades, master of none (well I can't say that about baseball - Todd knows it there) when it comes to being high on the mountain of Dunning Kruger.

This is the last post. I won't be responding to you again. You posted so weirdly like this when you defended Leach like you were his wife (and I was a Leach supporter through and through). You probably were the Coach13 guy who was clearly Joe Moorhead's wife. And I'd bet you originally wished you could swap bodies with Megan Mullen. Wish harder and give up the internet for New Year's resolution.

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Originally Posted by PGHBulldogBG

I don’t know any OU fans personally, but from reading their boards back then they wanted Lebby fired. I think part of that though was an incident with Art Briles that sparked controversy, so I’m not sure if it was more that than actual results. Then again, we had a lot of people wanted Hevesy fired but would gladly welcome him back now seeing how poor our OL has been.

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Well there was always a strong contingent that HATED the hire from the onset. The Briles wearing OU colors thing incensed them, but Venables was gonna get 2 years out of him. He lost a lot of goodwill in season 1 with the 6-7 showing from the contingent of boosters that wanted him but not enough to fire. Then as 2023 went on - the ones who understand football saw through the gaudy numbers and stats. It's a system that exponentially explodes in your favor when you have a massive talent difference. (73 against Arkansas State, 66 against Tulsa, 69 against a very depleted TCU team) but in the two games that mattered - 34 against Texsa and 24 against Okie Lite - it wasn't there like this elite coordinator was supposed to be. And it wasn't complementing Venables defense at all. It's not a surprise that when you don't have 100+ plays that a defense gets better. And now OU is much better on defense and poised to improve further while having more complementary football.

How it went down in November was that Lebby was encouraged to find something else. I can't speak to the specifics of who all turned us down before getting to Lebby, but I know that the end result is Selmon did OU a solid. Saved them from buyout / firing him. Lebby was not going to be OC in 2024 at OU regardless of that as the power struggle had shifted to those who hate Briles and OU really friggin hates losing Bedlam. So here we are.

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Originally Posted by Tater

Too many variables agreed. But theme is consistent - Lebby is not a difference maker and is just a passenger.

Y1 Lebby is made OC: UCF -2 Wins, OM +1 Win, OU -4 Wins.

Heupel best year: 2018 UCF or 2024 Tennessee
Kiffin best year: 2025 OM
Venables best year: 2025 OU

Common thread: Lebby was not their OC

So Lebby is well known and accepted here to not do head coaching decisions well. His track record shows his offense is not conducive to bringing the best out of the team around him.

What exactly does he do well again? I don't see it

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Come on now this is pretty disingenuous with the 2025 Oklahoma talk. This was Venables best year because they were a top 10 defense in every metric. If Lebby was their OC this year they might still be playing.

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Originally Posted by DEDawg

Come on now this is pretty disingenuous with the 2025 Oklahoma talk. This was Venables best year because they were a top 10 defense in every metric. If Lebby was their OC this year they might still be playing.

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The crux of the point is that Lebby's offense doesn't complement defenses well. OU wouldn't have near the defense they did having to deal with what his offense does to set the defense up poorly as opposed to other systems.

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Originally Posted by Tater

Well there was always a strong contingent that HATED the hire from the onset. The Briles wearing OU colors thing incensed them, but Venables was gonna get 2 years out of him. He lost a lot of goodwill in season 1 with the 6-7 showing from the contingent of boosters that wanted him but not enough to fire. Then as 2023 went on - the ones who understand football saw through the gaudy numbers and stats. It's a system that exponentially explodes in your favor when you have a massive talent difference. (73 against Arkansas State, 66 against Tulsa, 69 against a very depleted TCU team) but in the two games that mattered - 34 against Texsa and 24 against Okie Lite - it wasn't there like this elite coordinator was supposed to be. And it wasn't complementing Venables defense at all. It's not a surprise that when you don't have 100+ plays that a defense gets better. And now OU is much better on defense and poised to improve further while having more complementary football.

How it went down in November was that Lebby was encouraged to find something else. I can't speak to the specifics of who all turned us down before getting to Lebby, but I know that the end result is Selmon did OU a solid. Saved them from buyout / firing him. Lebby was not going to be OC in 2024 at OU regardless of that as the power struggle had shifted to those who hate Briles and OU really friggin hates losing Bedlam. So here we are.

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Ah yes that refreshed my memory a bit and goes along with what I read. Their boosters definitely seemed more vocal about the Briles connection than other schools he was OC for previously. Their defense is elite now so if Venables can find something offensively then he will be successful there. I remember a large portion were happy he left because of the Briles connection and upset about the Texas and OK State games.

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Originally Posted by Tater

"Another lie another lie another lie". Dude you have serious issues.

You can't even read what I'm telling you. You look like a ****ing moron touting ypg / ppg as your stats about what makes an offense good. I said that is ****ing kindergarten level understanding of football. I have consistently said that Lebby's offense style is not conducive to complementary football and winning.

And you totally missed where under the 12 team format I gave credit where rankings would have had a team Lebby was on in the playoffs (like 2021 OM). OU would have been bumped for the G5 champion in 2023 since it was top 6 champions until the pac12 was carved up. Shocking that a 10-2 SEC record was seen with higher regard than a 10-2 Big 12 record.

And multiple boards? Not sure where else I've had to talk to you. SPS I have a different name and everyone but the Will Rogers impersonator is in agreement over there about Lebby sucking. If there's another board that has another Tater, then shouts to him for fighting the good fight.

Literally it's you and Todd on here defending Lebby. And Todd is one who has shown himself to be a jack of all trades, master of none (well I can't say that about baseball - Todd knows it there) when it comes to being high on the mountain of Dunning Kruger.

This is the last post. I won't be responding to you again. You posted so weirdly like this when you defended Leach like you were his wife (and I was a Leach supporter through and through). You probably were the Coach13 guy who was clearly Joe Moorhead's wife. And I'd bet you originally wished you could swap bodies with Megan Mullen. Wish harder and give up the internet for New Year's resolution.

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Man you lied. Period. It sucks that you feel the need to do that. I laid it out and everybody sees it.

As with any coach, you can find something to bitch about without over the top, estrogenic rants that are lies. But you have a mission from God.

Remember YOU stated YOU are the chosen spokesperson for all of the State fans. Yet another lie and incredibly mental thing to insist you are. And no, you were not joking. Thats friggin insane.

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Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg

OU fans are. The ones I know I should have said. They liked his offense.

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Not true at all. I live amongst a bunch of their boosters and they all wanted him gone.

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Originally Posted by Cowbell

Not true at all. I live amongst a bunch of their boosters and they all wanted him gone.

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Prolly just add that dude to your ignore list. I know I did.

Tater, dont drink too much and freak out and get banned.

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Originally Posted by DownwardDawg

Tater, dont drink too much and freak out and get banned.

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I ignored him. Besides we ain't talking politics and I haven't said near what 7 / Todd said to each other the other night lmfao.

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Originally Posted by Tater

The crux of the point is that Lebby's offense doesn't complement defenses well. OU wouldn't have near the defense they did having to deal with what his offense does to set the defense up poorly as opposed to other systems.

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2019 UCF's defense was 41st in scoring, 2020 the year after he left they were 92nd

2021 Ole Miss defense was 51st in scoring, 2022 57th after he left.

2023 OK defense was 48th in scoring 23.5 ppg, 2024 they were 29th at 21.5 ppg the year after he left.

I'm not seeing a correlation.