When Did The Football Downfall Start

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04-15-2025, 05:52 PM
viverlibre

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Won't. Their fan base understands what it takes to win and rows in the same direction. Ours doesn't. Simple as that.

You can say, "You can't tell me how to spend my money." "A scholarship was enough back in the day" "I won't ever give to players, but I will give to the university" or the thousands of other things I've heard from Mississippi State fans. It comes down to Ole Miss wants to win. From the President down to the $5 fan. They are completely in sync. We are not. There's no consistent message.

Yuup, no one hates MSU, our programs and our town more than our own fans. OM get's off very easy, they don't even have to expend much energy hating us.
04-15-2025, 07:40 PM
bulldawg28

It started when Mullen left. I think Lebby has what it takes to turn things around. I expect improvement this year and a HUGE jump next year.
04-15-2025, 08:39 PM
R2Dawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Won't. Their fan base understands what it takes to win and rows in the same direction. Ours doesn't. Simple as that.

You can say, "You can't tell me how to spend my money." "A scholarship was enough back in the day" "I won't ever give to players, but I will give to the university" or the thousands of other things I've heard from Mississippi State fans. It comes down to Ole Miss wants to win. From the President down to the $5 fan. They are completely in sync. We are not. There's no consistent message.

Agree with some of this. But Leach was a big dividing force at MSU. Leach had went to OM, it would have divided their fanbase too.

The entitlement mentality is what hits a nerve with many MSU folks. OM folks are entitled so they have no issue with selling their soul and giving to entitled athletes. Like it or not this is a big difference in MSU blue collar folks vs Dr/Lawyer rich parents who send their rich kids to OM. I know many MSU fans don't like it but MSU has always been the people's University.
04-15-2025, 09:31 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santiago

You cannot blame it all on people for not blindly throwing money at an organization run by good ole boys.
If you really want to compare - then compare their decision making from the top, and what they have put on the field to generate the excitement.
Also, they do not run down their coach on the interwebs and give him nicknames when he is winning 9 games a year. They fall in line and keep quiet for the most part , especially if winning.
They don't opine for the Billy Brewer RTDF days either. They are progressive and will support any coach that is winning, and in any form or fashion it takes to win.
We on the other hand, have boosters and fans that want it done their way.

I won't give to NIL for a bunch of 18 year olds to have money, when our administration cannot even provide a well run game day experience, make smart hiring decisions, and handle the influence of boosters that caused some of the bad decisions.

Just saying before you keep hounding NIL, there is cleanup to do on our leadership.daily fans and web sites also.

OUTSTANDING POST! You nailed it. Ole Miss has always been a lot more modern in football than MSU where we have fans that are pissed if we don't have the QB under center on every short yardage situation and they don't think it's a real offense unless there is some element of the option. Ole Miss led the SEC in passing offense this past season. They like flash and know that it sells. Even if they lose- hey! We were exciting! MSU has fans that want to win. But they also want to win a certain way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrapGame

$15 million and they STILL didn't make the playoffs.

Exactly. They essentially had the same season we had in 2018. If we had the same season we would have fans demanding that Kiffin be fired for losing to Kentucky and our fans would be talking about how we blew it ad nauseum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulldogcountry1

Yep. Look at the common denominators.

And the boosters that put Cohen and Arnett in charge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrapGame

Let's revisit this in a couple years after Lebby gets going. And if you don't think people in Oxford are not pissed they spent $15 million to NOT make the playoff. They were told this was THE year. Folks took out loans to give to the Grove Initiative. They thought they were playing for a Natty. If the ceiling in Oxford with the best team money can buy is 9-3 there won't be a lot of people forking over retirements and life savings for that.

That's another issue with MSU is fan perception. We go to the Outback Bowl. "What a disappointing season. And the teams we beat really weren't that good." Ole Miss goes to the Outback Bowl. "Gee I wish we would have seasons like that."

