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There are no Skenes though. And we have no proven starter behind who comes in (unless Cade stays). Our lineup still needs some help too. Some extra pen pieces would be nice but we're ok if all stay healthy. Two starters and a lineup piece make us a CWS team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
I would say that we have 3 SEC pitcher prospects. Being guided by numbers and actual performance, you could argue that MSU may only have 3 pitchers an above-average SEC team would care to take and most likely, not to be startersQuote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
JC, Loftin, Dohm, and maybe Holcombe, assuming Nixon and Cade go pro. Were is Pico?
Extraordinary that after all these great recruiting classes, 3 straight Omahas, and a 6th year coach... MSU has no healthy and performing Junior Class of pitchers to speak of. You have a walk-on Junior and that is it.
Like l've said several times, we shouldn't be in this situation. It's all speculation going into next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer
What about LSU- where were their returning SP's? UPig had one returning SEC SP. Auburn's top 3 SP's didnt pitch for them in 2022. Almost nobody in the SEC has a bunch of returning SP's because of the draft at age 21Quote:
Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer
It's that way for most teams. It's not just usQuote:
Originally Posted by basedog
I can?t wait to see the battle for 14th place next year between State, Ole Miss, and LSU. It?s gonna be epic to see which previous NC gets that 12th and final Hoover spot!
LSU is buying them, special case that few others can emulate. For others 3 years is all a good to top-level SEC pitcher is going to give you. That's been the standard for a few decades now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
But unless you are Vandy, you need the Junior year to max the capability of your prospects.
If this past year's group of freshmen pitchers are anything close to what they are supposed to be, we should be much much improved in 2024 on the mound. We will see.
But that's my point- with the draft age at 21 now- you have guys leaving after 2 years. We're gonna lose Loo and Jordan to next year's draftQuote:
Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer
Loo has the stuff to be a legit Friday guy, especially as a Righty. He just needs to learn what it takes to succeed at this level, which is cutting out the mental lapses. This past season, he would have 2 innings where he made the hitters look silly and then the next inning totally fall apart. This is where we are hoping the new PC makes a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
Depends on the birth day. Most still do 3 years to 21.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Also, CJ and Jordan prospects were not even collegiate players in the 80s and 90s. I recall losing players drafted in the 30th round even in great MSU periods. MLB is giving colleges players that never used to wear school colors. Draft is shorter and they closed down many minor league teams.
Several organizations shut down their satellite MiLB development locations. But the current best team in baseball, the Atlanta Braves still have most of their Feeders intact. They just don?t own those teams any more. But they still have 2 Latin American player development locations, Rookie League, A, AA, and AAA locations along with their rehab and development center in Orlando. The Head Groundskeeper (if he is still there)at that Orlando complex used to be the Head GK at Pearl. Last I heard he was over all 5 fields and the training pods in Orlando.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer
So, they still want the best High School players in their Minor League training facilities. Especially the young pitchers.
He's got to get some dog in him tooQuote:
Originally Posted by AlSwearengen
Well now to be fair, most of our Freshmen pitchers in 2023 threw as many pitches in 2 innings as they threw in an entire 7 inning high school game against guys who would swing at anything close because HS umps would a 2 meter by 1 meter strike zone while the next one would have a 12 inch x 12 inch strike zone.
That is why Baseball needs off field evaluators that can find a guy and then watch multiple games with different umps and different levels of competition.
LSU- returned Ty Floyd (3.77 ERA, 10 starts, 59IP) and Blake Money (5.31 ERA, 12 starts, 61IP). They went out and got Skenes and Hurd from the Portal to go with FLoyd for the rotation- they didn't say "we'll just develop some guys on staff and keep using Money" like you're acting like we should be fine with doing for Loo, Loftin, and Holcombe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Upig- returned SMith (4.66 ERA, 15 starts, 77IP) and McEntire (2.59 ERA, 8 starts, 48IP). For 23 they rode McEntire for more innings (his ERA took a dive to 5.07) and added a Juco guy in Hollan and a Portal guy in Adcock to make up the rest of their starts. Again, they didnt' say "Well we've got 3 talented Fr I'm sure they'll be fine as starters next year".
Auburn- You're making my point. They went out and got 3 transfers to make the rotation- they didn't rely on already on the roster talent to make a hug jump and fill those roles.
Lets look at who State returns: Jurrangelo (8.1 ERA, 13 starts, 50IP), Dohm (4.07 ERA, 2 starts, 42IP), Holcombe (8.25 ERA, 3 starts, 36IP), Siary (7.07 ERA, 3 starts, 28IP), Loftin (3.08 ERA, 5 starts, 26IP). There's more but we're getting into sup 25IP last year so they're kinda irrelevant.
Basically you want to say "every SEC team is in the same boat as us- the rotation is made up of new guys each year" but you're ignoring that those teams don't rely on their roster alone- they add transfers. And they NEVER rely on guys who had 8+ ERAs the year before to make a huge jump in the offseason.
Do you not see how awful this comparison is to our competition? We NEED 2 SEC starters via the Portal. That's what the comps to the 3 teams you list say we need
It's not a bad comparison when our guys haven't announced yet. You'd have to assume we aren't adding arms to our rotation like you mentioned. We're going to add arms.Quote:
Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us
Nobody has said we shouldnt add an arm or two. I have said numerous times we need to add at least one quality (meaning SEC starter level) arm. But I also believe we are in great shape with the talent we already have. We get Loo, Holcombe, and Loftin throwing strikes more consistently and we will be in business. Then throw Simmons, Auger, Dohm, Siary, and more to the mix. Add a couple more arms from the portal and we should be in great shape.Quote:
Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us
We're adding arms tooQuote:
Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us
Hey, people can't melt about football recruiting so the fanbase needs something to melt about.Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
I'm aware we're trying to add arms, the point of my post was to say we NEED to add arms. Stud starter level arms. Plural.
C34 keeps trying to have his cake and eat it too- saying we're going to add arms, but also saying our Fr are so talented we'll be fine riding with them. He's said that multiple times in this thread alone
Look up- he said regarding our pitching rotation "it's like that for most teams". My post shows nobody is in as bad of a situation as we are- they either have returning guys with better numbers than ours OR they get quality arms from the Portal. The best do both. Thus far we have neither. Even if we land Holman we'll definitely need another starter