Braves

Gonna have to encase all the balls and programs I got Acuna, Albies and Gohara to sign for me last year. Funny having to have Goh having to interpret for acuna when talking to them..

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Nope. Bautista is starter in a few days... no platoon. Snit addressed this the other day. Pretty sad... Camargo has 448 PA at AAA and mlb last 2 years, and has slashed .296/.339/.477. He has an fWAR of 1.3 in 86 games now during this time period... that is pace for 2.4. Definitely not great, but pretty solid.

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Originally Posted by parabrave

Myself and about 99.9% of braves fans agree with you and are saying WTF Braves. Even now Chip saying Joey Bats will be our saving grace. This was a f'd up transaction. The last thing this team needed was another infielder, esp an old guy.. What part of OUR BP SUCKS don't they understand.

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I don't get the Bautista hate. I wanted the Giants to sign him. He only costs 2 mill and he's a good player. He'll hit 20-25 bombs and get on base a lot.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

I don't get the Bautista hate. I wanted the Giants to sign him. He only costs 2 mill and he's a good player. He'll hit 20-25 bombs and get on base a lot.

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Part of my hate is benching Camargo in favor of Bautista.

I said this a couple of days ago:

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Originally Posted by Bulldog1

Yep. Seems like a head scratcher by upper management. I mean Camargo gets called up to sit on the bench, but they sign this retread strike out machine, has been washed up shell of his former self baseball player, Bautista- and he is the big dog at 3B? Hope they show me to be wrong, but I doubt it.

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I just feel like we should see what Camargo can do. But, Bautista is a decent bench bat.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

I don't get the Bautista hate. I wanted the Giants to sign him. He only costs 2 mill and he's a good player. He'll hit 20-25 bombs and get on base a lot.

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Bautista had an fWAR of -0.5 playing OF with an ops of .674. He is now moving to 3b. 20 homeruns mean little when you slug .366 and strike out 25% of the time. Hopefully he finds the fountain of youth, but I doubt it

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

I don't get the Bautista hate. I wanted the Giants to sign him. He only costs 2 mill and he's a good player. He'll hit 20-25 bombs and get on base a lot.

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They have 2 players in front of him right now with one of them playing lights out. They need help in other areas.

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Originally Posted by parabrave

They have 2 players in front of him right now with one of them playing lights out. They need help in other areas.

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What area?? Bull pen? Front line starter? That's about it...but this is a low risk high reward opportunity. Admittedly I don't think camargo is an every day guy.

Signing Bautista will have zero affect on their ability to acquire one of their major needs

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Originally Posted by shoeless joe

What area?? Bull pen? Front line starter? That's about it...but this is a low risk high reward opportunity. Admittedly I don't think camargo is an every day guy. JMO

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Camargo very well may not be an everyday guy, but Bautista at 3b is much more of a question mark than camargo. The worst part of this is we just gave the job to him. He will be promoted and given a starting role just bc of his name bc he is not the same player as 3 seasons ago

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Camargo very well may not be an everyday guy, but Bautista at 3b is much more of a question mark than camargo. The worst part of this is we just gave the job to him. He will be promoted and given a starting role just bc of his name bc he is not the same player as 3 seasons ago

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Don't necessarily disagree but if a few weeks down the road he's stinkin it up then he'll get DFA'd and the experiment cost very little. On the flip side he's rejuvenated and gives some solid production and still didn't cost much of anything and, I repeat, does not affect the ability to make a move that will be much needed to compete either this yr or next.

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Originally Posted by shoeless joe

Don't necessarily disagree but if a few weeks down the road he's stinkin it up then he'll get DFA'd and the experiment cost very little. On the flip side he's rejuvenated and gives some solid production and still didn't cost much of anything and, I repeat, does not affect the ability to make a move that will be much needed to compete either this yr or next.

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Yeah, you're right, but I would feel much better about this if we made Bautista at least tear up AAA to earn a promotion. He has sucked so far. I would absolutely love to be wrong though.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Bautista had an fWAR of -0.5 playing OF with an ops of .674. He is now moving to 3b. 20 homeruns mean little when you slug .366 and strike out 25% of the time. Hopefully he finds the fountain of youth, but I doubt it

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Get off WAR already. It's Jose Bautista.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Get off WAR already. It's Jose Bautista. He's way better than Carwhothe****go.