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Won't. Their fan base understands what it takes to win and rows in the same direction. Ours doesn't. Simple as that.

You can say, "You can't tell me how to spend my money." "A scholarship was enough back in the day" "I won't ever give to players, but I will give to the university" or the thousands of other things I've heard from Mississippi State fans. It comes down to Ole Miss wants to win. From the President down to the $5 fan. They are completely in sync. We are not. There's no consistent message.

Honestly, I think they just prioritize winning at all costs. They've been cheating since the 1940's at least and probably longer. MSU just has a bad habit about worrying about things that don't matter. And it sabotages the program. 2007 is a good example. That year we beat Alabama, Ole Miss, and won a bowl game and 8 games. And all a lot of our fans talked about is how "lucky we were". What a slap in the face to the players on that team. Just absolutely shitty. Because they didn't like Croom. Have you ever heard an Ole Miss fan talk about how when they beat an 8-4 LSU team that LSU wasn't really good that year? Do you ever hear Ole Miss fans complain about running or passing the ball too much? Do you ever hear them talk about how their win over Alabama in 2015 was a complete fluke? Even though that clearly was a fluke. And do you see their fans take the officials side when the officials screw them over? HELL NO. MSU fans do all of that.

And they do a better job of giving their fans what they want. They want powder blue helmets and uniforms- they get it. At MSU we lie about Nike owning the interlocking MSU and then give the fans a shit sandwich of a logo.
04-15-2025, 09:34 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGHBulldogBG

I have been a state fan for a little over 20 years now. During that time period, the pendulum swung a bit each way between State and Ole Miss. Overall, they were a bit better than us in football and we were a bit better than them in baseball. We were always able to recover from times we were down by hiring 2 good coaches (Leach and Mullen). The true downfall of Miss State football was Leach's passing. Leach helped us recover from the Moorhead disaster and had us in prime position to go 9-4 again in 2023. Not only did his death impact us significantly, but so did Cohen's inability to comprehend the importance of NIL. From what I understand, we started way behind the 8 ball, but that is not surprising because State in general likes to be the last to the party on things due to the nature of our fanbase and unwillingness to make changes. This is the first time I do not have confidence the pendulum will swing back our way. They have passed us big time in football, they are getting ahead in basketball because they have better coaching and talent overall than us, and baseball is probably about the same even though they are better this year. I legit have no idea what to think of Lebby and I gave him a complete pass year 1, although I would feel better if we had not gone blown out at home by Toledo. An SEC program should never lose to a MAC program unless it is some type of crazy good team like Marshall had in the late 90s with Randy Moss and Byron Leftwich. Toledo only won 7 or 8 games so they were not some exception to the rule. Also it is concerning we lost every single SEC game by double digits. If he does not win more than 4 games I will probably be ready for change, although barring something unethical, he will get year 3.

If there is one thing I have learned from watching SEC football for years- teams ALWAYS cycle out. Now, some cycle out quicker than others and some stay really good longer than others. But no one is immune to it. Ole Miss is no exception to that.

Also, I have seen every SEC program lose to a MAC caliber program at least once. No one is completely immune to that either.
04-15-2025, 10:10 PM
Cowbell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santiago

You cannot blame it all on people for not blindly throwing money at an organization run by good ole boys.
If you really want to compare - then compare their decision making from the top, and what they have put on the field to generate the excitement.
Also, they do not run down their coach on the interwebs and give him nicknames when he is winning 9 games a year. They fall in line and keep quiet for the most part , especially if winning.
They don't opine for the Billy Brewer RTDF days either. They are progressive and will support any coach that is winning, and in any form or fashion it takes to win.
We on the other hand, have boosters and fans that want it done their way.

I won't give to NIL for a bunch of 18 year olds to have money, when our administration cannot even provide a well run game day experience, make smart hiring decisions, and handle the influence of boosters that caused some of the bad decisions.

