Our problem is really that we hired Leach

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Originally Posted by Santiago

I learned alot about our some of our fanbase, and some of the football influences at that time, and how it was handled afterward. Winning with a future college football hall of fame coach, was not enough, unless it was their way.

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Well said.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

Easy to say that when it didn't happen.

And Mullen would have won a NC in 18 too.

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should have.....but he would have frozen against Bama IMO......

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

Easy to say that when it didn't happen.

And Mullen would have won a NC in 18 too.

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It's real easy. He won 9 the prior year. Would have had a better team that next year and then Sawyer Robinson would have been hell running Leach's offense. It would be us everyone would be talking about making playoffs instead of ole miss.

Mullen would have went 11-1 in 2018 and made the playoffs. No doubt in my mind. He would have lost to Bama, but no telling what would have happened in the playoffs.


But here we are today..........

Leading up to the EB, maybe even weeks before, there were rumors swirling that Mike was retiring at seasons end.

Obv that didn't happen, tragically, but I do wonder how things would've gone had it shaked out that way....

Who would we've hired? How different would things be? Or would it be pretty similar?

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Originally Posted by DownwardDawg

It's real easy. He won 9 the prior year. Would have had a better team that next year and then Sawyer Robinson would have been hell running Leach's offense. It would be us everyone would be talking about making playoffs instead of ole miss.

Mullen would have went 11-1 in 2018 and made the playoffs. No doubt in my mind. He would have lost to Bama, but no telling what would have happened in the playoffs.


But here we are today..........

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Well the problem with real easy is the logic. First Leach won 8 games. So take that logic, everytime MSU won 8 games the year prior, means the next year we compete for a championship? And that has happened maybe never in MSU history? What facts says we would have had a better team? 2001 we returned the entire offense and was picked to win the SECW but finished last.

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Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

Leading up to the EB, maybe even weeks before, there were rumors swirling that Mike was retiring at seasons end.

Obv that didn't happen, tragically, but I do wonder how things would've gone had it shaked out that way....

Who would we've hired? How different would things be? Or would it be pretty similar?

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Well, the biggest thing is we would have had an athletic director who unless it was a complete moron of an AD there is no way in hell they hire Arnett.

Had Leach survived I don't know how long he would have coached but without an AD in place and a senior laden team and a favorable schedule in 2023 I'm 99% sure we would have asked him to return coming off of a 9 win season.

Honestly, if we hire Selmon I think there I think there is a good chance we still have Lebby as our coach eventually. Who knows? Maybe Lebby starts out at Central Florida and we hire him from them.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

Well the problem with real easy is the logic. First Leach won 8 games. So take that logic, everytime MSU won 8 games the year prior, means the next year we compete for a championship? And that has happened maybe never in MSU history? What facts says we would have had a better team? 2001 we returned the entire offense and was picked to win the SECW but finished last.

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Bill Connelly has a formula that he uses to predict team win totals. Returning production is a major part of that and is considered to be a key factor in success. Which means 2001- and if I remember correctly we lost a TON off of our defense from 2000- is a an outlier although I have a feeling that if I did a deep dive it would show that we didn't return as much as you remember.

So, yes it is pretty logical to assume that if we returned most of our players, had an easier schedule and returned the same coach which would have been the case had Leach not passed away- that we would have had a year as good or better in 2023.

The truth is that it's a combination of Leach's bad recruiting, Leach's passing, and then hiring Arnett.

How much you want to weigh each of those is up for debate, but it's not a single factor that caused all of it. It's the culmination of those 3 things plus Cohen's ineptitude when it came to NIL that set us behind from the start.