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Throw out WAR then...
k rate = 25%
Slugging % = .366
Obp = .308
Avg = .203
Struck out career high 170 times; 116 was previous

Camargo...
K rate = 19.9%
Slugging = .452
Obp = .331
Avg = .299

Play the Phillies tomorrow. I'll have to set the DVR to a 3 hour extension. LOL.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Nope. Bautista is starter in a few days... no platoon. Snit addressed this the other day. Pretty sad... Camargo has 448 PA at AAA and mlb last 2 years, and has slashed .296/.339/.477. He has an fWAR of 1.3 in 86 games now during this time period... that is pace for 2.4. Definitely not great, but pretty solid.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Throw out WAR then...
k rate = 25%
Slugging % = .366
Obp = .308
Avg = .203
Struck out career high 170 times; 116 was previous

Camargo...
K rate = 19.9%
Slugging = .452
Obp = .331
Avg = .299

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1 year and you're skewing the stats. How many ABs? What level is Carmango playing at? Bautista was hurt some last year. I kept him as a keeper for five straight years. Besides last year he hit at an All-Star level. What are Bautista's numbers the previous five seasons before last? Before last year he was leading the MLB in total homeruns for a good stretch of time. Like half a decade.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

1 year and you're skewing the stats. How many ABs? What level is Carmango playing at? Bautista was hurt some last year. I kept him as a keeper for five straight years. Besides last year he hit at an All-Star level. What are Bautista's numbers the previous five seasons before last? Before last year he was leading the MLB in total homeruns for a good stretch of time. Like half a decade.

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Camargo mlb stats since last season...
220 PA .296/.332/.458 20.7 k%

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

I don't get the Bautista hate. I wanted the Giants to sign him. He only costs 2 mill and he's a good player. He'll hit 20-25 bombs and get on base a lot.

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He is no longer a good player.

They probably told Bautista that if he went ahead and signed a minor league deal it would be a formality that he'll be able to get called up and get the chance to play at 3B every day. And the Braves are looking at it like this: 1. if he can provide big time power batting 5th or 6th and not be awful at 3B then he'll remain the starter. 2. if he sucks like he did last year then he's one hell of a pinch hitter for our team. I think the latter ends up happening and Camargo is the starting 3rd baseman the second half of the season. If that's the case and Buatista is a pinch hitter, that's a big plus over Culberson or Peter Bourjos.

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Originally Posted by Matty Dispatch

They probably told Bautista that if he went ahead and signed a minor league deal it would be a formality that he'll be able to get called up and get the chance to play at 3B every day. And the Braves are looking at it like this: 1. if he can provide big time power batting 5th or 6th and not be awful at 3B then he'll remain the starter. 2. if he sucks like he did last year then he's one hell of a pinch hitter for our team. I think the latter ends up happening and Camargo is the starting 3rd baseman the second half of the season. If that's the case and Buatista is a pinch hitter, that's a big plus over Culberson or Peter Bourjos.

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The problem with tucker and Bautista as bench bats is they are both very limited in where they can play in the field.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

The problem with tucker and Bautista as bench bats is they are both very limited in where they can play in the field.

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But having Tucker as a lefty and Bautista on the bench gives you power from both sides. I'd keep Culberson because he can play every infield position and release Flahrty (assuming he's going to return to his career .221 average). Markakis, Inciarte and Acuna are just going to have to play every day. And I'm sure Acuna could play CF if need be and Tucker a corner OF position as well as Buatista.

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Originally Posted by Matty Dispatch

But having Tucker as a lefty and Bautista on the bench gives you power from both sides. I'd keep Culberson because he can play every infield position and release Flahrty (assuming he's going to return to his career .221 average). Markakis, Inciarte and Acuna are just going to have to play every day. And I'm sure Acuna could play CF if need be and Tucker a corner OF position as well as Buatista.

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Sounds like a plan

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Originally Posted by Matty Dispatch

But having Tucker as a lefty and Bautista on the bench gives you power from both sides. I'd keep Culberson because he can play every infield position and release Flahrty (assuming he's going to return to his career .221 average). Markakis, Inciarte and Acuna are just going to have to play every day. And I'm sure Acuna could play CF if need be and Tucker a corner OF position as well as Buatista.

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There is a shift that must happen in the way teams view players like Flaherty. Instead of looking at him and saying, 'Wow, he's batting .300+, we need to keep him in the lineup while he's hitting this well,' we need to look at him and say, 'Wow, we got 21 games of .300+ out of Ryan Flaherty, how fortunate we are!' and stop playing him before we get the cold spell that brings him back down to career norms. If you wait until he falls back to where he's been, then you got nothing beneficial out of him. You just got more games of a normal Ryan Flaherty instead of just the good stuff.

Hopefully we're shifting in the way we view that, but we'll just have to see.