Just saying before you keep hounding NIL, there is cleanup to do on our leadership.daily fans and web sites also.

This is where I'm at. Things will not change until we get fresh leadership at the head honcho position. We need to offer a better experience. My boys are old enough to make the trek back home for games but the experience is blah compared to what it could be.
04-16-2025, 06:53 AM
R2Dawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowbell

This is where I'm at. Things will not change until we get fresh leadership at the head honcho position. We need to offer a better experience. My boys are old enough to make the trek back home for games but the experience is blah compared to what it could be.

They gotta get the juice back in the Junction. The students don't give a rats tail about it now. They killed the Junction after allowing thugs to destroy it one night. This happened under Selmon; he needs to fix it.
04-16-2025, 06:54 AM
R2Dawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

If there is one thing I have learned from watching SEC football for years- teams ALWAYS cycle out. Now, some cycle out quicker than others and some stay really good longer than others. But no one is immune to it. Ole Miss is no exception to that.

Also, I have seen every SEC program lose to a MAC caliber program at least once. No one is completely immune to that either.

Yep - everyone even Bama, UT, UF, UGA, LSU - all. I get the OM panic as they have been good at everything lately but it will not last. MSU success 2014-2021 is what made OM mad and desire to win again.

We will rise again.
04-16-2025, 07:56 AM
StarkVegasSteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by R2Dawg

Agree with some of this. But Leach was a big dividing force at MSU. Leach had went to OM, it would have divided their fanbase too.

The entitlement mentality is what hits a nerve with many MSU folks. OM folks are entitled so they have no issue with selling their soul and giving to entitled athletes. Like it or not this is a big difference in MSU blue collar folks vs Dr/Lawyer rich parents who send their rich kids to OM. I know many MSU fans don't like it but MSU has always been the people's University.

It would not have divided their fan base one bit. They would have all been on board rowing in the same direction. And even if they were not they would keep that to themselves. We have too many small sects of the fanbase that think their voice and message is more important than what the university is trying to promote. And by and large those people are the ones who never come to games, donate zero dollars to NIL or the Bulldog Club, but have some unknown sense of entitlement. Like I said, Ole Miss just gets it. They understand the value of having one consistent message and they are in lockstep on how to spread that message. We try to spread the message and then it is hijacked by the Air Raid Cult, RTGDF club, baseball only fans, Womens basketball cult, etc.
04-16-2025, 08:03 AM
Santiago

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

It would not have divided their fan base one bit. They would have all been on board rowing in the same direction. And even if they were not they would keep that to themselves. We have too many small sects of the fanbase that think their voice and message is more important than what the university is trying to promote. And by and large those people are the ones who never come to games, donate zero dollars to NIL or the Bulldog Club, but have some unknown sense of entitlement. Like I said, Ole Miss just gets it. They understand the value of having one consistent message and they are in lockstep on how to spread that message. We try to spread the message and then it is hijacked by the Air Raid Cult, RTGDF club, baseball only fans, Womens basketball cult, etc.

This exactly is my point. If they had Leach and winning 9 games, their MSU media would not be griping about Leach late to meetings, and their boosters would not be griping he is not winning pretty or handing the ball off like 20 years ago. Heck no, they would embrace it and be spinning it in the media how it is a good thing, and beautiful to win and win that way. They would be on their way to filming a 30 for 30 on Leach in the SEC, and on and on.

That is how you get more average fans into NIL....all rowing and embracing the success.

But when you say it was hijacked by the Air Raid Cult.....that right there you are proving something maybe you did not intend --- anyone supporting Leach in the same loyal way Ole Miss would, gets branded here with a nickname. The people that started that terminology is all coming from the same source of people, and not from different fragments.
All the terms given back then when Leach was coaching came from the same segment of the fanbase. The media used the terms also, because some of them were out of the same segment.

That is the difference for sure with ole miss having Leach and how our fan base behaved having Leach.
04-16-2025, 08:28 AM
StarkVegasSteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santiago

This exactly is my point. If they had Leach and winning 9 games, their MSU media would not be griping about Leach late to meetings, and their boosters would not be griping he is not winning pretty or handing the ball off like 20 years ago. Heck no, they would embrace it and be spinning it in the media how it is a good thing, and beautiful to win and win that way. They would be on their way to filming a 30 for 30 on Leach in the SEC, and on and on.

That is how you get more average fans into NIL....all rowing and embracing the success.

But when you say it was hijacked by the Air Raid Cult.....that right there you are proving something maybe you did not intend --- anyone supporting Leach in the same loyal way Ole Miss would, gets branded here with a nickname. The people that started that terminology is all coming from the same source of people, and not from different fragments.

But they then kept it up after Leach had passed. Instead of getting on board with the new coach, all we heard was, “Arnett hates Leach and threw all the Leach guys away”. And look, I have gone on record to say that KB and BlackSailsDawg(I think that is who it was) were right about everything. But to act like Spurrier Jr or Hollingshead, the two in house candidates, would have been any better is equally as bad. They both sucked at their next stops. The Air Raid that we ran died with Leach. It was not coming back. It never made sense to keep bringing it up.

A prime comparison example, there were A BUNCH of high level OM boosters who loved Matt Luke. I mean Matt was an OM alum, player, starter, etc and they wanted him to work and were not happy with Carter giving him a public and private vote of confidence only to fire him 48 hours after the 19 Egg Bowl. But they kept that to themselves and got on board with Kiffin.

Now am I saying that the Arnett era turns out better and is still going if we have a consistent message and universal support, No. The guy was a god awful HC and was in miles over his head. But we could have all seen that. So instead of the fan base coming together and saying this crap is not working, it became a pissing match of the I told you so Air Raid guys and the RTGDF club. You just do not see that happen at serious programs.
04-16-2025, 08:51 AM
Santiago

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

But they then kept it up after Leach had passed. Instead of getting on board with the new coach, all we heard was, ?Arnett hates Leach and threw all the Leach guys away?. And look, I have gone on record to say that KB and BlackSailsDawg(I think that is who it was) were right about everything. But to act like Spurrier Jr or Hollingshead, the two in house candidates, would have been any better is equally as bad. They both sucked at their next stops. The Air Raid that we ran died with Leach. It was not coming back. It never made sense to keep bringing it up.

A prime comparison example, there were A BUNCH of high level OM boosters who loved Matt Luke. I mean Matt was an OM alum, player, starter, etc and they wanted him to work and were not happy with Carter giving him a public and private vote of confidence only to fire him 48 hours after the 19 Egg Bowl. But they kept that to themselves and got on board with Kiffin.

Now am I saying that the Arnett era turns out better and is still going if we have a consistent message and universal support, No. The guy was a god awful HC and was in miles over his head. But we could have all seen that. So instead of the fan base coming together and saying this crap is not working, it became a pissing match of the I told you so Air Raid guys and the RTGDF club. You just do not see that happen at serious programs.

The "air raid cult" phrase , though, was started while Leach was here. My point is the branding of a group of fans while Leach was here AND winning. But to brand a segment of fans for being enthusiastically loyal to the coach currently coaching us.
To me I think you are skipping that altogether as one of the prime examples of our fan base v. ole miss if they had Leach.
04-16-2025, 09:43 AM
Coach34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

OUTSTANDING POST! Ole Miss led the SEC in passing offense this past season. They like flash and know that it sells.

This is where the disconnect is.

Mississippi led the conference in passing yards per game BECAUSE they were so good in the run game. They were 5th in the SEC in rushing- and ran the ball more than they threw the ball. Because they ran it so well- it helped them lead the SEC in yards per pass- they were the only team that was in double-digits at 10.5 per pass. The run game created chunk pass plays. Mississippi was 4th in passes attempted yet led the SEC in passing. Also- being good in the run game also helped them lead the SEC in completion percentage.

State fans dont want 1990's offensive football. We want a physical offense with innovation. That is Tenn. That is Mississippi. Dropping back and throwing 50 times per game with the RB's catching 150 passes during the season is not fun to watch. It's not exciting. Running an RPO off the counter as you read the safety to decide if you hand off or throw the backside skinny post/square in is exciting
04-16-2025, 10:05 AM
gtowndawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

It would not have divided their fan base one bit. They would have all been on board rowing in the same direction. And even if they were not they would keep that to themselves. We have too many small sects of the fanbase that think their voice and message is more important than what the university is trying to promote. And by and large those people are the ones who never come to games, donate zero dollars to NIL or the Bulldog Club, but have some unknown sense of entitlement. Like I said, Ole Miss just gets it. They understand the value of having one consistent message and they are in lockstep on how to spread that message. We try to spread the message and then it is hijacked by the Air Raid Cult, RTGDF club, baseball only fans, Womens basketball cult, etc.

My goodness yes. I know multiple "Bulldawg" fans that love to complain but haven't been to a game of any kind in 10 years and don't give one cent to program. Are we the only ones with fans like that?
04-16-2025, 11:11 AM
StarkVegasSteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtowndawg

My goodness yes. I know multiple "Bulldawg" fans that love to complain but haven't been to a game of any kind in 10 years and don't give one cent to program. Are we the only ones with fans like that?

We are not. The problem is that somehow those people have become “voices” of our fanbase on social media. It is the same reason I hate Faulk thinking he is speaking for the fanbase. 75% of the time he is not.
04-16-2025, 11:16 AM
Santiago

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

This is where the disconnect is.

Mississippi led the conference in passing yards per game BECAUSE they were so good in the run game. They were 5th in the SEC in rushing- and ran the ball more than they threw the ball. Because they ran it so well- it helped them lead the SEC in yards per pass- they were the only team that was in double-digits at 10.5 per pass. The run game created chunk pass plays. Mississippi was 4th in passes attempted yet led the SEC in passing. Also- being good in the run game also helped them lead the SEC in completion percentage.

State fans dont want 1990's offensive football. We want a physical offense with innovation. That is Tenn. That is Mississippi. Dropping back and throwing 50 times per game with the RB's catching 150 passes during the season is not fun to watch. It's not exciting. Running an RPO off the counter as you read the safety to decide if you hand off or throw the backside skinny post/square in is exciting

I would take that 50 passes game and its 9 win seasons right now!
We griped at a 9 win season because somehow that is not MSU football ***
04-16-2025, 11:17 AM
Santiago

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

We are not. The problem is that somehow those people have become “voices” of our fanbase on social media. It is the same reason I hate Faulk thinking he is speaking for the fanbase. 75% of the time he is not.

Preach it! Faulk has what, 100 guys that keep up with his posts, and he acts like he is a national treasure.
04-16-2025, 11:36 AM
StarkVegasSteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santiago

Preach it! Faulk has what, 100 guys that keep up with his posts, and he acts like he is a national treasure.

I do not mind Robbie honestly. He just thinks he speaks for the fanbase sometimes and thinks everyone agrees lockstep with his opinions. And at the end of the day, he is a fan. Just like us. He is quite irrational and emotional in his thinking a lot of times. That is why he is so sideways with Lemonis because he acts like a fan instead of a journalist.
04-16-2025, 12:24 PM
Coach34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santiago

I would take that 50 passes game and its 9 win seasons right now!
We griped at a 9 win season because somehow that is not MSU football ***

I wouldnt. Never want to watch that shit again.
04-16-2025, 12:42 PM
StarkVegasSteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

I wouldnt. Never want to watch that shit again.

So you'd rather lose your way than win a way that works? Hmm....sounds like someone else. I think you referred to him as Croomhead if I'm not mistaken.

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